Will there will be a run on S197 cars shortly?

Norm Peterson · Feb 1, 2021

LarryJM said:
I was thinking more like 2020 cars.

The only Mustang that tops 4000 lbs that I know of is the GT500.

It took less than a minute to find this (the 2020 sits at 3705 lbs with 460 HP, do the math)

2020 Ford Mustang GT Coupe: Review, Trims, Specs, Price, New Interior Features, Exterior Design, and Specifications | CarBuzz

For sure in the rock paper scissors word, 3460/420 beats 3720/435 at 8 lbs per 1 HP. For 2020, I think they are closer to 4000lbs but I could be wrong. Even at 3760 you would need about 40 HP added to 420 to be even.

Quarter mile performance is a cube root function of weight and power. Meaning that looking at the differences in lbs/HP directly is the wrong approach. From your 3460/420 to the 2020 numbers (above) the ET difference amounts to less than a tenth of a second in the quarter mile. Which doesn't amount to squat on the street or in any other driving that's not being timed to the thousandth of a second.

For street driving, you'd be better off using the weight to torque ratio or even the weight to displacement ratio. Try those.

Norm

LarryJM · Feb 1, 2021

Norm Peterson said:
The only Mustang that tops 4000 lbs that I know of is the GT500.

It took less than a minute to find this (the 2020 sits at 3705 lbs with 460 HP, do the math)

2020 Ford Mustang GT Coupe: Review, Trims, Specs, Price, New Interior Features, Exterior Design, and Specifications | CarBuzz

Quarter mile performance is a cube root function of weight and power. Meaning that looking at the differences in lbs/HP directly is the wrong approach. From your 3460/420 to the 2020 numbers (above) the ET difference amounts to less than a tenth of a second in the quarter mile. Which doesn't amount to squat on the street or in any other driving that's not being timed to the thousandth of a second.

For street driving, you'd be better off using the weight to torque ratio or even the weight to displacement ratio. Try those.

Norm

Lets do the math. 3460/420 vs 3720/460. That's a 260 lbs difference at about 8 lbs per HP. So the 2020 has a 7.5 HP advantage sprayed cylinder walls with a motor tick and all. Now if your a fat ass or have a heavy set girlfriend or wife, you lose the advantage. Again out of all the test drives I could muster before the Virus, the ZL-1 at about 4200 lbs was the fastest. The Black Key only gives the 4400 lbs Hellcat 500hp and the 4000 lbs GT-500 was in the showroom. All were $60,000+

Shaffe · Feb 1, 2021

Rich said:
You say the 3V is meh and it pushes 300 to the crank, has a better chassis, beefier axles and better styling, but your 04 only pushed 260 to the crank, in stock trim, and that wasn't meh? I don't understand your rationale...unless your 04 was modified.

I think it was more sentimental lol. My 04 was my first Mustang. The 07 had much better interior, newer, and was faster. I just enjoyed my 2004 more. I just never had that connection to my 07.

06 T-RED S/C GT said:
What do you think the definition of retro-styling is there, Slick? That was Ford's intention when they introduced the fifth generation Mustangs in back 2004. Say what you will about the styling of the 05-09 cars as looking super dated, but if it had not been for the huge success of the 2005-09 S197 models, Dodge would had never brought back the Challenger from extinction after a 31 year hiatus, which btw: hasn't had a major re-style since it was re-introduced back in 2008. Same can also be said for the Crapmaro since being re-introduced in 2010. Also FYI: the 4.6L 3v was ranked as one of the best and most reliable engines by Montgomery Ward. Also 300 HP. at the crank was far from being just meh until GM resurrected the Crapmaro back from the dead in 2010. Then Ford bounced back with the 5.0 Coyote the following year in 2011 and the rest is history. Also, just so you know, the styling changes of the S197 Mustang first took place in 2010 and remained unchanged until the 2013 model year!

I know that was the intent with the retro styling. What I said was once the S197 got it's first face lift, it really made the 05-09 cars look dated or if you want a better term it made the styling stale looking. I think the 10-12 and 13/14s still look fantastic. The slight revisions to the front and rear fascias just nailed the look imo and because those look so good, to me it makes the 05-09's look blah.

tjm73 · Feb 1, 2021

Shaffe said:
I think it was more sentimental lol. My 04 was my first Mustang. The 07 had much better interior, newer, and was faster. I just enjoyed my 2004 more. I just never had that connection to my 07.

That was pretty much how my 2005 was. Great car. Way better than the other Mustangs I've owned. Like another level better. But I never felt connected to it. I ended up going back to a '93 GT. For all it's obvious faults, I still enjoy driving it a lot more.

eighty6gt · Feb 1, 2021

My 08 drives exactly like my old fox did, except instead of falling behind to new minivans it can actually keep up. The experience is reasonably identical, lots of tire spin, noise, excitement. Shitty ride.

Very, very soon it will be one of the slower cars on the road.

LarryJM · Feb 1, 2021

Here you go.

Rich · Feb 1, 2021

Shaffe said:
I think it was more sentimental lol. My 04 was my first Mustang. The 07 had much better interior, newer, and was faster. I just enjoyed my 2004 more. I just never had that connection to my 07.

Makes complete sense now. Feelings and sentiment play a huge part in why we love certain cars more than others. I completely understand

Rich · Feb 1, 2021

LarryJM said:
Here you go.

View attachment 76354

View attachment 76355

That SC air inlet tube looks similar to the one used in the late 80s SC Thunderbird. That's cool.

tjm73 · Feb 1, 2021

LarryJM said:
Here you go.

View attachment 76354

View attachment 76355

That was THE SHIT back in the day.

tjm73 · Feb 1, 2021

eighty6gt said:
My 08 drives exactly like my old fox did, except instead of falling behind to new minivans it can actually keep up.

Boy you aren't kidding! I drove a 2020 Chrysler minivan last Spring that had only 287 hp, but it had a 9 speed transmission and if leaned on, it used all 6400 rpm in every gear. That thing was fast.

Luckily my '93 is not stock, so minivan's are not a concern.

Juice · Feb 1, 2021

tjm73 said:
Boy you aren't kidding! I drove a 2020 Chrysler minivan last Spring that had only 287 hp, but it had a 9 speed transmission and if leaned on, it used all 6400 rpm in every gear. That thing was fast.

Luckily my '93 is not stock, so minivan's are not a concern.

I was following some Honda thingy, a 2 door type. I had to push to keep up with the guy on a nice back road. I was like, shit that thing moves pretty good. lol

OX1 · Feb 1, 2021

tjm73 said:
That was THE SHIT back in the day.

Not for me. I stumbled on a beat up AWD Talon in the early 90's and with just a boost controller, I was hooked on turbos. Got my Cartech kit in 95ish. No one was running turbos back then. (only went blower on 14 due to possibly needing visual emission check, someday). Here she is updated/cleaned up recently.

Redrebel13 · Feb 1, 2021

.."fat and ugly"... he said you were fat and ugly.
Don't listen to him I think you're beautiful R.J.!..

06 T-RED S/C GT · Feb 1, 2021

Shaffe said:
I think it was more sentimental lol. My 04 was my first Mustang. The 07 had much better interior, newer, and was faster. I just enjoyed my 2004 more. I just never had that connection to my 07.

I can surely understand and respect that you enjoyed and had a sentimental connection to your '04' over the '07' but I still don't quite understand how you could claim the 4.6L 3v making 300HP at the crank was just meh, but yet your '04' 4.6L 2v was making 260HP at the crank :shrug:

Shaffe said:
I know that was the intent with the retro styling. What I said was once the S197 got it's first face lift, it really made the 05-09 cars look dated or if you want a better term it made the styling stale looking. I think the 10-12 and 13/14s still look fantastic. The slight revisions to the front and rear fascias just nailed the look imo and because those look so good, to me it makes the 05-09's look blah.

My opinion is just the opposite, I really didn't like how the front and rear fascias looked on the 10-14 cars, the rear fascia to me had that diaper look to it, while the lower front fascia had the appearance of having muttonchops on it. Also, no offense, but when the 13-14's arrived, I also didn't like the front grille.. IMO, it began to look more like the shape of the mouth of a catfish or wide mouth bass, but again that's just my opinion. The 2005-09 cars on the other hand, had a much cleaner/subtle look to them. However, for what it's worth, the 2005-09 cars had only one major styling flaw compared to the 2010-14 models. They were missing hips on the quarter panels.

Norm Peterson · Feb 1, 2021

LarryJM said:
Lets do the math. 3460/420 vs 3720/460. That's a 260 lbs difference at about 8 lbs per HP. So the 2020 has a 7.5 HP advantage

Which isn't enough to even begin to worry about. Never mind those other things.

Norm

eighty6gt · Feb 1, 2021

I wonder what the new Mach 1 weighs ready to hit the track. Has a lot of cooling etc. on board.

golkhl · Feb 1, 2021

Too much $ in fossil fuels for all vehicles to become electric.......

Shaffe · Feb 1, 2021

06 T-RED S/C GT said:
I can surely understand and respect that you enjoyed and had a sentimental connection to your '04' over the '07' but I still don't quite understand how you could claim the 4.6L 3v making 300HP at the crank was just meh, but yet your '04' 4.6L 2v was making 260HP at the crank

I'll admit my original post wasn't worded the best but I was trying to say the 3V was meh compared to the coyote since this thread is about all S197s. Basically in terms of overall S197 the 11-14 cars IMO put the 05-10s to shame in terms of looks, power, etc. Like if I was looking for a used Mustang, and wanted an S197 I wouldn't consider an 05-10 for any reason over an 11-14

Yes I know my 07 was faster than my 04, but my 04 sounded way better hahaha.

Shaffe said:
I didn't get a chance to read the whole thread but maybe the Coyote powered cars.

The 05-10 cars are nice, but IMO the styling looks super dated, especially compared to the 11-12 and 13/14. Also the 3V was a very meh engine.

06 T-RED S/C GT · Feb 1, 2021

Shaffe said:
I'll admit my original post wasn't worded the best but I was trying to say the 3V was meh compared to the coyote since this thread is about all S197s. Basically in terms of overall S197 the 11-14 cars IMO put the 05-10s to shame in terms of looks, power, etc. Like if I was looking for a used Mustang, and wanted an S197 I wouldn't consider an 05-10 for any reason over an 11-14

Yes I know my 07 was faster than my 04, but my 04 sounded way better hahaha.

Thanks for clarifying, it's all good :waytogo:

WJBertrand · Feb 1, 2021

Pentalab said:
Look, I have been around the block more than a few times, and then some. Buddy's 2011 is a COYOTE. The 11-12 cars all say "5.0" on the sides. My 2010 sez..." GT" on each side, that's the ONLY difference between a 2010...and a 2011/2012. Trust me, we have lined up dozens and dozens and dozens of 2010-2011-2012 mustang's side by side at car shows.

The headlights, grill and twilights are all different from the 2010 and later models. Easy to tell them apart.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Will there will be a run on S197 cars shortly?

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