No Crank No Start

golkhl

forum member
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Posts
4,305
Reaction score
2,687
Location
Las Vegas, NV
By chance, does your car have an aftermarket remote start? If yes, remove/unplug it, and see if there is any change.
 

GlassTop09

Senior Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Posts
1,141
Reaction score
525
Location
Farmington, NM
Quick update, I just put in the new ignition switch I had and nothing has changed. I figured since I had it that I might as well throw it in. So I guess that confirms its not the switch itself... It was an OEM switch so I am confident that the one I just put in is ok by the way. So now I need to find the open. How do I go about finding the wire? Do I probe the connector that plugs into the ignition switch (connector coming from the harness)
Ok. Now this is where you will need a copy of the ignition wiring diagram for your car as it will tell you what is the specific wire color of this wire (some will also give the size of the wire as well....I think this particular wire is either 10ga or 12ga so it's not a small wire) and the routing of it somewhat to the input side of the ignition switch. But this is also where you need to start from the beginning (where the power source starts which is under the BEC itself at the #68 fuse position) then trace it all the way thru until you find the open (break) in the wire or verify it to be good all the way to the ignition switch connector.

Since you have access to Mitchell you should be able to acquire the necessary wiring diagrams to get the info you'll need.

This is what Juice was typing in his earlier post. Start by opening up the underside of the BEC (this time do please disconnect the battery for safety until you get it opened up) to check the wire connector where the leg of the fuse connects in....this is the most common area for a break in the circuit as these connectors will go bad over time...especially if they start to corrode causing a poor connection (this can cause a fuse to blow as a poor connection causes the amperage to rise across the fuse link due to voltage droop across the bad downstream fuse connector & blow it once the amperage exceeds the link's rating (these fuses are a quick blow design by intention to try to preserve the wiring's integrity....IOW's to not burn the wiring up causing potential fires). So in all likelihood the ignition wire shouldn't be broken anywhere between the BEC & the ignition switch in steering column but this can be akin to the old saying about assuming.....thus why you start from the beginning & trace until you find the open. This is also why you go about doing this in a specified order of procedure so that you account for everything along the way & don't skip over & miss something pertinent which can cause more money\time spent\issues to now fix than otherwise.

Getting impatient at this time can be costly...……………...goes for DIY'ers as well as professional shops.

Now is also where a power probe can come in handy if you don't find anything wrong under the BEC as you can then apply power to this specific wire only to make it safer to trace as now w\ the battery disconnected no others will be powered up except the 1 you have the power probe attached to. But it can be done w\ a test light w\ batt connected.....just will need to be more careful & direct in how you use the test light....only connected to ground & w\ fuse #17 pulled in SJB......I know you know this by now but gotta keep putting it out there due to others reading these posts of mine cause to actually do wire tracing fully you may need to pierce the wire's insulation in several points along it's length to ensure that you still have power...if you do have to do this then please use some liquid tape to repair the hole in the insulation to prevent corrosion forming in the copper strands from air getting under the insulation coming in thru the hole you just put in it....you'll thank yourself later.

I REALLY hope that you find your problem source under the BEC as there it is the easiest to fix...……………. Cause if you find that the break is actually PAST the ignition switch that's where it's gonna get really intensive to find but it can be done...…..

Also when it comes to electrical components I would borrow a phrase uttered by the late President Ronald Reagan that he used to relate to the old Soviet Union..... "Trust but verify." I will not trust any electrical component--even a new one--until I test it 1st to ensure that it is good before installing it.
When I say this I'm coming from actual experience here over the years...…….
 
Last edited:

GlassTop09

Senior Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Posts
1,141
Reaction score
525
Location
Farmington, NM
Quick update, I just put in the new ignition switch I had and nothing has changed. I figured since I had it that I might as well throw it in. So I guess that confirms its not the switch itself... It was an OEM switch so I am confident that the one I just put in is ok by the way. So now I need to find the open. How do I go about finding the wire? Do I probe the connector that plugs into the ignition switch (connector coming from the harness)
Ah, I missed reading your last sentence of this post of yours...………………my bad……….
You finding the #68 fuse blown earlier is indicating that there was a problem in this circuit somewhere. You should be able to test this by removing the ignition switch from it's connector then using your test light connected to ground probe each terminal in the ignition switch connector until you find 1 that lights up.....that 1 will be the +12v input from the #68 fuse & will verify that the wiring is good. If you don't light up on any of the ignition switch connector terminals then you'll need to find the break in the wiring between the #68 fuse & the ignition switch connector (which could have caused the fuse to blow if exposed wiring came into contact w\ a ground). Then using your DVOM set up in continuity locate the terminal on the ignition switch that will plug into the +12v connector & attach 1 test lead to it then turn the key in switch to the run position then using the other test lead test the other terminals on the switch to see if you get a continuity signal (the beep) thru them then also test for continuity to ground by touching the test lead to the switch body to see if you get a beep as well (checking for a potentially shorted switch which could also blow the fuse).
Excert of some instructions to test while ignition switch was out that I had provided cut from my post #33...…………………….

If my logic is good, the +12v input terminal in the ignition switch connector\on the ignition switch should be larger than all the rest since it is carrying a potential max of 20A current so it should be visably noticeable from all the others...…..at least I'm thinking that it would be. I haven't visually looked at this myself on any S197's due to never having this issue w\ my '09 Stang…...yet. Thus why I said "my logic". Going off of past experiences looking at a few older GM\Ford ignition switches\wiring connections back in the day...……..


Hope this helps.
 

Tony Conti

Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Posts
114
Reaction score
20
Location
Akron, OH
Once my DVOM comes in I'm going to go through everything you put on here. Also, I want to mention that when this first happened that I did attempt to remove (with the battery disconnected) the BEC but I couldn't get it out. I loosened the top four bolts and disconnected the wire that is bolted to the side of it. Those bolts wouldn't come out and it freaked me out so I put it back together and haven't touched it since because I didn't want to damage anything. I also had the clips on the side of the box unclipped and I could move it around but I couldn't flip it over and look at it. Is there anything I missed do you think?
 

Juice

forum member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Posts
4,622
Reaction score
1,904
Once my DVOM comes in I'm going to go through everything you put on here. Also, I want to mention that when this first happened that I did attempt to remove (with the battery disconnected) the BEC but I couldn't get it out. I loosened the top four bolts and disconnected the wire that is bolted to the side of it. Those bolts wouldn't come out and it freaked me out so I put it back together and haven't touched it since because I didn't want to damage anything. I also had the clips on the side of the box unclipped and I could move it around but I couldn't flip it over and look at it. Is there anything I missed do you think?
Those 4 bolts attach the connectors to the fuse panel ONLY.
You need to release two tabs one in front one in rear (by that battery cable you disconnected to separate the panel from the BEC bottom tray.
 

Tony Conti

Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Posts
114
Reaction score
20
Location
Akron, OH
Those 4 bolts attach the connectors to the fuse panel ONLY.
You need to release two tabs one in front one in rear (by that battery cable you disconnected to separate the panel from the BEC bottom tray.

I did disconnect those tabs, so if I mess around with it more and get it off do I need to remove those bolts to remove everything connected to the bottom of the BEC?
 

Juice

forum member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Posts
4,622
Reaction score
1,904
You may be able to losen the panel without removing those 4 bolts. But only as far as the harnesses let you. And you need to look at those harness connectors and the underside of the fuse panel. So, yes, remove the bolts, dont worry, they are not going to fall out or be an issue.
 

Tony Conti

Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Posts
114
Reaction score
20
Location
Akron, OH
Ah, I missed reading your last sentence of this post of yours...………………my bad……….

Excert of some instructions to test while ignition switch was out that I had provided cut from my post #33...…………………….

If my logic is good, the +12v input terminal in the ignition switch connector\on the ignition switch should be larger than all the rest since it is carrying a potential max of 20A current so it should be visably noticeable from all the others...…..at least I'm thinking that it would be. I haven't visually looked at this myself on any S197's due to never having this issue w\ my '09 Stang…...yet. Thus why I said "my logic". Going off of past experiences looking at a few older GM\Ford ignition switches\wiring connections back in the day...……..


Hope this helps.

Update: DVOM still has not come in, tonight I'm going to take a quick look at what you said to.
 

Dynomax

Junior Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2020
Posts
13
Reaction score
3
Hi there. Did you ever resolve this? I’m interested in what the cause was and I haven’t seen any additional postings.
 

Tony Conti

Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Posts
114
Reaction score
20
Location
Akron, OH
Yes, I was putting this off for a while. I just got a refund for the DVOM cause I never got it… anyways I didn't want to ruin anything in the fusebox because I seriously could not fully get it off to where I could see underneath it. So I took it (had it towed) to a local hot rod shop and they fixed it. I wanted to take it to my tuner/shop that I trust but they are three hours away and I was in a pinch for money because of this COVID shit and tow for that would have been expensive. Regardless, the guy said that I was missing a fuse… I know I wasn't because like I said in my first post, I pulled the car in and never opened the hood between the time that I got those codes and when the no crank no start happened. Regardless it took him three hours to figure out that apparently, I did not have a “power distribution fuse” even though I knew that I had all the fuses I needed. He couldn't even give me a number for the fuse. Sounds sketchy as hell but the car is fixed and I'm never going back there. Now that things are opening up more work is coming into my job and I have a rainy day fund started so if some shit like this happens again I'll be covered. I appreciate the help and advice everyone gave me on here because I did learn a thing or two.
 

GlassTop09

Senior Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Posts
1,141
Reaction score
525
Location
Farmington, NM
Yes, I was putting this off for a while. I just got a refund for the DVOM cause I never got it… anyways I didn't want to ruin anything in the fusebox because I seriously could not fully get it off to where I could see underneath it. So I took it (had it towed) to a local hot rod shop and they fixed it. I wanted to take it to my tuner/shop that I trust but they are three hours away and I was in a pinch for money because of this COVID shit and tow for that would have been expensive. Regardless, the guy said that I was missing a fuse… I know I wasn't because like I said in my first post, I pulled the car in and never opened the hood between the time that I got those codes and when the no crank no start happened. Regardless it took him three hours to figure out that apparently, I did not have a “power distribution fuse” even though I knew that I had all the fuses I needed. He couldn't even give me a number for the fuse. Sounds sketchy as hell but the car is fixed and I'm never going back there. Now that things are opening up more work is coming into my job and I have a rainy day fund started so if some shit like this happens again I'll be covered. I appreciate the help and advice everyone gave me on here because I did learn a thing or two.
Glad you finally got it all sorted out...….
That sucks having to get a refund on a purchase that you never got delivered.
Sometimes, at the end of the day, you gotta do what you gotta do...……………….
 

Tony Conti

Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Posts
114
Reaction score
20
Location
Akron, OH
Yeah, I really wanted that fluke set so eventually I'll find another. I'm still having some issues with the car though. It's running rich on bank 2. Replaced the spark plugs and injectors less than 5k miles ago (last year) and I also replaced the fuel pressure regulator and vapor canister purge valve/solenoid recently. I work at a dealer so I can get OEM parts for nothing with my discount so those two things combined were only $50... anyways its really weird because the car will run like shit and almost stall out from 1st to 2nd gear under normal acceleration and then sometimes it won't. Also sitting at idle it will run so bad that it feels like the car has a massive cam and then it'll run so smooth that you can't even tell the car is on... just ordered a fuel pressure test kit and it should be here in a few days. Any ideas on what it could possibly be? I wasn't thinking of a fuel pump issue since its running rich.
 

Latest posts

Support us!

Support Us - Become A Supporting Member Today!

Click Here For Details

Sponsor Links

Banner image
Back
Top