Stock Exhaust Manifold vs Shorty Headers +++ WHICH TUNER?

Jhol

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Okay so i have a relatively new to me 2012 mustang gt. The car has a lot of work done to it and I've been trying to sort through things, figure out where its at and where to start. I think i should start with headers, and therefore I'm sure ill need a new tune. The car has an (unknown brand) X mid pipe with Roush axle back exhaust. The mid pipe is Catless and bolts up to the stock manifold. The car already has a Bama tune on it, but I did not receive the tuner with the car. So, my questions are!

With the given set up, stock manifold vs shorty headers, what kind of gains should one expect? obviously theres no perfect answer, but estimates?

I would need shorty headers to have an OEM fitment as to make sure it bolts up to current X pipe. What are recommendations?

I've heard some disappointing things about BAMA tunes. I assume its currently tuned by BAMA as there is a obnoxious badge posted on the glove box. Are there other recommendation for tuners though? Is Lund Racing worth the extra money? I'm not sure how to go here. I want an aggressive daily driver tune with some crackle and pop on the down shifts! and a reliable mild ghost cam would be wicked.

Not knowing what is done with the vehicle exactly, do you expect i'll run into problems getting it tuned?

I look forward to hearing from everyone, and can't wait get some clarification!
 

Juice

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Stock headers are fine for N/A mild bolt ons. I have stock headers, direct fit high flow catted x, and hooked it all up to the V6 dual exhaust conversion I already had. Made 404 to the wheels with a JLT intake and tune only.

As for the tune, I would ditch Bama. I ran a BAMA tune.... once. A long time ago. Sorry, I have no idea where to turn for coyote tuning. I ended up just buying the SCT software and fix my own shit.
 

MrBhp

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What part of the country do you live in? If any of the recommended tuners are in your area, use them. Some will say that with email tunes available it doesn't matter. I think it does.
 

Dino Dino Bambino

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Shorty headers are a waste of time

The '11+ GT already has shorty headers from the factory so any aftermarket shorty header isn't likely to be much of an improvement. Spend the money elsewhere or go long tubes if they're legal in your state. If the latter isn't an option, a Lund Racing tune would be money well spent.
 

Jhol

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What part of the country do you live in? If any of the recommended tuners are in your area, use them. Some will say that with email tunes available it doesn't matter. I think it does.
Tallahassee FL. No dyno's or tuners in my immediate area

The '11+ GT already has shorty headers from the factory so any aftermarket shorty header isn't likely to be much of an improvement. Spend the money elsewhere or go long tubes if they're legal in your state. If the latter isn't an option, a Lund Racing tune would be money well spent.
I do believe long tubes are legal, however I fancy the idea of a pro charger in the future. Also, the mid pipes are for shorty headers (OEM fitment) switching to long tube would require me to also replace the mid pipes now.
 
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Jhol

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Shorty headers are a waste of time as are Bama tunes
Please, explain!

Stock headers are fine for N/A mild bolt ons. I have stock headers, direct fit high flow catted x, and hooked it all up to the V6 dual exhaust conversion I already had. Made 404 to the wheels with a JLT intake and tune only.

As for the tune, I would ditch Bama. I ran a BAMA tune.... once. A long time ago. Sorry, I have no idea where to turn for coyote tuning. I ended up just buying the SCT software and fix my own shit.
Thanks! I'll look into SCT
 
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Dino Dino Bambino

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Even with a Procharger, the HP & TQ gains from aftermarket shorties will be minimal. Since your existing midpipe is catless, you could install full length LT headers and have the front pipes of the midpipe shortened to fit.
 

skwerl

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Tallahassee FL. No dyno's or tuners in my immediate area
VMP is in Deltona, close to New Smyrna Beach. Justin's tunes are top notch and among the best in the industry. Lund is also a good choice.

Disclosure- I've run VMP tunes on my last 3 vehicles. a 2009 Bullitt Mustang with 643 RWHP (blower, forged motor, T56 Magnum transmission, etc.), 2014 Mustang GT and a 2016 F150.

I live less than 5 miles from LaMotta Performance. He's small time, has always been small time and will always be small time. I've been to his shop for a dyno day but he's never tuned my car. He did, however, make fun of my tuner claiming my tuner inflated his dyno numbers right up until he ran my car on the dyno and it blew away every other car on the property.
 

Juice

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Just an FYI on 5.0 tuning. There is practically no power gains to be had with conventional tuning. (fuel & spark) 99% of the power gains are in the cam timing changes. Which you need to do on a dyno.

What can be adjusted are more about drivability. Like disabeling skip shift on manual cars, no power there. Throttle response/feel, again, no power there. Timing is already maxxed out by the pcm based on knock detected. So just running premium should get you more power. The pcm adapts to the fuel in the tank and adjusts timing accordingly. Fueling is closed loop 100% of the time. Pcm will command programmed values for WOT, set it and forget it. And Ford has it pretty much nailed from the factory already.

But a crappy attempt at tuning will likely result in just bad driveability and the same power as stock.

Note: I consider the factory maniifolds shorty headers.
 

06 T-RED S/C GT

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Stock headers are fine for N/A mild bolt ons. I have stock headers, direct fit high flow catted x, and hooked it all up to the V6 dual exhaust conversion I already had. Made 404 to the wheels with a JLT intake and tune only.

As for the tune, I would ditch Bama. I ran a BAMA tune.... once. A long time ago. Sorry, I have no idea where to turn for coyote tuning. I ended up just buying the SCT software and fix my own shit.

Stock headers are also fine with S/C applications. I still run the stockers with Saleen VI supercharger, stock cat down pipes to "pypes" cut n clamp X mid pipe and Borla ATAK exhaust. The S197 stock headers are also considered far less restrictive compared to the previous SN-95 generation cars and flow very well for "OEM" exhaust manifolds. Unless planning on upgrading to long tube headers? don't even bother wasting your time and hard earned money on shorty headers. They don't flow any better nor provide any real HP gains over the stock headers and are therefore a joke as far as I'm concerned lol.

With stock exhaust manifold? so shorty shouldn't expect any kind of power gains? Sorry for my noobness & thanks for your time!
Shorty headers do not provide any real power gains nor do they provide more airflow over the stock headers. As also mentioned, the S197 stock exhaust manifolds were designed by Ford to be far less restrictive and flow very efficiently for an "OEM" exhaust manifold. That being said, unless your looking to just change the sound of your exhaust? there is nothing to be gained from upgrading to shorty headers over the stock exhaust manifolds.
 

skwerl

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While we are talking about aftermarket 'performance' parts that do absolutely nothing for performance but tend to lighten your wallet, let's not forget about aftermarket CAI kits. The S197 airboxes flow enough air to easily support I think close to 500hp without restricting airflow. So unless you're adding a blower there is no reason to waste money on a CAI. Any time I see a CAI on a stock engine Mustang I just think to myself 'What an idiot' and walk away without saying anything.
 

06 T-RED S/C GT

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While we are talking about aftermarket 'performance' parts that do absolutely nothing for performance but tend to lighten your wallet, let's not forget about aftermarket CAI kits. The S197 airboxes flow enough air to easily support I think close to 500hp without restricting airflow. So unless you're adding a blower there is no reason to waste money on a CAI. Any time I see a CAI on a stock engine Mustang I just think to myself 'What an idiot' and walk away without saying anything.
Sure learned that the hard way lol. Since then, I've stuck with the stock Saleen 98mm airbox which flows more than enough air to support 500+hp for the Saleen VI blower without restricting airflow. Unless upgrading to larger heads, forged internals, cams, throttle body, intake manifold or blower that all require additional airflow, upgrading to a larger diameter CAI kit on a stock 3v engine is nothing more than just overkill.
 
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Dino Dino Bambino

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I agree that the CAI on its own doesn't add much power since most of the HP & TQ gains (especially at lower rpm) come from the tune. I have the JLT 3 and it does add an induction growl that's intoxicating when you get on the gas.

As for shorty headers v stock manifolds, it depends on which platform you're starting from. If it's a Coyote 5.0, any aftermarket shorty will be a waste of money even on a forced induction set up. If it's a 3V, mid-length shorties such as the JBA yield a useful TQ gain over the stock manifolds especially at lower rpm on a N/A set up. They're also useful if you add turbos but of little benefit if supercharged except for the throatier sound.
 

06 T-RED S/C GT

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Even on a stock 3v engine, shorty headers do absolutely nothing over the stock manifolds except for provide a deeper/throatier exhaust note, otherwise, they provide no real benefit over the stock manifolds. I also don't care if their mid-length shorties or whatever JBA chooses to calls them, I don't buy into their marketing hype bullshit claims for a single moment. For what it's worth, the engineers at Ford improved upon the design of the 3v exhaust manifolds to where they're far less restrictive and flow much better when compared to the previous SN-95 generation. In addition, Ford also retains the stock exhaust manifolds for the Shelby GT500 4v cars with Eaton supercharger while Saleen and Roush also use the stock manifolds for their supercharged S197 cars as well. At any rate, until there's actual real world numbers that support JBA's marketing claims? I'll just stick with the stock 3v manifolds. As for the CAI, I totally agree that most of the hp & tq gains come from the performance tune and not from the CAI by itself. However when adding a huge 110mm MAF to a stock 3v engine? is like trying to push more air from a larger opening into a straw, as the intake and exhaust ports of the stock 3v heads are only capable of taking in the amount of airflow for which they were designed by the factory. That being said, unless upgrading to larger heads, throttle body, cams and so on that actually require and can make real usage from larger amounts of airflow, anything beyond what the stock 3v engine is designed for and can realistically support, is just plain useless and considered as overkill.
 
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Juice

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I saw a dyno test on a 351 windsor based engine, 450HP range engine. Just for test, they installed a set of stock 90's vintage 302 mustang headers. It made well over 400 hp with those "restrictive" stock shorty headers. Makes you think just how much money ppl throw away on upgrades and get minimal to NO gains in power. Those 302s were rated at 225 hp, roughly HALF of what that windsor made.

I swapped out those restrictive headers twice. First for larger tube unequal, then to an equal length shorty, which are still on my 91 now. Makes me want to put the stockers back on....... NOT lmao.

Long tubes are the only thing to swap to if you are after HP. On a coyote, its worth about 30 HP, require tuning to take advantage of the gains. I am tempted to go long tube and 2018 intake. But I will not change anything before a dyno pull so I have a before and after.
 

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