Ethanol plants closing.

Over the past year, multiple ethanol plants have closed because of falling gas prices. Now with the economic slowdown from the virus, it’s only making the situation worse. I, of course, recently converted my 05 to run ethanol. I did this because of the power gains and the fact I have multiple gas stations within 2 miles that sell E85. Looks like that may change.
https://www.agweb.com/article/ethanol-plants-are-verge-shuttering-production-heres-why

Here they are saying something different. Some plants are stopping production of E85 to produce hand sanitizer.

jewc75 said:

Here they are saying something different. Some plants are stopping production of E85 to produce hand sanitizer.

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Just because “they” are saying it doesn’t make it true. But if it is, that’s because many plants have all ready closed. At least 10 in 2019.

“At least 10 ethanol plants have closed over the past year and others have reduced production in states including Iowa, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin, according to Chris Bliley, vice president of regulatory affairs for Growth Energy, an association of ethanol producers.
From here. https://www.iowapublicradio.org/post/usda-numbers-confirm-declining-demand-ethanol

And those plants don’t produce E85. They produce ethanol that the gasoline companies buy in bulk and then blend into all grades of pump gas. Any increase in production for sanitizer, will be very short lived. BTW, breweries are producing ethanol for sanitizers also. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/19/us/distilleries-virus-hand-sanitizer.amp.html

And a warning to everyone. Not all sanitizers are created the same.
https://www.propublica.org/article/coronavirus-hand-sanitizers-cdc-recommended-alcohol/amp

And as far as hands are concerned, the CDC recommendation is plain ol’ soap and water. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/cleaning-disinfection.html

Hand sanitizer is bull shit. It's the last option I reach for.

E85 has vanished from all but two gas stations in the Rochester NY area.

Corn lobby

Most ethanol plants would be closed if it was not for government funding. It is not a profitable business at this point. I live in farm country of MN and I have several plants within a 50 mile radius, but hardly any gas stations in my area even carry it. We've tried it in my wife's Flex Fuel Grand Marquis and yes it burns ok, but she had to fill her tank twice as often which she hated. More power is about the only benefit at this point. Storing my cars for 6 months every winter I would have to drain my fuel system completely. Gasoline I throw in some Stabil I'm good to go.
Gas price was down to $1.79 here 2 days ago.

E85 has always been sketchy IMO. It was supposed to be "cleaner" but (if memory serves) it raises the NOx levels and that's what causes smog. It gets worse fuel economy and is no cheaper to run than regular fuel with more trips to the pump. The only good thing about it is the higher octane, which most cars just don't need. Most people just never "bought" into the idea. So it failed.

JJ427R said:

Most ethanol plants would be closed if it was not for government funding. It is not a profitable business at this point. I live in farm country of MN and I have several plants within a 50 mile radius, but hardly any gas stations in my area even carry it. We've tried it in my wife's Flex Fuel Grand Marquis and yes it burns ok, but she had to fill her tank twice as often which she hated. More power is about the only benefit at this point. Storing my cars for 6 months every winter I would have to drain my fuel system completely. Gasoline I throw in some Stabil I'm good to go.
Gas price was down to $1.79 here 2 days ago.

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More power and safer combustion under boost is the whole idea of it.
There is no problem storing ethanol that long if the tank is full. A full tank eliminates condensation. And actually it’s the gas that oxidizes and goes bad not the ethanol, so just add the Stabil.

Ethanol used to be a main source of fuel. Oil companies ruined the ethanol economy long ago, in fact in large they are still standing there with their foot on the tigers throat.

WNYGT5-0 said:

Ethanol used to be a main source of fuel. Oil companies ruined the ethanol economy long ago, in fact in large they are still standing there with their foot on the tigers throat.

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Of course they did. While the economic and political aspects of biofuels can be debated, the fact is, there is a humongous amount of disinformation being put out about E10 and E85. While NA cars do not benefit very much from E85. Boosted cars love the stuff.

Laga said:

While NA cars do not benefit very much from E85. Boosted cars love the stuff.

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Susie Homemaker running the kids around, John Q. (who isn't a car guy) and most of the regular driving public DO NOT care what boosted engines like. They only care about the perceived cost of fuel out of the pocket, availability and that the car starts and takes them to their destination with reasonable fuel economy.

Look at the large numbers of Ecoboost cars Ford has on the road now. Logic says they would love all that E85. And they would, but they also work just fine with 87 octane because Ford made the EFI system so adaptive. Let's say E85 gives the driver another 20 hp (it doesn't in stock trim/tune). 95% of today's drivers don't know the difference between 300 and 320 hp. Since 87 is everywhere and we are creatures of habit, it's just easier to buy 87 when we need fuel where ever we find it when we are low enough to feel we need to fill up. It's easy to blame "big oil", but it's not "big oil". It's a product looking for a market and the market is not really looking for, nor in need of it.

The market that is looking for it is small. Too small for most stations to justify the cost of a tank to house it until it's needed for a buyer when that tank can hold easily and quickly sold product.

Ethanol as anything other than a racing fuel is total shit. It's more expensive to produce than a gallon of gas (if not for the corn lobby and tax-wasting subsidies), it is caustic and bad for older vehicles, and it costs more energy to produce a single gallon than is contained in that gallon, so that means it CAUSES pollution.

Fuck ethanol and fuck the corn lobby. That entire subsidized clusterfuck is a relic from the Cold War and needs to die.

Sky Render said:

Ethanol as anything other than a racing fuel is total shit. It's more expensive to produce than a gallon of gas (if not for the corn lobby and tax-wasting subsidies), it is caustic and bad for older vehicles, and it costs more energy to produce a single gallon than is contained in that gallon, so that means it CAUSES pollution.

Fuck ethanol and fuck the corn lobby. That entire subsidized clusterfuck is a relic from the Cold War and needs to die.

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Ethanol is not caustic nor is it corrosive.

Laga said:

Ethanol is not caustic nor is it corrosive.

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You're right; poor choice of words. It attracts water from the air, which can cause rust in older parts, and it can break down some types of rubber.

Seems to screw up old rubber hoses though.

Not the same but Tried biodiesel in our f350 10 -15 years ago and ruined all the rubber in the fuel system mechanic said it was lye that was added

Cars using E85 require SS fuel filters, SS fuel rails, SS injectors, etc. 35% redux in mileage

JJ427R said:

Most ethanol plants would be closed if it was not for government funding.

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It is not direct funding like other subsidies which is what makes it more irritating. At least with other incentives we can see the direct market impact in value or cost. For example, the wind subsidies provide 2.4 cents per kW of produced electricity. Ethanol is a blend directive, meaning a certain amount ethanol is required to be blended with fuel. Thus there is no way to know the real value of the market impact of the government intervention and requirement. Let the markets work. Also all the other things that were mentioned. We shouldn't burn our food.

Pentalab said:

Cars using E85 require SS fuel filters, SS fuel rails, SS injectors, etc. 35% redux in mileage

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Only if you are going to let the car sit for over six months with the gas cap off. Otherwise, no. And yes it’s less mileage. More like 25-30%. But it’s much cheaper than 93 octane. 33% cheaper. So after I converted, I save around 5% in costs.

Laga said:

Only if you are going to let the car sit for over six months with the gas cap off. Otherwise, no. And yes it’s less mileage. More like 25-30%. But it’s much cheaper than 93 octane. 33% cheaper. So after I converted, I save around 5% in costs.

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Points well taken. Then the hassle of gassing up more often....pita.
Fuel prices have dropped like a rock across Canada. A barrel of oil in Alberta now sells for $6.45 US funds. They are giving it away.