No Crank No Start

GlassTop09

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Hi OP,
When you said you checked all fuses under the hood, gotta ask did you actually check every 1 of them & how did you perform the checks....visual, w\ a test light connected to ground or w\ a DVOM set in continuity?

I read that you noted that some of them didn't have power to them....which is correct as some of these fuses are in post-ignition circuits meaning that they are powered up after the ignition switch is in either the run position or accessory position.
Fuse #68 in the BEC is a yellow 20A mini fuse which is the fuse for the ignition circuit which should be hot at all times (power from battery + going to the ignition switch in steering column) so before going under the dash make sure that this fuse is good.

If you do have to check any wiring under the dash using a test light checking for continuity then before doing any of this go into the SJB (the fuse box behind the inside passenger side kick panel) & pull out fuse #17 red 10A mini fuse (this powers the RCM, PODS & PADI systems....or in layman's terms this kills power to the airbag system) & wait for at least 2-5 mins for the capacitors to drain down in the RCM before proceeding & then ONLY use your test light connected to GROUND so that you don't get a face full of airbag if you should accidently probe into a +wire to any of the airbags as to use a test light for this work the system will need to be powered up (battery connected) to check for continuity.

Hope this helps.

PS--Almost forgot, as to the issue of the horn beeping twice fast this is an audible that says that either the doors, trunk or hood isn't closed fully.....most times it's due to the switch under the hood (mounted on passenger side fender by the BEC) or due to low battery power to the PATS...…..

Another PS--Just remembered to cover this, this is why you didn't hear your fuel pump spin up as fuse #41 is the fuse to the fuel pump\injectors but the #21 relay beside it is what the ignition switch has to power up to complete the circuit.
 
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Tony Conti

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I've been super busy the past two days, I appreciate the advice a lot and you sound like you know what you're doing around a car! Either tonight or tomorrow evening I'm going to give it a shot and let you know what I find.
 

golkhl

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Have the alternator tested(on the car) at your local auto parts store, most electrical gremlins lead back to a bad alternator on the 05-09 Mustangs.
 

Tony Conti

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No progress yet, I got really sick and I'm still pretty beat up. Thankfully it's not the coronavirus. As soon as I start feeling better I'm going to get on it. I think tomorrow I'm just going to get up early and take a shit ton of vitamin c and get in the garage and get this taken care of.
 

Dynomax

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Sorry to hear that you’re not well. All the best for a full recovery and good luck with the car.
 

Tony Conti

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Ok, I felt like shit but got some progress. Fuse 68 was blown, I replaced it with a new one and turned the key to the on position and nothing happened but the fuse didn't blow again. But also it is hot on both sides which are confusing to me. Anyways I looked under the hood for all the grounds I could find and they all needed some attention. Not all of them were that bad but I had two that were very corroded. After that, I went under the car and checked the starter too and it was pretty bad so I cleaned that up (with the battery disconnected.) I put the images on this. The thick wire can only be seen in the pic where everything is cleaned up but before I cleaned it, it was solid green crust. I'm off work tomorrow at 5 and I'm going to look at what GlassTop09 put on here. I just wanted to check those grounds and the starter before I looked at anything else. Also, the battery is reading 13.4v right now.

starter1.jpg

starter2.jpg

starter3.jpg

starter4.jpg
 

Tony Conti

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Also, you can see the chrome plating peeling off the BBK long tube headers... should have spent the extra money and got the ceramic coated ones.
 

GlassTop09

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Ok, I saw that you found fuse #68 was blown so you have something going on that is causing hi amp draw\short on the ignition circuit. As I typed earlier, this fuse is supposed to be hot at all times (direct from battery + to the +12v input side of the ignition switch in steering column). Since the fuse didn't blow after replacement then after turning the ignition key on & nothing responds then some circuit(s) is\are still open meaning there is a break in the circuit(s).

Try this before going under the dash to determine if +12v power is actually going thru the ignition switch...we are testing the ignition circuitry, not necessarily the fuses:

These 3 fuse circuits in the BEC (under hood) are powered off the ignition:
#40--ignition coils, cooling fans
#42--TPS, ETC actuator (throttle body)
#47--ABS module
These 4 fuse circuits in the SJB (inside pass side) are powered off the ignition:
#3--wipers, blower motor
#12--ignition, climate control
#14--A\C cycle switch
#16--instrument cluster
With the key in off position check at these fuse positions w\ your test light connected to ground....you should have no power thru either side of the fuse.
Then w\ the key in KOEO (or run position) check these same fuse positions again....if you now have power showing up at these fuse positions this is verifying that the ignition switch +12v power is going thru the ignition switch & coming out of it so then we will need to start checking all secondary circuits. Now if you are getting power thru only 1 side of any of these fuses you've identified more blown fuse(s) which means that there are more issues to chase that may have something to do w\ blowing the #68 20A ignition fuse. If you get a repeat of the 1st test then you have verified an open +12v ignition circuit so then you'll need to go under dash & trace the power wire off fuse #68 bringing power into the ignition switch to confirm the wire integrity then trace the wiring out of the switch for +12v power to verify if the ignition switch is bad.

When doing this don't forget to go into SJB & pull fuse #17 BEFORE proceeding...………refer back to my 1st posting.

While you're checking fuses please check the following fuses in the BEC as these fuses feed +12v power to the SJB itself (where all the SJB control circuits are fed +12v power from that mostly control relay circuits in the BEC--the 5A fused circuits--& interior low amp circuits--the 10A fused circuits-- mostly to dash & center console controls but a couple do feed power to the PCM as secondary circuits...PCM is controlling these):
#62--this is a 20A (yellow) mini fuse
#59, #63, #67--all these are 30A (I believe white) mini fuses

If you find any of these fuses blown then this indicates that your issues are located in the circuitry routed thru the SJB that the blown fuse feeds. There are 4 different circuits & those fuses should also be hot at all times.

Something(s) caused a short or an over amp draw on the ignition circuit to blow the fuse so you might find that you may have more fuses blown as most of the other fused circuits that are fed off the ignition circuit are using smaller rated fuses. If you have an Owner's Manual for your car it has the fuse diagrams for both fuse boxes in it to give you some info.....it's not the best but it's better than nothing.....

The hardest issues to fix w\ these cars are\can be electrical issues as finding the root cause can take a while. A short is usually easier to find due to the burnt, deformed & smelly wiring (both visual & olfactory senses) but finding open circuits can be time consuming.

So gotta ask.....have you been doing any wiring work recently (install radio, amp, etc) that is taking power off the car's ignition?

Also a list of what does work when the key is put in the run position (or any other items such as headlights, horn, etc) will help us to help you.

Hope this helps.
 
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RavenGT

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Get a helper and determine if you have cranking voltage to the starter. If so, you need a starter. If not, cut back the insulation on the power (red) wire to see if that corrosion goes up the wire. If so, repair or replace that harness. If you have no cranking voltage to the starter and the power wire is good then it is time for more diagnostics. Check the basic stuff first.
 

Tony Conti

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No power weather key is in the off or run position in fuses (under the hood)

69

40

42

47


Every other fuse under the hood has power to both sides and there are no blown fuses under the hood.


There are no blown fuses under the dash by the kick panel but there is only power to fuses

4

8

10

15

Whether the key is in the off or run position.


There is no power through any other fuses but none are blown.


However, when doing a visual inspection I did notice (attached picture) that whatever this wire is, it looks to be slightly corroded. No idea why it’s done this way and exposed but that is the only thing I noticed to be a little weird.


Also, I have not done an ounce of any electrical work on this car. The only thing I have done was replace tail lights and replace the map lights with LED’s. Nothing else has been done besides that (electronically). My experience with electrical work is minimal if you could call it that.


As far as things that work still… I can turn on the headlights, turn the dash and interior lights on, lock and unlock doors, horn works and the trunk pops open. I have all the functions you would have with the vehicle off.

Also, fuse 17 was pulled before testing.

wires1.jpg

wires2.jpg

wires1.jpg

wires2.jpg
 

Tony Conti

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Also that big locking clip ill call it, I had released so the wire could be seen better. This was done after the testing, I didn't want to possibly cause false issues before testing. I put it back into the original position after I was done taking the picture.
 

GlassTop09

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Ok, now this gets a lot of stuff out of the way & your main issue is centered around the ignition circuit (that fuse #68 sends +12v power to).
On a quick note, I'm assuming that you meant that fuse #59...not #69 (there is no such fuse #).....in the BEC had no power to it whether the key was turned on or off, yes?
Just so you know, fuse #59 in BEC is supposed to be hot at all times (as I had typed in earlier post) & this 30A fuse sends +12v power into the SJB's low power circuit board (located in back of the SJB) along w\ fuse #63 & #67 in BEC (the other 2 30A fuses) which provides +12v power to power up your park, brake, turn signal lighting systems (all park lights, brake lights including the 3rd light & both rear side marker lights, turn signal lights in dash, headlamp switch in dash, multifunction switch mounted behind steering wheel, hazard flasher switch, license plate light, etc). This looks to be an extra power feed but you need to keep this in mind if you start noticing any weirdness in any of the aforementioned lighting systems as the SJB low current board is essentially being under fed +12v power due to no power coming thru fuse #59 so the cause of this issue will be under the BEC (hopefully is just a loose +12v connection to 1 side of the #59 fuse). Those 3 30A power feeds were run to this part of the SJB for a reason...…………..

Now back to your main issue. Since fuse #68 in the BEC is now good & you're still not getting power thru the switch (why I had you test to the certain fuses that I gave you in earlier posting in the BEC...#40, #42, #47 & the certain fuses in the SJB....#3, #12, #14, #16, #18 as all these are powered up thru the ignition switch & you reported that you got no power whether the key was on or off....key off you shouldn't have seen power but key on you should have) you have verified an open +12v ignition circuit which can be that the ignition switch itself is bad but you'll need to check the wiring between the fuse & the switch to ensure that +12v power is actually getting to it then test the ignition switch itself to see if it is good. You finding the #68 fuse blown earlier is indicating that there was a problem in this circuit somewhere. You should be able to test this by removing the ignition switch from it's connector then using your test light connected to ground probe each terminal in the ignition switch connector until you find 1 that lights up.....that 1 will be the +12v input from the #68 fuse & will verify that the wiring is good. If you don't light up on any of the ignition switch connector terminals then you'll need to find the break in the wiring between the #68 fuse & the ignition switch connector (which could have caused the fuse to blow if exposed wiring came into contact w\ a ground). Then using your DVOM set up in continuity locate the terminal on the ignition switch that will plug into the +12v connector & attach 1 test lead to it then turn the key in switch to the run position then using the other test lead test the other terminals on the switch to see if you get a continuity signal (the beep) thru them then also test for continuity to ground by touching the test lead to the switch body to see if you get a beep as well (checking for a potentially shorted switch which could also blow the fuse).

If you get no beeps on any of them w\ the switch in the run position then you've identified a bad ignition switch. If you do get beeps thru them then the switch is good.....then your other potential issue for not getting power thru the ignition switch will be the PATS system has most likely immobilized the ignition switch (the PCM isn't reading the chip in your ignition key thru the transponder ring that is mounted around the ignition switch) so it will not allow power to pass thru the switch to any of the systems necessary to start up the car (remember the double beeping you heard....). That transponder ring may have failed & is not sending the signal to the PCM from the embedded key chip to "unlock" the ignition system but this won't cause a blown ignition circuit fuse so only focus on this once all else is verified to be good (you should have still found power at the fuses indicated regardless w\ the key in run position as the PATS will immobilize the ignition coils & starter only thru the PCM).

Hope this helps......it's a lot of stuff to go thru but as I typed earlier, finding electrical root causes can be time consuming but can also cost you some money in changing unnecessary parts if the circuit checks aren't done to rule out each part of the system to get to the root cause. It does you no good to start checking anything else until you verify that you're actually getting +12v power to then thru the ignition switch.

BTW....the exposed wiring that you noted running thru the connector by the SJB is a shield wire (a type of resistor) & is not to be concerned over at this time. Also fuses #4, #8, #10, #15 in the SJB are supposed to be hot at all times so a non issue.
 

Juice

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Disconnect battery before you do this inspection!!!!!

I suspect the root cause is somewhere under the BEC fuse panel.
I think one of those high current connection has melted. I would pull the fuse panel from the BEC to inspect. Those 4 bolts under the fuse cover next to the fuses release the 4 wiring connectors to them in the bec. There are 2 release tabs to separate the fuse panel from the bottom tray. Its a 10 min job.
Take out the fuse panel of the BEC and take a pic of those 4 connectors and the underside of the fuse panel. Dont have to remove any fuses, just undo the 4 bolts.

That wire in your photo is not corroded. That is a common ground or a shield for a sensitive circuit. It is fine.

And now that I think about it, the issue HAS to be the in the BEC. Power to the BEC comes directly from the battery via that heavy guage wire from the battery terminal. Since there is partial power at the BEC, that feed is fine.

Glasstop,.do you agree? Any of those power feeds that are dead shared with the cooling fan feed circuit?
 
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GlassTop09

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Disconnect battery before you do this inspection!!!!!

I suspect the root cause is somewhere under the BEC fuse panel.
I think one of those high current connection has melted. I would pull the fuse panel from the BEC to inspect. Those 4 bolts under the fuse cover next to the fuses release the 4 wiring connectors to them in the bec. There are 2 release tabs to separate the fuse panel from the bottom tray. Its a 10 min job.
Take out the fuse panel of the BEC and take a pic of those 4 connectors and the underside of the fuse panel. Dont have to remove any fuses, just undo the 4 bolts.

That wire in your photo is not corroded. That is a common ground or a shield for a sensitive circuit. It is fine.

And now that I think about it, the issue HAS to be the in the BEC. Power to the BEC comes directly from the battery via that heavy guage wire from the battery terminal. Since there is partial power at the BEC, that feed is fine.

Glasstop,.do you agree? Any of those power feeds that are dead shared with the cooling fan feed circuit?
Not all fuses in the BEC are fed +12v direct from the battery, some get their power feed thru the ignition switch circuit & are dead when the ignition switch is in off position.

Yes, fuse #40 feeds the cooling fans low speed circuits & relays that power the high speed fans as well as the ignition coils....this circuit is only hot when the ignition is in run or start....tis why I had the OP to test here after replacing the blown #68 ignition fuse (and on others that are hot on run or start to test across the entire ignition circuit that is downstream of the ignition switch...list is given in post #29...all from Ford wiring diagrams from my Chilton's manual) for power w\ the key off (to ensure that there isn't any rouge power being fed indicating crossover which can blow the fuse) then test same points again w\ KOEO (should have had +12v power at this fuse & all the others I gave him...no power here indicates the ignition circuit is still open). OP has already found fuse #68 (ignition....hot at all times) in BEC blown & has replaced the fuse & now this fuse is still tested good (also verified has +12v power going thru it now) but no power to the ignition circuits so at this time to speed all this up need to test for power at the ignition switch itself to verify the wiring from the BEC to the switch, then test the ignition switch assembly at the same time for integrity thru it. If +12v input power is found at the ignition switch connector the BEC & wiring is then ruled out in 1 swoop (after pulling fuse #68 to verify the power source), if it is not THEN will need to start at the BEC to check terminals\wiring downstream of the fuse. Hoping that the ignition switch is the culprit but need to test it to verify that it is instead of throwing parts in hoping that you get lucky...……...

There is a problem in the ignition circuit in his car that blew the fuse. I don't think OP has a power probe, only a test light & DVOM so as long as the test light is a low amp unit connected to ground only & fuse #17 in SJB is pulled (airbag systems) OP should be OK to test the ignition circuit w\ batt connected (will have to be using a test light) unless OP has a set of very long test leads (at least 15' or longer) for OP's DVOM to use it in continuity to check all wiring w\ batt disconnected. If to really make it all safe to run a test light then all fuses in BEC can be pulled to open all circuits (this will include the SJB as well) except fuse #68 so the ignition circuit will be the only circuit w\ +12v power on it but this is a little extreme IMHO. Can also disconnect the battery before disconnecting the ignition switch connector from the ignition switch then hook battery back up to then perform the test described....if desired.

If anyone can pull up a wiring diagram of the ignition circuit so that the specific wire color of the +12v input to ignition switch from the BEC be known this will help the OP.....for some reason I can't open any .pdf's from the online FWM I have & my Chilton manual doesn't have a wiring diagram of the ignition circuits (go figure on that 1) & I don't have access to any of the online shop sites (Mitchell, AllData, etc.) to pull this diagram from.
 
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Tony Conti

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At work right now but just an update. I used my friend's DVOM to get the battery voltage the other day and he needed it for work so he has it now. I just ordered this https://www.ktool.net/fluke-117-and-323-electricians-multimeter-combo-kit/ so I think once this gets in ill have what I need for the most part. Also, I forgot to mention that the double horn beep stopped completely and hasn't happened again. If I open the hood and try to lock it'll double beep. I just thought it was odd since I've owned this car for two years and that hadn't happened before.
 

Tony Conti

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The only electrical testing tool I have is the test light so I figured this was a good buy. Also, I have full access to Mitchell and I have a Chilton, Haynes, and owner manual.
 
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Juice

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Ok, I will let Glasstop continue with assisting. He B on top of it. lol
Carry on :)
 

GlassTop09

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At work right now but just an update. I used my friend's DVOM to get the battery voltage the other day and he needed it for work so he has it now. I just ordered this https://www.ktool.net/fluke-117-and-323-electricians-multimeter-combo-kit/ so I think once this gets in ill have what I need for the most part. Also, I forgot to mention that the double horn beep stopped completely and hasn't happened again. If I open the hood and try to lock it'll double beep. I just thought it was odd since I've owned this car for two years and that hadn't happened before.
Yeah, that Fluke amp clamp should help you out in safely checking wire circuits for existing power\no power w\ batt connected.
Anything Fluke makes is good stuff...…………. Now you're in a much better position equipment-wise to find the source of your issues w\o a face full of airbag...…….

Yep, this is why that hood switch is put there....to warn drivers of an unlatched hood. You done good w\ hood latching except for the 1 time you forgot..... Also why most hard core folks install hood pins to ensure the hood doesn't accidentally unlatch under driving conditions as the hood side latch loop is bolted into an aluminum hood using only 2 13mm bolts securing it....the rest of us just think they're cool looking......
 

Tony Conti

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Quick update, I just put in the new ignition switch I had and nothing has changed. I figured since I had it that I might as well throw it in. So I guess that confirms its not the switch itself... It was an OEM switch so I am confident that the one I just put in is ok by the way. So now I need to find the open. How do I go about finding the wire? Do I probe the connector that plugs into the ignition switch (connector coming from the harness)
 
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