Car didn't pass VA emissions - Green cats in my future?

cavero said:

Np! Just passed emissions today, I'll try to get a Mode 06 read in the next day or two

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Good deal!


If I may make a suggestion, if you don't already have an oil catch can installed in your car's PCV system (if you're still using it according to OEM design) I would look into getting 1 installed...….
1 of the main issues that will ruin a cat faster than some think is engine oil consumption due to the carbon deposits being deposited on the cat substrate's hot surface interfering w\ the substrate's ability to initiate the chemical reaction, not to mention the issue of plugging the substrate passageways as well & these 3V's are notorious for oil vapor\blowby siphoning thru the PCV system...
A good catch can will actually help to prolong cat service life by removing a lot of this oil vapor from the PCV air stream thus keeping it away from your cats.....
Another good, valid reason why to consider to use 1, especially if you're running cats.....

PS---My car is closely comparatively equipped as yours is (I have all Ford Performance intake system components...CAI, TB & Intake Manifold & have Kooks LT's w\ Catted Midpipe running Lunati VooDoo #21270700 cams) except your cams are more profile aggressive than mine so these cats should handle my setup very easily passing OBDII w\o issue. I am jealous of you having that Tremec T56 Magnum XL trans installed...…

GlassTop09 said:

Good deal!

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I'm legit again!

GlassTop09 said:

If I may make a suggestion, if you don't already have an oil catch can installed in your car's PCV system (if you're still using it according to OEM design) I would look into getting 1 installed...….
1 of the main issues that will ruin a cat faster than some think is engine oil consumption due to the carbon deposits being deposited on the cat substrate's hot surface interfering w\ the substrate's ability to initiate the chemical reaction, not to mention the issue of plugging the substrate passageways as well & these 3V's are notorious for oil vapor\blowby siphoning thru the PCV system...
A good catch can will actually help to prolong cat service life by removing a lot of this oil vapor from the PCV air stream thus keeping it away from your cats.....
Another good, valid reason why to consider to use 1, especially if you're running cats.....

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Yep, I've got a JLT catch can attached to the back of the CAI heatshield, I installed it after doing the cams/LTs/intake/TB. It's definitely working.

GlassTop09 said:

PS---My car is closely comparatively equipped as yours is (I have all Ford Performance intake system components...CAI, TB & Intake Manifold & have Kooks LT's w\ Catted Midpipe running Lunati VooDoo #21270700 cams) except your cams are more profile aggressive than mine so these cats should handle my setup very easily passing OBDII w\o issue. I am jealous of you having that Tremec T56 Magnum XL trans installed...…

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Yeah sounds really close. I got that Magnum XL because my 3650 was having issues getting into 3rd gear. Turns out the bolts on the pressure plate had started backing out (w/ red locktite nonetheless) but I said screw it, this is my excuse to get the 6 spd

Here's the Catalyst Monitor test results from Torque after driving it ~ 40 min (10 min stop&go, 5 min highway, 15 min stop& go, 10 min idling)
MID:$21 TID:$80
- Catalyst Monitor Bank 1
Max: 0.77733Ratio Min: 0Ratio
Test result value: 0.35546Ratio
PASS
----
MID:$22 TID:$80
- Catalyst Monitor Bank 2
Max: 0.59765Ratio Min: 0Ratio
Test result value: 0.27343Ratio
PASS


I've also got the test results from FORscan in the screenshot

Appreciate you posting the info, cavero!

They're looking good to date & this data is helping me to know of what to expect from a set of these cats installed in my car's exhaust system if push comes to shove so I really am thankful for the postings.

Note: I wouldn't sweat over the Mode 6 O2 sensor data showing that all 4 NB O2 sensor's heater circuit voltage is at 0v (which is below the min allowed voltage threshold thus flagged in red instead of green) as this is most likely due to your engine's exhaust temp\temp created from catalyst operation being more than sufficient to maintain optimum operating temp for your NB O2 sensors to operate efficiently after initial warmup from cold start thus the PCM has opened the grounds in the heater circuits so no voltage is PWM modulated to ground (PCM also is showing no DTC's & O2 Sensors are OBDII Complete & Passed as well as the avg CMBT-cat mid-bed temp-reading for both cats in Mode 6 data under Misfire Monitor is fairly high @ 592.8*C or 1099.4*F so they're cooking pretty damn good). Since these are powered thru the same #45 PCM fuse in BEC that powers the VCT solenoids & EVAP CPV & CVS valves they most likely have +12v power thru them to the PCM (PCM reads the +12v at it's O2 sensor heater terminal pins when KOEO or KOER so it knows the circuits are good) as well but it wouldn't hurt to check to verify...……..I could be wrong on this.

Yours is the 1st I've seen this occur on the O2 sensor heater circuits. Most test results will show some actual O2 sensor heater voltage usage amount above the min heater voltage threshold being used but not exceeding the max threshold as the exhaust couldn't maintain the necessary O2 sensor operating temp w\o some help from the O2 sensor heater circuits...….

Just thought I'd mention this since I noted it thru your Torque\FORScan Mode 6 data.

Hi cavero,
Just thought about you so checking in on how the GREEN cats are still performing since it's been a couple of months?

I assume up front that no news is good news but was curious.
Hope all is going well..................

GlassTop09 said:

Hi cavero,
Just thought about you so checking in on how the GREEN cats are still performing since it's been a couple of months?

I assume up front that no news is good news but was curious.
Hope all is going well..................

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Yeah, still good. Car's running great and no CEL's

Good deal!
Glad all is resolved for you & now I know what to expect when the time comes for me..............

Damn you guys. lol. I want LTH and cats.... Its only $2000-ish for the setup.
If I do upgrade, will dyno before and after. (Have to re-dyno anyway, but thats another story)

Juice said:

Damn you guys. lol. I want LTH and cats.... Its only $2000-ish for the setup.
If I do upgrade, will dyno before and after. (Have to re-dyno anyway, but thats another story)

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If you aren't too concerned with corrosion, my set up only cost like $500-$600 and welded in some cats. They are mild steel but I've had mine on for 12 years or so. I did have to replace the mid-pipe this year but that was like $125. Plus the primaries were 1/8" larger than most headers for our cars. Pacesetters are a good inexpensive brand of steel headers.

07 Boss said:

If you aren't too concerned with corrosion, my set up only cost like $500-$600 and welded in some cats. They are mild steel but I've had mine on for 12 years or so. I did have to replace the mid-pipe this year but that was like $125. Plus the primaries were 1/8" larger than most headers for our cars. Pacesetters are a good inexpensive brand of steel headers.

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Trust me, I looked into other options.
BBK ceramic is an option and reuse my magnaflow cats for about $700 and a.little welding. I have read that BBK quality isnt what it used to be and have shitty welds now.
$160 ebay no brand LTH that need to be "clearanced" for steering shaft.

Need more info on the BBKs.

Juice said:

Damn you guys. lol. I want LTH and cats.... Its only $2000-ish for the setup.
If I do upgrade, will dyno before and after. (Have to re-dyno anyway, but thats another story)

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LOL, you know what they say -- buy once, cry once! I wish I'd known this whole thing about different cats back when I got my original setup. Even still, my JBA headers were cheap and while I'm not all that impressed with the fit & finish but they do the job. American Racing or Kooks headers - a lot more crying.

My car's been paid off for 10 yrs in Oct so sinking $2500 isn't that much compared to 10 years of car payments ($350/mo x 120 mo....$42k! No I'm not counting what I've spent on mods )

cavero said:

LOL, you know what they say -- buy once, cry once! I wish I'd known this whole thing about different cats back when I got my original setup. Even still, my JBA headers were cheap and while I'm not all that impressed with the fit & finish but they do the job. American Racing or Kooks headers - a lot more crying.

My car's been paid off for 10 yrs in Oct so sinking $2500 isn't that much compared to 10 years of car payments ($350/mo x 120 mo....$42k! No I'm not counting what I've spent on mods )

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My biggest concern is not as much the $$$, but not getting the HP gains AFTER spending the money. Yes, I would dyno before and after w/tune. Although from what I'm reading, the coyote pcm learns LTH headers, and ppl who changed the transport delay in the tune can't really tell if it did anything. LOL Car does not need new exhaust, so power gains are the only reason I want them!

cavero said:

LOL, you know what they say -- buy once, cry once! I wish I'd known this whole thing about different cats back when I got my original setup.

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I gotta wear these shoes myself...............

I bought\installed a Kooks LTH\catted midpipe combo-not the GREEN cat version & have come up short so to fix it "right" now will cost me approx the same as it did to buy the entire combo, whether I buy the 2 Kooks GREEN cats separate then get them welded in my existing midpipe OR buy a whole new Kooks GREEN catted midpipe assembly & install it myself!

So yeah I'm crying..................

I was rereading thru this copy of the US Fed EPA rules I have & noticed that there seems to be a potential loop hole on using a non-stock dual exhaust w\ cats in a certified production vehicle that came factory equipped w\ dual exhaust w\ cats if the aftermarket cats used have some type of EPA approved guidelines so the EPA leaves this scenario up to the States to quantify\govern\enforce. It gives a phone number to call to find this info out but since I don't have\own a legit licensed muffler shop I don't think they'll give this info out to me anyway but the publication date on this document is 3/91 so is also a little outdated.........