Anyone have dyno before and after FRPP Hot Rod Cams and tune?

Aerofinz said:

2k+ starts the sweetspot for a centri without hammering the engine to it's max. But good luck stopping at 3.5K, the linear power just begs to keep going. If anyone swears by a PD, ask if they've spent any real time in a centri. How else can you really have an opinion? I've driven both, I like both.

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So that would smooth things out. I know I'll go past 3.5K!! Just was mentioning that for street driving.

Aerofinz said:

2k+ starts the sweetspot for a centri without hammering the engine to it's max. But good luck stopping at 3.5K, the linear power just begs to keep going. If anyone swears by a PD, ask if they've spent any real time in a centri. How else can you really have an opinion? I've driven both, I like both.

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Which Vortech are you running?

Daniel Roberson said:

In my humble opinion, the cams sound great but the low-end torque loss really sucks. If you get the long tubes with the cams it will put a smile on your face otherwise you have been warned.

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I did the Hot Rod cams, JLT, long tubes and gears all at the same time. Night and day, obviously. I’m at the point now where I have to decide if I slap a blower on it or just buy an old project to tinker with.. ugh, decisions!

Nathan H said:

So that would smooth things out. I know I'll go past 3.5K!! Just was mentioning that for street driving.

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If you decide to add a supercharger, your JLT CAI and Steeda underdrive pulleys will have been a waste of money 'cause you'd need to remove both.
Here's a detailed insight into N/A bolt ons with links to plenty of tech articles:

https://www.angelfire.com/my/fan/Mustang2006GT/S197_Bolt_Ons.htm

Dino Dino Bambino said:

If you decide to add a supercharger, your JLT CAI and the underdrive pulleys will have been a waste of money 'cause you'd need to remove both.
Here's a detailed insight into N/A bolt ons with links to plenty of tech articles:

https://www.angelfire.com/my/fan/Mustang2006GT/S197_Bolt_Ons.htm

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Thanks for letting me know. I'll take a look.

Nathan H said:

Which Vortech are you running?

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Vortech polished V-2/SC (helical gears) with After/Charge Cooler.

My first mod was long tubes, cold air intake and Detroit Rocker cams and tune. All at the same time. I loved the sound of the cams and it ran pretty well. A few years later I went with the R2300TVC. The difference between the two setups is “OH MY GOD” this is fun. Went from around 300 horse to over 500 with ease and it doesn’t care if it’s in traffic or on open road. PD blowers have virtues all their own.

https://youtube.com/shorts/Nn10fnR2Me4?feature=share

The clip above is my 05, Edelbrock E-Force, Kooks LTHs, and Detroit Rocker cams. All were bought through Brenspeed, installed by me with their tune. I had to let the car idle 10-15 minutes to warmup before I could back it out without dying. It would still die at a stop light and smelled like shit from being so rich. Brenspeed’s response was “That’s how it is”.

https://youtube.com/shorts/tDDFjRCTdJI?feature=share

This clip is 2-3 days later with a Lito tune. Warmup is no longer necessary as it starts and goes in 30 seconds. Runs smooth as silk and screams like a banshee at WOT.

Forget Brenspeed and go with Lito.

Nathan H said:

...did they really gain 20-30rwhp?

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Here's my attempt at actually answering your original question, LOL! I took a look back at my dyno sheets, and yes, 20 to maybe 30 (s-t-r-e-t-c-h) is doable, but, it does come at the loss of low end torque. FRPP cams.

And if you are like most of us low end is where we are most of the time.

Daniel Roberson said:

And if you are like most of us low end is where we are most of the time.

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...except those of us with centris...

Daniel Roberson said:

And if you are like most of us low end is where we are most of the time.

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IMO cam swaps on a N/A 4.6 just aren't worth it when you consider the $800+ cost of the cams themselves plus the additional cost of the timing wedge tool, phaser bolts (possibly new phasers as well), labor if you're paying to have them installed professionally, and a new tune. The total cost could be as much as $2000. That's 30% of the way towards a supercharger kit.
Then you have the loss of torque below 3500rpm where the engine spends most of its life. The obvious solution to that is a 3.73 (if you have 3.31) or 4.10 (if you have 3.55) rear axle gear swap. That 13-15% extra torque multiplication at the rear wheels compensates for the sub 3500rpm torque loss at the crank, and adds to the fun factor above 5000rpm where the cams actually make more power, but it comes at a cost of ~$275 in parts plus 4-6 hours labor. By now you're almost $3000 in (unless you DIY) and all for 22rwhp with some extra performance in a narrow 5000-6500rpm window?
The best bang for the buck is to keep the stock rear axle gears and install a PD supercharger kit. For ~$6500 you can gain an easy 150+rwhp and outrun stock Coyote Stangs.

Dino Dino Bambino said:

IMO cam swaps on a N/A 4.6 just aren't worth
The best bang for the buck is to keep the stock rear axle gears and install a PD supercharger kit. For ~$6500 you can gain an easy 150+rwhp and outrun stock Coyote Stangs.

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Agree, better yet, find a nice clean example already done and tweak it to your liking. And don't rule out a centri!

Dino Dino Bambino said:

IMO cam swaps on a N/A 4.6 just aren't worth it when you consider the $800+ cost of the cams themselves plus the additional cost of the timing wedge tool, phaser bolts (possibly new phasers as well), labor if you're paying to have them installed professionally, and a new tune. The total cost could be as much as $2000. That's 30% of the way towards a supercharger kit.
Then you have the loss of torque below 3500rpm where the engine spends most of its life. The obvious solution to that is a 3.73 (if you have 3.31) or 4.10 (if you have 3.55) rear axle gear swap. That 13-15% extra torque multiplication at the rear wheels compensates for the sub 3500rpm torque loss at the crank, and adds to the fun factor above 5000rpm where the cams actually make more power, but it comes at a cost of ~$275 in parts plus 4-6 hours labor. By now you're almost $3000 in (unless you DIY) and all for 22rwhp with some extra performance in a narrow 5000-6500rpm window?
The best bang for the buck is to keep the stock rear axle gears and install a PD supercharger kit. For ~$6500 you can gain an easy 150+rwhp and outrun stock Coyote Stangs.

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Yeah, I've been looking at the pros and cons. From a cost prospective of what you gain for the price, a supercharger is the way to go. I already run 4.10s so my thinking is a centri style SC might be more in line with what I have.

For street use, any PD blower has the advantage of....'the instant TQ hit'. On my 2010 GT auto, b4 retuning it, stopped at a red light, and foot on brake, it idled at 600 rpm. Hit the gas, and with oem 1500 rpm stall converter, it jumps asap, to 1500+ rpm, and max boost..asap. Off we go, burning up rear 305 mm MPSS tires in 1st gear. In normal operation, I get into it slower..and get into 2nd gear asap, then mash it, then it takes off like a mofo. With the new VMP tune, the idle is now 750 rpm, stopped, and foot on brake ( car in drive). But I only have 5.7 psi boost. With 10-15 psi boost, it may well be way over the top for street use.... and break traction in 2nd gear. I have an oem 3.31 rear gear + WL watts link + eaton tru trac, DSS-DS and jba LT's, catted H..and twin 62mm TB. Then the vmp 94 octane tune.

On my auto, 2nd gear is 14% lower than 2nd gear in a manual. My 3rd gear is 16.5% lower than 3rd gear in a manual. 4th gear is the same 1:1 ratio. With the manual, a 3.73 rear gear is needed to equal the 3.31 in the auto.... with both in 2nd gear. With the manual, a 3.90 rear gear is needed to equal the 3.31 in the auto.... when both in 3rd gear. Where I lose it is in 4th gear in the auto (1:1)...with the 3.31 rear gear. The folks with a manual..and either a 3.55 3.73 3.90 4.10 rear gear will pull harder in 4th gear.

I find the acceleration is more than ample for a street car. 0-60, 0-80, 0-100, 50-100, etc, comes very quickly. 0-60 is sub 4 secs.

I have never driven a centri (several here in town). With 8-15 psi max boost, and boost building up to the square of the rpm, a centri would probably be the ticket for higher boost applications...for street use. Then at least it's... 'controllable power'. IMO, no point in having globs of rwtq, if you can't control it. The last thing I want is some kinda..'light switch' effect. That's why I left the oem 3.31 rear gear intact..and also told vmp, not to mess with the throttle response.

I recently installed a centri, 4.10's and HR cams and love the combination. The Brenspeed tune leaves a lot to be desired so I'm in contact with Lito for a better tune. Just a heads-up that you will also need to install a wideband O2 and preferably a boost gauge for datalogging. Not a big deal to do but not inexpensive either.

FredB66 said:

I recently installed a centri, 4.10's and HR cams and love the combination. The Brenspeed tune leaves a lot to be desired so I'm in contact with Lito for a better tune. Just a heads-up that you will also need to install a wideband O2 and preferably a boost gauge for datalogging. Not a big deal to do but not inexpensive either.

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Which centri did you get?

Anyone ever try tuning the vct for more power? 20 some hp up top that will radely get used, change in sound, and loss of low end just deos not seem woth the effort of a cam swap.

I got the Vortech V3-Si, non-intercooled. The kit was pretty good and the installation fairly painless. The charge cooler is on my wish list for a later upgrade.

Nathan H said:

Hello everyone. I'm new to the forum. I did a bunch of searches but I can't find what I'm looking for. I've seen a lot of posts where people say they installed the FRPP Hot Rod cams and gained "X" amount of power, but they always seem to be along the lines of "I also installed a CAI and got a tune." In that case more than two variables have been changed and it's hard to know what caused what change for power. Has anyone already had a CAI and tune and THEN put the cams in? If so how, did they really gain 20-30rwhp? I have a 2007 GT with 5-speed manual, 4.10 gears, JLT 3 intake, Steeda under drive pullies and a tune from Breenspeed. I'm just wondering what to expect after adding the Hot Rod cams. If I go that route, I'm going to get a tune from Lito.

Thanks,
Nathan

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You shouldn't expect any big gains by just adding or replacing one component. Generally headers, cams, etc. compliment each other to create overall power gains, when they're properly matched. I did the research before buying my cams, and I knew the Hot Rod cams wouldn't make the power that a set of cams that require a valve spring change and disabling VCT would make. I'll admit, I was primarily after the "hot rod" sound, which is what the narrow lobe center angles of these cams give you. And it also didn't hurt that I got a killer deal on the cams, followers, and lash adjuster kit on ebay.
I also have the FRPP intake, and yes, there is a hole in the lower end of the torque curve big enough to drive a truck into, but that's one of the trade-offs for increased upper mid-range and top end power.
Bottom line is I feel that I got the results that my research into this parts combination suggested I would get, and I love the way the cars runs and sounds. As for cold air intakes, at the level of tuning my car is at, my CAI is probably a waste of money, and the only reason I have one is because it was parts of a package deal with the X4 tuner.