Will there will be a run on S197 cars shortly?

Juice

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I had no idea the Livewire was done, or the plummeting stocks. Cost was always high with HD. But clearly they did not put much effort into changing with the market. One thing I did notice the last few years is the price of the bikes coming into a more reasonable range. Kinda makes sense with the stock price. Market trend in bikes has been the adventure bikes, a good touring bike with some off road capabilities. And HD offered nothing in that market.
 

eighty6gt

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HD is fucked.

The world is changing. My wife went to the mall, she _could not_ buy a french press. There were none. There was a plethora of new stores, but they were all selling chinese stuffed toys and garbage at rock bottom prices. Hudsons bay company exists but is not paying rent and is running out their inventory.

We have progressed to a point in consumerism to where you can't buy something good with convenience. No, amazon doesn't have the coffee machine we want, either. I had a breville, but they have since gotten rid of customer service, and they are bleeding out the last of the value of the brand. This is important because bad reviews are real and bad reviews aggregate quickly. The sooner the better, in my opinion. Companies should be punished for selling junk, and punished worse for selling expensive junk. If something worthy can't be produced at an acceptable price point, it should not be produced! The market will handle this! I hope!

Good things (I bet the livewire is good...) cost a ton of money because dollars are small, and less and less people can afford them. Hence, the chinese garbage stores. This trickles down into cordless tools and even combination wrenches.


TL/DR: Brands (maybe even HD, one day,) will make a comeback because people don't want to stand around deciding what to buy, they want to be sure that what they are getting for a ton of money is actually good. Brand value will be self policing because of the internet. Counterfeit goods will disappear with the emergence of blockchain currency. (another discussion...)
 

Juice

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Corporate greed (outsourcing/offshoring) created where we are today. Inucluding lost jobs here in the US of A.
 

eighty6gt

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People don't want to do the work for so little and don't want to pay so much for the product. Demand/expectation for expensive private housing a big part of it.
 

tjm73

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I had no idea the Livewire was done, or the plummeting stocks. Cost was always high with HD. But clearly they did not put much effort into changing with the market. One thing I did notice the last few years is the price of the bikes coming into a more reasonable range. Kinda makes sense with the stock price. Market trend in bikes has been the adventure bikes, a good touring bike with some off road capabilities. And HD offered nothing in that market.

5-10, maybe 15, years ago you could buy a brand new HD ride it for 1-2 years and sell it for what you paid. Possibly a small profit. Today there is a glut of used bikes.

I just jumped on my local Craigslist. 2007 Softtail, $5200. That was twice that new, at least. 2004 Heritage Softtail, $7K. 2002 Fatboy, $8500 (a little high). 2004 Electra Glide, $6200. If you want a Hog, they are easy to get at reasonable used prices. That's 4 good bikes for sale in the dead of winter in Western NY.

No need to pay big new prices when you can have the real deal for a lot less. Exclusivity has evaporated and new blood coming in has scabbed over. Combined with a ton of guys aging out, dying off and also dropping away from the fad of owning a Harley and well...we can see where things look like they are going. They turned it around before. They could do it again. But it does not look good.
 

Juice

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I simply used HD as an example. We demo rode harleys before and I was like, "I dont get it". HD will get assistance like GM and Dodge did from the government, to save the american icon. But they need to do something and soon....
 

tjm73

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I simply used HD as an example. We demo rode harleys before and I was like, "I dont get it". HD will get assistance like GM and Dodge did from the government, to save the american icon. But they need to do something and soon....

Agreed. I was just offering that anecdotal info and as example. At some point emissions standards will kill the air cooled engine. I hope HD is preparing for that.

It's not just Bikes. Last night I was telling my wife that not one car company makes a newer vehicle that I want to spend my money on for a daily driver car when it's time to replace my Focus.
 

Juice

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Im with you on newer cars. Notbing out there (that I can afford or would use as a daily lol) so we will keep what we got and keep fixing as needed. WFH almost emiminated the need for a car! Just go to the store now for beer &food lmao. And vacation trips.
 

eighty6gt

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Agreed. I was just offering that anecdotal info and as example. At some point emissions standards will kill the air cooled engine. I hope HD is preparing for that.

It's not just Bikes. Last night I was telling my wife that not one car company makes a newer vehicle that I want to spend my money on for a daily driver car when it's time to replace my Focus.


We are about to enter an era where it is not about the car but only transportation, and even that is becoming less and less important.

Very very soon you'll have driverless cars with onboard intelligent logistics moving people and goods around cities. I think it's been about 5 years since they started trying this in select sites. The tech will mature fast.
 

LikeabossTM

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We are about to enter an era where it is not about the car but only transportation, and even that is becoming less and less important.

Very very soon you'll have driverless cars with onboard intelligent logistics moving people and goods around cities. I think it's been about 5 years since they started trying this in select sites. The tech will mature fast.
6G is required to support data flow for flying cars and machine/human neural interfaces. Nokia has recently been selected to head up a 6G european steering committee.

That's only 1G away! [emoji16]
 

Juice

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We are about to enter an era where it is not about the car but only transportation, and even that is becoming less and less important.

Very very soon you'll have driverless cars with onboard intelligent logistics moving people and goods around cities. I think it's been about 5 years since they started trying this in select sites. The tech will mature fast.

It will ALWAYS be about the car on my end. lol
And self driving cars scare me. Computers never crash......rrright
 

tjm73

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There are times where I would welcome self driving. But mostly I'm not interested. Highways would be good places for self driving. Regular roads not so much.
 

Norm Peterson

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It will ALWAYS be about the car on my end. lol
Agreed.

Driving for me is as much about me having to do my part during the journey as it is about getting to my destination. I can't picture myself ever settling for mere 'mobility'.


self driving cars scare me. Computers never crash......rrright
Bet that's what the people who signed off on the original 737 Max told each other . . .


Norm
 

eighty6gt

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I'm sure I'm not breaking this to you guys but we're going to age out and die.
 

eighty6gt

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cars are going to go to centralized charging areas (automatically, under own power, potentially towed by other cars in trains.) This will alleviate grid concerns. Power can be generated anywhere via any means. Shit, my province is selling power to texas! Neat! Freakin electrons.
 

weather man

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We are about to enter an era where it is not about the car but only transportation, and even that is becoming less and less important.

Very very soon you'll have driverless cars with onboard intelligent logistics moving people and goods around cities. I think it's been about 5 years since they started trying this in select sites. The tech will mature fast.

The lawyers are lined up and waiting for these driverless cars. They won't settle for the driver policy limit, they will go for the corporate deep pockets. Buy a driverless car and see what your rates will be. Companies trying to send fleets of driverless cars out will be eaten alive by a sea of piranha lawyers.
 

LikeabossTM

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The lawyers are lined up and waiting for these driverless cars. They won't settle for the driver policy limit, they will go for the corporate deep pockets. Buy a driverless car and see what your rates will be. Companies trying to send fleets of driverless cars out will be eaten alive by a sea of piranha lawyers.
I wonder if a section 230 like piece of legislation will be crafted to defang the piranhas. Perhaps alongside a defined compensation fund.
 

eighty6gt

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Social media giants aren't liable for _anything_ posted on their platforms. You can use them to incite riots. Loss of property, life.


Same same with the cars. Big business. Its what is good for you.
 

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