Steering Response

Sixer Stang said:

Wouldn't a linear spring be better than a progressive one? Also is there a reason for front springs having a significantly higher spring rate than the rear? Wouldn't a similar spring rate at all 4 corners provide a more balanced feel?

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I'm with ddd on the matter of linear vs progressive springing and damping them.

Handling balance involves quite a bit more than just spring rates taken in isolation from everything else.

There is a "flat ride" approach to choosing front and rear spring rates in some specific relation to each other, but that's mainly for reasons of ride quality in street driving. With damper rates more appropriate to track driving, this becomes much less important.


Norm

I'm less convinced concerning the benefits of progressive springs mainly by the way they're normally presented in the advertising copy.


Norm

Ok so coilovers seem to be the way to go instead of lowering springs. Does anybody have any experience with the SR Performance V2 kit or ST Suspension kit? Both are around $1,000 I'm curious if they're good quality. I don't need the best of the best, the purpose is to just have fun with it but I do want to make sure I'm buying good quality components.

There's no way you're getting a decent set of coilovers for under $2000, and even that is pretty cheap. Speaking from experience, this is not the place to cut corners. I used Koni Yellows (which are actually decent budget dampers) for 1-2 years, and it was a night-and-day difference when I switched to MCS coilovers. The ride quality was WAY better even with stiffer springs, and the car was easier to drive. However, the conversion cost me ~$4500, and I spent another few hundred dollars in extra springs to tweak the setup from there. I know it's tempting to save a few pennies here, but you really get what you pay for when it comes to dampers. Springs are cheap.

I'd put coilovers somewhere out there in the long-range plan, like after you've accumulated significant seat time at least at the intermediate level (preferably advanced) when you'll be better equipped to notice what the car may be trying to tell you. Keep in mind that "I'll get coilovers" isn't as simple as saying it, and having track time in the car that you're going to put them on should put you in a better position to choose, spec out, and fine-tune them to best suit you.

On edit, I agree with ddd again. I wouldn't expect much from the sort of bargain-basement coilovers that are mainly sold to the overly-lowered stanced-out crowd.


Norm

Thanks for all the info. Certainly has helped alot. I think I'll just buy a set of stiffer springs to replace the worn out stock ones and I'll buy some better wheels and tires and run everything as is and probably will look into coilovers once I progress more as a driver.

On a side note, a smaller diam tire will also lower the CG of the car. Ditto with lowering the eng. Steeda eng mounts allow for stock- 1/4 - 1/2 - 3/4 inch eng lowering.

Progressive vs linear springs is mostly poppy ... lowering springs are just way too soft for any real track / cornering use. Lowering springs are FOR LOOKS. Its that simple. Don't overthink it.



And that's OK - the S197 Mustangs look like freagin 4x4 trucks from the factory. Lower them, deal with the lack of bump travel in your struts and shocks you just lost, and be happy. Don't do this if you care about handling, of course, but many people even in this sub-forum obviously don't.



As many of us here know, all of the lowering spring companies post made up, bogus spring rate numbers. Again - don't overthink this stuff. Look at the chart above, which are clearly "progressive" springs. Yet the graph of the actual rates looks damn near linear... with just the slightest hint of a curve. See? It doesn't make much of difference. Soft, soft, soft.



These lowering spring makers / resellers either don't know how to properly measure spring rates, or more likely, they know that their springs are too soft to matter and just test them near coil bind - to get a fake number they like. Just don't worry about it - get a setup that "looks cool" for cruising.



But if you actually want to cure the brake dive, roll, squat and heave of these marshmallow suspended Mustangs to make for better track use, then you're going to need to make BIG spring rate changes. And to deal with that you are going to need REAL dampers. Not twin tubes, not eBay shocks.



Again - unless you are just "doing it for the 'gram" and want a super damped "Stance". Then go for those $500 eBay coils and hang with your bros!

For an inexpensive coilover solution, the ST XTA setup works very well. You get decent spring rates (400lb front and 300lb rear), single adjustable shocks and pretty good caster/camber plates. Definitely not MCS quality shocks or Vorshlag camber plates but very workable and much better than lowering springs and Koni yellows.

gregb said:

For an inexpensive coilover solution, the ST XTA setup works very well. You get decent spring rates (400lb front and 300lb rear), single adjustable shocks and pretty good caster/camber plates. Definitely not MCS quality shocks or Vorshlag camber plates but very workable and much better than lowering springs and Koni yellows.

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At the amounts of lowering advertised (1.2" - 2.4" front, 1.4" - 2.2" rear) they probably are better than yellows with typical lowering spring stiffnesses (2/3 of the rates you posted, or less). At just under half those lowering amounts, maybe not, or at least not by as much.

The word 'street' is still prominent in the advertising (Premium, Performance Street, per Tire Rack), and you would have to be good with at least the minimum amounts of lowering.


Norm

The local race shop recommended HSD coil overs as a good budget option, any comments on them vs bilstiens and a lowering spring?


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Norm Peterson said:

At the amounts of lowering advertised (1.2" - 2.4" front, 1.4" - 2.2" rear) they probably are better than yellows with typical lowering spring stiffnesses (2/3 of the rates you posted, or less). At just under half those lowering amounts, maybe not, or at least not by as much.

The word 'street' is still prominent in the advertising (Premium, Performance Street, per Tire Rack), and you would have to be good with at least the minimum amounts of lowering.


Norm

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Tire rack may use those terms but the ST website does not... they are listed as a performance solution. They were Sam Strano's recommendation for entry level coilovers.