Ethanol plants closing.

Gas is $1.59 a gallon here in MN this morning, avg price of e85 in my area right now is $1.80.

Here’s the problem. As I stated earlier there is a lot of disinformation about ethanol in fuel. Just look at the responses in this short thread.
Many of the answers are complicated and nuanced. Ethanol as a fuel began as octane booster substitute in the late ‘70’s when lead was removed from gas. I remember buying Gasahol in ‘79. With no problems btw.
It’s different than gas and can’t be treated the same ways. You wouldn’t put gasoline in a Diesel engine, because it’s not designed for it. Same as putting ethanol in an old car or truck. I can also make the comparison to milk. You can put a bottle of milk in the refrigerator and not touch it for a week, come back and have a drink with no problem. Would you do that if you left it out at room temp for the same amount of time? No. You have to treat it differently. As far as the subsidies go, according to Wiki, since 1980 ethanol producers have revived $45 billion in subsidies, tax breaks for other users add to this but I can’t find a definite amount, and that’s a big number. But guess what? The dairy farmers receive $22 billion a year. And they are filing for bankruptcies everyday. Farmers have received $28 billion so far in bailouts just from trump’s tariffs in the past 18 months. So why all the hate for ethanol? When the price of oil goes back up, and it will. It’s going to hurt the USA and Canada not to have these plants. With the HUGE amount of corn that’s produced in North America, there will be an over supply of corn and the price will fall. Small farms will fail, more bailouts for the big ones.

Laga said:

Here’s the problem. As I stated earlier there is a lot of disinformation about ethanol in fuel. Just look at the responses in this short thread.
Many of the answers are complicated and nuanced. Ethanol as a fuel began as octane booster substitute in the late ‘70’s when lead was removed from gas. I remember buying Gasahol in ‘79. With no problems btw.
It’s different than gas and can’t be treated the same ways. You wouldn’t put gasoline in a Diesel engine, because it’s not designed for it. Same as putting ethanol in an old car or truck. I can also make the comparison to milk. You can put a bottle of milk in the refrigerator and not touch it for a week, come back and have a drink with no problem. Would you do that if you left it out at room temp for the same amount of time? No. You have to treat it differently. As far as the subsidies go, according to Wiki, since 1980 ethanol producers have revived $45 billion in subsidies, tax breaks for other users add to this but I can’t find a definite amount, and that’s a big number. But guess what? The dairy farmers receive $22 billion a year. And they are filing for bankruptcies everyday. Farmers have received $28 billion so far in bailouts just from trump’s tariffs in the past 18 months. So why all the hate for ethanol? When the price of oil goes back up, and it will. It’s going to hurt the USA and Canada not to have these plants. With the HUGE amount of corn that’s produced in North America, there will be an over supply of corn and the price will fall. Small farms will fail, more bailouts for the big ones.

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What do you run for engine oil?

The problem with ethanol is its inefficient to real gas and it made the price of beef skyrocket! Corn feeds cattle not gas tanks. As soon as government subsidizes corn for bullshit fuel it raises beef feed and meat prices go way up

WNYGT5-0 said:

What do you run for engine oil?

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Amsoil 0W20

Badd GT said:

The problem with ethanol is its inefficient to real gas and it made the price of beef skyrocket! Corn feeds cattle not gas tanks. As soon as government subsidizes corn for bullshit fuel it raises beef feed and meat prices go way up

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I got news for you. it ain`t the ethanol
$38 BILLION A YEAR for meat and dairy.
https://medium.com/@laletur/should-governments-subsidy-the-meat-and-dairy-industries-6ce59e68d26

Plus, from here, https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10339

"The amount of corn used for ethanol production increased substantially between 2001 and 2010, as nearly all gasoline was transitioned to 10% ethanol. The increased ethanol seems to have come from the increase in overall corn production and a small decrease in corn used for animal feed and other residual uses. The amount of corn used for other uses, including human consumption, has stayed fairly consistent from year to year. This long-term trend even held true during the drought of 2012, when production, ethanol usage, and feed usage all decreased substantially but other usage held steady. From 2013, the trend remains consistent with production and usage remaining relatively constant."

There is always more than one reason why things happen. You just have to look for them.

Laga said:

Amsoil 0W20

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Why such a light weight oil in an alky engine?

Laga said:

I got news for you. it ain`t the ethanol
$38 BILLION A YEAR for meat and dairy.
https://medium.com/@laletur/should-governments-subsidy-the-meat-and-dairy-industries-6ce59e68d26

Plus, from here, https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10339

"The amount of corn used for ethanol production increased substantially between 2001 and 2010, as nearly all gasoline was transitioned to 10% ethanol. The increased ethanol seems to have come from the increase in overall corn production and a small decrease in corn used for animal feed and other residual uses. The amount of corn used for other uses, including human consumption, has stayed fairly consistent from year to year. This long-term trend even held true during the drought of 2012, when production, ethanol usage, and feed usage all decreased substantially but other usage held steady. From 2013, the trend remains consistent with production and usage remaining relatively constant."

There is always more than one reason why things happen. You just have to look for them.

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Wrong.... this was federally mandated by Bush Jr. all the way down to the use of corn instead of more efficient sources such as sugar beets and even kelp and algae.

The argument that ethanol production is taking a piece of corn out of someone's mouth is ridiculous. This country still has millions of acres of land that is been sitting fallow for decades. If ethanol production were to end, it would not have a lasting effect on corn available for food. More land would simply be furloughed. And the price of corn would plummet, and more farms would either get more subsidy money or go under. I say let the market decide. Yes government money is going to go to farmers. Better them than the already lined pockets of the scum bag politicians that caused the problem in the first place, many years ago.

I do wish E85 was available everywhere. In SE Texas I know of only one station that has it. It's around 40 miles from my house. The only time I'm any where near it is when I go to the shop for dyno time.

Wake the fuck up, when ever the government subsidizes anything you get gross price distortion.

Glad I skipped this bandwagon. That’s why I keep a different belt , pulley and tune for 110

WNYGT5-0 said:

Why such a light weight oil in an alky engine?


Wrong.... this was federally mandated by Bush Jr. all the way down to the use of corn instead of more efficient sources such as sugar beets and even kelp and algae.

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XW-20W oil is spec at operating temperatures on the 3V. My used oil analysis shows no increase in wear. If you think 0W-XX oils are light weight, you need to read up on them.

And as I stated earlier, and MrBhp concurs, there is an abundance of corn in this country. If you read the link I posted, you can see in increase in production. Commercial farming has been taking over small farm for decades. Improvement in seed, fertilizer, and technology have produced yields unheard of years ago. We grow too much corn. What are you going to do with it.
Now we have a glut of oil. Would we have such a glut if we hadn’t replaced 10% of gas with ethanol for the last 13 years? Who knows?
As far as other alternatives for ethanol production is concerned, you’re right, there are more efficient crops for its production. But how much of those crops exist? See my earlier point.

Badd GT said:

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/423385/ethanol-blamed-for-record-food-prices/

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Or. Does the price of corn drive ethanol production?
https://farmdocdaily.illinois.edu/2013/10/ethanol-prices-drive-corn-prices.html
https://agfax.com/2018/03/07/u-s-corn-prices-drive-ethanol-production-growth/

Plus, That article you posted is 9 years old. In 2011, the price of crude was $100 a barrel, and gas was $3.50 a gallon. The price of fuel has a huge effect on crop prices. Much more than ethanol production. So, which one was it?

Laga said:

Or. Does the price of corn drive ethanol production?
https://farmdocdaily.illinois.edu/2013/10/ethanol-prices-drive-corn-prices.html
https://agfax.com/2018/03/07/u-s-corn-prices-drive-ethanol-production-growth/

Plus, That article you posted is 9 years old. In 2011, the price of crude was $100 a barrel, and gas was $3.50 a gallon. The price of fuel has a huge effect on crop prices. Much more than ethanol production. So, which one was it?

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it has to do what it did to the price of corn, 2007 is when it really started to change things $2-3 dollars a bushel to $7-$8 a bushel after Pres Bush administration enacted something, read the article. Who knows, maybe you arent old enough to have been buying your own food back then?........ Funny a quart of oil was $1.50 or so before oil went from $25 to $100 plus a barrel, then a quart cost $4 plus. Oil has been in the $50 or less range for a long ass time, has the quart gotten less expensive? NO! all things arent as they seem

Badd GT said:

it has to do what it did to the price of corn, 2007 is when it really started to change things $2-3 dollars a bushel to $7-$8 a bushel after Pres Bush administration enacted something, read the article. Who knows, maybe you arent old enough to have been buying your own food back then?........ Funny a quart of oil was $1.50 or so before oil went from $25 to $100 plus a barrel, then a quart cost $4 plus. Oil has been in the $50 or less range for a long ass time, has the quart gotten less expensive? NO! all things arent as they seem

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You certainly can stick to your opinion, but as the graph shows, ethanol production has had little effect on the price of corn when compared to crude oil prices. And BTW, I’m 64,

Laga said:

XW-20W oil is spec at operating temperatures on the 3V. My used oil analysis shows no increase in wear. If you think 0W-XX oils are light weight, you need to read up on them.

And as I stated earlier, and MrBhp concurs, there is an abundance of corn in this country. If you read the link I posted, you can see in increase in production.

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I’m not sure what age really has to do with anything gentlemen.

It really just seems like you just are here to argue sir , but that’s cool. Low viscosity means something else where you’re from. Do tell more about this expert engine oil analysis. Give some more insight on this miracle closed evaporation free fuel system, and if you have time touch on the effects of alcohol and water in the crank case?
I could be wrong but most of your comments lead me to believe you’d don’t know as much about oil and the use of alcohol as a performance fuel as you think you do.

Here’s some of the actual facts if anyone really cares about the actual ethanol debate.
http://ethanolproducer.com/articles...ddress-high-octane-fuel-in-safe-vehicles-rule

Laga said:

View attachment 72177
You certainly can stick to your opinion, but as the graph shows, ethanol production has had little effect on the price of corn when compared to crude oil prices. And BTW, I’m 64,

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ya know, its Lent and i try to be tolerant of stupid people but I cant take it any longer. Your chart reinforces what I have said! Look at the blue line (price of corn) from 2007-2009, see the spike!? Well the price of fucking meat did the same thing,( corn feeds beef) Corn spiked because the goverment created a false demand for corn for ethanol! Beef farmers cried the blues about feed costs and raised prices to more than compensate. Shit, tobacco farms in North Carolina started growing fucking corn because the price got so inflated!
Once the price goes up, its not coming down, like the quart of oil going to $4-$6 dollars a quart when oil went to $100 plus a barrel. Guess what, oil's been about $50 per barrel for the last 5 years and a quart is still $4-$6. Don"t even get me started on roof shingles! How did you make it to 64? overpaid government worker where cost doesnt matter?

You guys do realize that we do not consume the same genetically altered corn that is grown for making alkey-fuel. I was visiting a friend in Idaho who shares part of thousands of acres of engineered hybrid corn that he said was not used for food. He mentioned it had been banned by the EU for human consumption so there was no export market and fuel was their market.

Midlife Crises said:

You guys do realize that we do not consume the same genetically altered corn that is grown for making alkey-fuel. I was visiting a friend in Idaho who shares part of thousands of acres of engineered hybrid corn that he said was not used for food. He mentioned it had been banned by the EU for human consumption so there was no export market and fuel was their market.

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No, most think its the same thing. I have fields around me that the farmers grow corn for ethanol. They haven't slowed down one bit.

WNYGT5-0 said:

I’m not sure what age really has to do with anything gentlemen.

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He questioned my age. Read the post.

WNYGT5-0 said:

It really just seems like you just are here to argue sir , but that’s cool.

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He’s a conspiracy nut. The government is an evil seven headed Hydra that controls the price of roof shingles.

WNYGT5-0 said:

Low viscosity means something else where you’re from. Do tell more about this expert engine oil analysis. Give some more insight on this miracle closed evaporation free fuel system, and if you have time touch on the effects of alcohol and water in the crank case ?

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You asked, “Why such a light weight oil in an alky engine?”
I use the viscosity that the engine was designed for. What you should have asked is, “ What’s you oil change interval with that oil?” And I would have told you 1000-1500 miles. The car is more for show than racing. But you didn’t ask that either.
The used oil analysis did not show any difference in wear metals than the past tests before the conversion. The TBN was lower because of the acidity, whence the short OCI. Lubricity of the oil was not effected.