WE SHOULDN'T TALK ABOUT NOTHING BUT THE RPM ACT!!!!!

eighty6gt

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It is hard to start controlling people's behavior without going to far, comrade
 

JEWC_Motorsports

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Explain this, in Texas a vehicle is only required to have a cat after 1984. (one can delete the cat prior to 1984 because its not an inspectable item) What makes all the cars prior so clean? See how stupid the laws are. Texas isn't the only state this way.
 

Dino Dino Bambino

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What's really silly is they don't even measure emissions at the tail pipe anymore.

I agree that's just plain stupid. How would the EPA know if your exhaust is emitting more harmful gases if they aren't measuring them? I guess they just make assumptions based on an ECU code scan that determines if emissions monitors have been tampered with, and a visual inspection to see if the cats have been removed.

Explain this, in Texas a vehicle is only required to have a cat after 1984. (one can delete the cat prior to 1984 because its not an inspectable item) What makes all the cars prior so clean?

They aren't, and I agree that the laws are stupid and need to be revised with a commonsense approach.
FYI, there is very little if any gains to be had from minor bolt ons and tuning anymore.

That's not entirely true and my car is living proof.
 

86GT351

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I agree that's just plain stupid. How would the EPA know if your exhaust is emitting more harmful gases if they aren't measuring them? I guess they just make assumptions based on an ECU code scan that determines if emissions monitors have been tampered with, and a visual inspection to see if the cats have been removed.



They aren't, and I agree that the laws are stupid and need to be revised with a commonsense approach.


That's not entirely true and my car is living proof.

Didn't JR in his video basically say they have a car with Long Tubes, E85 and Modified Exhaust that passes the tests?
 

MasterofDisaster

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I don't think the Act has been introduced in this congress. It was introduced as S. 2602 and H.R. 5434 in 2019. The Senate bill never went anywhere. The House bill evidently died in the Subcommittee on Environment and Climate Change.

This should be simple.
 

luillo

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I don't think the Act has been introduced in this congress. It was introduced as S. 2602 and H.R. 5434 in 2019. The Senate bill never went anywhere. The House bill evidently died in the Subcommittee on Environment and Climate Change.

This should be simple.

Correct but what is to change now with the new push by Uncle Sam?

If we let them, if we don’t get a voice. Is saying we don’t care and let them push and change all we know in the hobby.


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Dino Dino Bambino

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Didn't JR in his video basically say they have a car with Long Tubes, E85 and Modified Exhaust that passes the tests?

Yes I recall reading that and it's cause for optimism. The big game changer here is the E85 as it's much cleaner burning than gasoline with much lower CO2 and NOx emissions. If bioethanol can be produced ecologically and in sufficient quantity, the internal combustion engine may yet live on for the foreseeable future, and hotrodders like us may still get to continue enjoying our hobby.

Sorry, your car is old in this context. WOT fuel can be loptimized with a tune.

Yeah, you don't have to remind me that I'm an old fart who feels lobotomized when he goes WOT on a bottle of scotch. ;)
 
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86GT351

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Yes I recall reading that and it's cause for optimism. The big game changer here is the E85 as it's much cleaner burning than gasoline with much lower CO2 and NOx emissions. If bioethanol can be produced ecologically and in sufficient quantity, the internal combustion engine may yet live on for the foreseeable future, and hotrodders like us may still get to continue enjoying our hobby.



Yeah, you don't have to remind me that I'm an old fart who feels lobotomized when he goes WOT on a bottle of scotch. ;)
Did someone say Scotch?
 

Juice

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Haha Dino! What I was implying here is with the introduction of full time closed loop, fueling WILL be what is programmed. Aka "modern" cars.
Pass that bottle o'scotch!
 

BottleRocket

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I installed a pair of used BBK long tubes on ebay which came with an off road mid pipe. The gentleman took them off his car at the request of his local smog police. I went ahead and spent the money for a high flow cat mid pipe because, although we don't have smog checks here in SE Arizona, the thought of a high dollar fine was disturbing. It runs great with the 'smog legal' mid pipe. Like I said, we don't have smog checks here. I moved here from California in 1991. I hope I never have to go back. My car guy friends in Cali are always telling me about the latest harassment from the smog police. They're coming after our guns and our hot rods (Arizona is also a 'Constitutional Carry' state). There's plenty of room here but please don't bring your liberal leanings with you.
 

AboStangster

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Hey all,
This is a very interesting and disturbing thread.
EPA guidelines are required for manufactures and drivers. You may cringe at this example but, I live in the great white North.

In Canada land, specifically in the province (state) of Ontario they were performing emissions tests every two years on all cars older than 2 years old. They didn't car about mods as long as you passed the tests. The Gov't set guidelines based on the age of the cars/trucks. If you didn't pass, you had one more chance within that year to pass or you couldn't re-register or re-plate your car for the road the following year until you proved the problems were fixed by a licensed mechanic and a clean test. They successfully got alot of the right cars and trucks off the road, but also made it more difficult for those of us who wanted to mod our exhaust with X or H Pipes; updated Catalytic Coverters and Cat-Back Mufflers were ok, unless they were fake straight pipes and depending on your updated flash programs, most would be fine. They didn't care that you upped you HP to 1000, as long as your car passed emmissions.

The program ran for close to 20 years and was fairly successful, but became more of a money grab and very frustrating for those of us wanting all of the eye candy to mod our cars with, without having to rip it out every two years. A new Conservative Gov't was elected and canned the program last year.
 

tjm73

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Yes I recall reading that and it's cause for optimism. The big game changer here is the E85 as it's much cleaner burning than gasoline with much lower CO2 and NOx emissions. If bioethanol can be produced ecologically and in sufficient quantity, the internal combustion engine may yet live on for the foreseeable future, and hotrodders like us may still get to continue enjoying our hobby.

There is no cause for optimism with E85. It's dying fuel option. It's down to 2 stations carrying it in the Rochester NY area. Probably serving "racers". Was widely available a few years ago. Also the EPA does not care what you do or if you pass or what fuel you run. They only care that you don't tamper with the certified configuration shipped from the factory. Change/diminish/turn off any emissions control piece of the puzzle, mechanical or electronic, and you are out of compliance.

You could take the dirtiest fully functional running 3V on the planet and remove any or even all of the emissions stuff and make it run super clean........and it'd be non-compliant under the EPA rules. It's either there and functioning within parameters or not.
 
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luillo

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There is no cause for optimism with E85. It's dying fuel option. It's down to 2 stations carrying it in the Rochester NY area. Probably serving "racers". Was widely available a few years ago. Also the EPA does not care what you do or if you pass or what fuel you run. They only care that you don't tamper with the certified configuration shipped from the factory. Change/diminish/turn off any emissions control piece of the puzzle, mechanical or electronic, and you are out of compliance.

You could take the dirtiest fully functional running 3V on the planet and remove any or even all of the emissions stuff and make it run super clean........and it'd be non-compliant under the EPA rules. It's either there and functioning within parameters or not.

That’s what is scary. I love U.S. but communist stuff like this makes me look on options to retire at. Love, LOVE, USA but I hope we get this issue cleared and well represented. For us enthusiast, the environment because we can run badass fast emission clean cars with clear defined guidelines and regulations.


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eighty6gt

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There is no future for modified cars because it costs too much to create two sets of rules. Slowly it will all bleed out - attrition being the reason. Anyone keeping an old 2015 jalopy will eventually be left alone as 99% of them are in the scrapyard, I'm just hoping blanket exemptions are enacted.

I don't expect either of my old garbage vehicles will ever be subject to a smog check. There's no money to set it up.
 

Shaffe

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Explain this, in Texas a vehicle is only required to have a cat after 1984. (one can delete the cat prior to 1984 because its not an inspectable item) What makes all the cars prior so clean? See how stupid the laws are. Texas isn't the only state this way.

It makes no sense.

here in illinois

  • Antique vehicles, expanded-use antique vehicles, custom vehicles, street rods, and vehicles of model year 1967 or before.
  • Vehicles of model year 1995 or before that were in compliance with the Illinois Vehicle Emissions Inspection Law on February 1, 2007
So 95 and older no need to pass emissions anymore.

Or if you get collector or special use plates you are exempt.

It makes 0 sense
 

tjm73

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That’s what is scary. I love U.S. but communist stuff like this makes me look on options to retire at. Love, LOVE, USA but I hope we get this issue cleared and well represented. For us enthusiast, the environment because we can run badass fast emission clean cars with clear defined guidelines and regulations.

I disagree that this is "communist" stuff. If anything it's "you're too selfish to act on your own so we'll define what you can/can't do for you" stuff. For a performance engine they should define tailpipe emissions. Because that's want matters. For evaporitive fuel emissions define what it is, how to measure it and what the levels should be limited too. Most of this is already defined. I think the aftermarket and buying public would for the most part respond in kind. And I am confident the industry would have a resurgence to levels higher than we've seen.

I live in a pretty rural area and our air quality is improved since I was a kid. Cars are way cleaner now than ever before and that's a good thing. We've all seen the side by side pics of California pollution in different time periods. They are the extreme example, but we all benefited from these laws even if we didn't/don't like them very much.

We're several decades into this so it's past time to establish meaningful attainable guidelines and let the aftermarket innovate and deliver the performance we desire with the cleanliness we need.
 

tjm73

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It makes no sense.

here in illinois

  • Antique vehicles, expanded-use antique vehicles, custom vehicles, street rods, and vehicles of model year 1967 or before.
  • Vehicles of model year 1995 or before that were in compliance with the Illinois Vehicle Emissions Inspection Law on February 1, 2007
So 95 and older no need to pass emissions anymore.

Or if you get collector or special use plates you are exempt.

It makes 0 sense

Similar in NY. Western anyway. Once a car/truck enters the 26th calendar year since it's manufacturer it is a safety only NY Inspection. Good tires, lights, horn, mirrors, no leaks, no excessively cracked glass. Emissions stuff is not even looked at or given a second thought.
 

86GT351

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Similar in NY. Western anyway. Once a car/truck enters the 26th calendar year since it's manufacturer it is a safety only NY Inspection. Good tires, lights, horn, mirrors, no leaks, no excessively cracked glass. Emissions stuff is not even looked at or given a second thought.
Did you say safety inspection? I grew up in Philadelphia and then lived in New Jersey before moving to South Florida. We always had inspections. Being in the business, it would be great if we had a Mandated inspection here in Florida. Few reasons. 1st it would get all the junk off the roads. 2nd it would naturally increase productivity at the Auto Shops choosing to be part of the Inspection process. At times I am bewildered at what is driving on the roads here in South Florida. Most would be an automatic Inspection Failure and you would get a BIG RED 24 Hour Sticker on the windshield. Basically putting a bullseye on the vehicle. When the POPO would see it you get pulled over and the vehicle gets impounded.
 

Juice

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PA is not that lenient. 25 years and older still gets a visual emission inspection. No cats still fail. But we get exempted under 5000 miles /year. Visual only.

Tailpipe testing is nearly impossible for all driving conditions. You can pass at low speeds but be a rollin coal thing when you go WOT. Shit we used to go by "must have some black smoke" when tuning carbed engines! Before widebands that was.
 

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