Gen 1 5.0 block strength

I want to start an engine build to 1000+hp, currently have a 14' 5.0. I want to know if I should just start with a Gen 3 short block or is the Gen 1 block reliable when built compared to the Gen 3.

I know I said "reliable" and "1000+hp" in the same paragraph

Thanks

I would prefer a gen 1 or gen 2. Gen 3 intake, gen 2 heads, gen 1 block is ideal.

Generally speaking, you get into the danger zone of "Boom" when exceeding twice the HP. So anything much over 800, to me, is a ticking timebomb. The coyotes seem to pop from oil pump failure. A friend just had the engine replaced by Ford in a GT350. Was stock, 15K miles, oil pump was found to be the root cause. Warranty paid for it.

SanicSpeed said:

I want to start an engine build to 1000+hp, currently have a 14' 5.0. I want to know if I should just start with a Gen 3 short block or is the Gen 1 block reliable when built compared to the Gen 3.

I know I said "reliable" and "1000+hp" in the same paragraph

Thanks

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I'd suggest you start out with a junkyard gen 2 long block from a '15-'17 GT and build it from there. It already has a forged crankshaft & connecting rods so you'd only need forged pistons (not sure if it has them already), an oil pump with billet gears, and gen 1 timing components.
You could use a gen 3 intake manifold if you take the centrifugal supercharger or turbo route but if you opt for a positive displacement supercharger, you could opt for a used '20-'21 GT500 version. I think twin turbos would be the easiest route to 1000+hp as you'd achieve that number with less boost, and you don't have the parasitic HP losses from a crankshaft driven supercharger. The oil pump gears would also have an easier time as there'd be no supercharger belt applying extra tension on the crankshaft snout.

Do you have a $15-20,000 engine budget? Do you have a budget for the transmission? What about the suspension? Chassis mods? You will need to be able to contain and put that power to the ground.

You're talking almost 3X the stock rated power.

tjm73 said:

Do you have a $15-20,000 engine budget? Do you have a budget for the transmission? What about the suspension? Chassis mods? You will need to be able to contain and put that power to the ground.

You're talking almost 3X the stock rated power.

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Details details..... lmao

Thanks for the replies so far guys. Im not worried about a budget because I am going to take my time with this build and make sure its done right and not rushed. I know about the chassis and the rest of the car but I am asking if building my Gen 1 block would be better to handle that power compared to the Gen 3 because of the differences in both blocks physically.

Gen 1 blocks tend to split the cylinder bore open in the Y-axis at large boost/power production levels.

Here is a Gen1/Gen 2 Typical block. Note lack of support at the top and bottom of the bore.



Here is the Gen 3 block. Note the added castings for bore strength.

tjm73 said:

Here is the Gen 3 block. Note the added castings for bore strength.

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That's because the gen 3 blocks are not sleeved. Gens 1 and 2 have sleeved bores.

You are implying the gen 3 is significantly stronger than 1 and 2. Not so.

phobik05 said:

You are implying the gen 3 is significantly stronger than 1 and 2.

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No. I am not. I am not saying any such thing. Stronger? Yes. Significantly? Not necessarily.

I know this. When the 5.0 DOHC came out there were several documented cases of the cylinders blowing out of them. Yup holes right through the side of the bore into the water jackets. When the Gen 3 came along that all pretty much went away. Having a steel sleeve or not is neither a benefit or a detriment. Until it's time to rebuild anyway.

phobik05, I didn't even know about the sleeves in Gen 1 & 2 blocks but I always was under the impression that sleeves would strengthen the cylinder at high hp no?

So the Gen 3 block would be the way to go then if I wanted to build the motor up to 1000+hp because of the added casting?

Really appreciate all this info guys, I cant wait to begin this build

tjm73 said:

Having a steel sleeve or not is neither a benefit or a detriment.

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It is a massive benefit.

Ford reverted to plasma transferred wire arc thermal spray bore lining of the cylinder walls instead of steel liners in order to allow a slightly larger bore size in the gen 3. The block casting was beefed up to compensate for the absence of the steel liners.
Under the high boost conditions required to produce 1000+hp, steel cylinder liners are less likely to distort than softer aluminium bores.

Gen 1 blocks still need to be sleeved for high hp applications.

phobik05 said:

It is a massive benefit.

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Not if they are insufficient to contain the pressures from big boost. Which the factory liners have proven unable to contain several times. You know which block doesn't have this issue? The 3V Mustang block. Sleeves AND those y-axis reinforcements.

I'm a little late to this party and have had a couple of Gen1 and now a Gen3 I'll give my 2cents worth.
If I were going to build any Coyote, I'd sleeve it with thick liners, deep six the total rotating assembly and go all forged. Yes, I know the factory crank is forged, but was never meant to handle 1000hp, 760hp, sure, but if you want a reliable 1000hp+ engine, do yourself a favor and use an aftermarket like Crower, Moldex, Bryant. Also throw the "Forged" OE rods as far as you can, or sell them, get some good rods that will not keep you awake at night, same with the pistons.
The Gen3 heads would be my choice as they flow almost as much as the CNC'd GT 350 heads.
The oil pump drive doesn't need to mentioned because it needs to be replaced even if you are shooting for a much lower number.
I've had a sub 10 second door slammer that was N/A and was impressed with my 19GT PP1/A10 turning 11.9's @ 117 in the quarter totally stock after 1/2 day of test and tune.
I put 12psi to my mostly stock 97 Cobra one time, any only lost a ring land, that's when I decided to go with an aftermarket rotating assembly that would withstand 15psi.
Like any engine you build, the attention to detail in machine work and mixing and matching the right parts will give you reliability. Sure you can use the stock crank and stock rods and cross your fingers every time you put your right foot to the floor, but for me...I don't want to have to even think about it because I know it was put together correctly and with best parts I could afford...do what you want because in the end it's your money.

For the record, do not mistake the thin stock cast-in place liners in the gen 1 and 2 blocks with an aftermarket sleeve.
For a coyote, you need to at least do a flanged sleeve that integrates into the deck for stability and if you have the cash and a machine shop comfortable with it, you can go to Darton's MID sleeves. Both the flanged sleeves and the MID sleeves add the structure to the deck that the Gen 1 and Gen 2 blocks don't have at the top of the water jackets.

I would think if your shooting for that much HP, and you want some good longevity from the block going with sleeves is a no brainer. Now I remember seeing above 1k, there was issues with the 11mm headstuds? I was told using a 11-12 gen1 block that uses the 12mm headstuds that go further down into the block and doing sleeves would be the hot ticket for 1000whp. I think some places will modify the 11mm block to accept the longer studs. But maybe that’s more of an issue if your pushing 1200-1300hp. Not quite sure. I plan on just doing a forged rotating assembly in my 13 and max out my vmp Gen 2. And whatever that gets, it gets. It’s a rabbit hole lol