Pinpoint suspension failure / incorrect geometries.

Juice

forum member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Posts
4,622
Reaction score
1,904
Competition is still pretty serious even at the autocross and road course Time Trial levels. Where tire and other contingencies may be at stake.

Never mind that if you need to consider suitability for running HPDE in the wet, neither NT01s nor R888Rs belong on your "go-to" list.


Norm
I actually bought the R888Rs so I can run in the rain without changing tire. Done wore'em out, (~2000 track miles) and not one drop of rain. lol
I have been on track w/NT01s and it started raining. I was surprized just how well the 01s worked in the wet.
Neither of those is a slick. I would tiptoe back to the pits if caught in the rain with full slicks.
Thats been my first hand experience. ;)
 

Norm Peterson

corner barstool sitter
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Posts
3,615
Reaction score
316
Location
RIP - You will be missed
Probably not quite this wet, though . . . rainy days out here tend to look more like this.

[/url]


FWIW, I've run RT615s at autocross under similar conditions with better than expected results given their huge outer tread blocks.

Just a couple more data points.


Norm
 

Juice

forum member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Posts
4,622
Reaction score
1,904
The 615 is a great tire. Im rocking a set on mine now! It used to be a bargain, but price has crept up.
Ps: for the curious as to why I put the Falkens on. Not worn out, but not track worthy anymore. They need to be worn out.
:driver:
Where is that emoji with tire marks???
 

Macman45

Resident Geriatric
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Posts
1,446
Reaction score
172
Location
Atlanta / Bay Area
Some observations.

1. Like many have said - don't just throw money and parts at the car. Get a real alignment, scan in the sheet, post it up here. Then ditch the 2" lowering springs - that is causing problems.

10317623_670953959644591_3927480287834422281_o-L.jpg


2. NOBODY READING THIS POST NEEDS A BUMP STEER KIT. There, I said it. That is for cars lowered a TREMENDOUS amount, more than the Bolt On Billy lowering springs, more than almost any coilover kit. This is something people buy simply because shops sell these kits. The car above had no bump steer correction even lowered 3" on proper coilovers (AST, Moton, and MCS kits were run on this car) - 2" lower on the dampers/springs, 1" lower on tire height. It didn't have any bump steer. That is mostly internet tall tales.

DSC_2057-L.jpg


3. Nitto tires are garbage. GARBAGE. Nobody serious in competition uses Nitto or Toyo tires. The latter is required in some Spec classes because Toyo BOUGHT INTO THOSE SERIES. I say this as an idiot who also bought and tried to compete on Nitto tires (above) and having wasted money on Toyo tires in the past, too.

These two brands tend to have terrible performance, terrible wear, and are not competitive in any form of timed Motorsport. They are popular because: A) they make some funky sizes B) Are cheap C) Drifters D) Hard parkers.

4. Lowering any S197 TWO INCHES on OEM length struts and shocks introduces a lot of BAD things, namely - RUNNING OUT OF BUMP TRAVEL. This is due to the fact that the lowering amount automatically reduces suspension travel in the BUMP direction when you leave the shock and strut lengths stock.

IMG_9182-L.jpg


This is why all coilover struts/shocks are SHORTER than the OEM lengths (typically by 1 to 2 inches). This is no accident. The shorter length allows for more bump travel, while it will give you less total suspension travel. We have helped shock makers from 4 companies design new shock/strut setups for over 20 different chassis (the 6th gen Camaro strut from MCS above was 1" shorter than stock, but with the bottom of the strut housing pushed below the stock brackets we gained that all back) - this is literally what I do for a living.

No bolt-on part will fix this issue on the OPs car, short of tossing all of that FRPP stuff in the trash and starting over with properly designed suspension.

I am honestly not trying to pick on the OP, but he did ask this in the corner carvers / racing tech sub-form. Which means you get answers from racers and suspension designers... like me. :)


Cheers!


Thanks for the detailed reply. BUT I didn’t put this in corner carve as I don’t track. Mods moved my thread from Chat because some of the hardcore trackers like Norm derailed the thread into track stuff. In conclusion, new shocks and struts fixed everything as stated above. Thanks all!
 

Norm Peterson

corner barstool sitter
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Posts
3,615
Reaction score
316
Location
RIP - You will be missed
Thanks for the detailed reply. BUT I didn’t put this in corner carve as I don’t track. Mods moved my thread from Chat because some of the hardcore trackers like Norm derailed the thread into track stuff. In conclusion, new shocks and struts fixed everything as stated above. Thanks all!
Sorry, but you were complaining about turn-in response, and the solutions for that unavoidably get into "track stuff thinking". After all, the same principles apply, just at lower lateral g-levels.

Keep in mind that I was also responding to other people whose thoughts were not particularly related to yours.

FWIW, good shocks and struts are a huge part of something called "composure" - both with respect to the car's behavior and your trust in the car to behave like that.


Just a hint . . . "whipping the steering wheel" is about the best way I can think of for a driver to make turn-in response worse. You're overloading the tires with too much steering too fast. Fix this - slow those steering inputs down - and I'll guarantee that you'll like how the car behaves much better.


Norm
 

Juice

forum member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Posts
4,622
Reaction score
1,904
Just a hint . . . "whipping the steering wheel" is about the best way I can think of for a driver to make turn-in response worse. You're overloading the tires with too much steering too fast. Fix this - slow those steering inputs down - and I'll guarantee that you'll like how the car behaves much better.


Norm
And then there is "throwing the car" into a corner....
But thats another subject all together.
 

Vorshlag-Fair

Official Site Vendor
Official Vendor
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Posts
1,592
Reaction score
107
Location
Dallas, TX
Thanks for the detailed reply. BUT I didn’t put this in corner carve as I don’t track. Mods moved my thread from Chat because some of the hardcore trackers like Norm derailed the thread into track stuff. In conclusion, new shocks and struts fixed everything as stated above. Thanks all!

i-D4dSwqR-L.jpg
 

Latest posts

Support us!

Support Us - Become A Supporting Member Today!

Click Here For Details

Sponsor Links

Banner image
Back
Top