Navigator Cam Swap

Rick Simons

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I'm getting ready to do a complete preventative cam train rebuild on my wife's 2010 navigator 5.4- timing kit, followers, oil pump, etc. I was toying with the idea of swapping in the stock cams out of my mustang while I was in there. Looking for feedback, positive or negative, on this. I know it would most likely need a tune, and if this is the case I would probably not do it as I would prefer not to shell out the $$ for another tuner and tune. Still, it's a tempting idea. Yes, I know this should go on a Lincoln forum, but I haven't gotten around to joining one, and I know there are a lot of knowledgeable people on this one.
 

Midlife Crises

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Other than preventative main, I wouldn’t change anything if I wasn’t willing to tune for the advantage the new parts may offer.
 

Juice

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Are you having any issues?
No? Leave it alone.
Modulars in stock form last a long ass time.
 

Juice

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Leave the stock cam, put a Vortech on there. Bolt on and way more power for less work. 7 psi is a nice safe level.
 

GlassTop09

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I'm getting ready to do a complete preventative cam train rebuild on my wife's 2010 navigator 5.4- timing kit, followers, oil pump, etc. I was toying with the idea of swapping in the stock cams out of my mustang while I was in there. Looking for feedback, positive or negative, on this. I know it would most likely need a tune, and if this is the case I would probably not do it as I would prefer not to shell out the $$ for another tuner and tune. Still, it's a tempting idea. Yes, I know this should go on a Lincoln forum, but I haven't gotten around to joining one, and I know there are a lot of knowledgeable people on this one.
From what I could find online to date, w\ the advent of the 3V VCT system used in Mustang Modular 4.6L V8's & 5.4L Triton V8's the cams look to be virutally identical....at least from a max valve lift, max cam lobe lift spec so this info only leaves the duration, LSA, OL, ICL, ECL, GI advance info to know to determine how well the stock 4.6L 3V Mustang cams will match up to the 5.4L Triton's PCM tuning around VCT operation tuned for the stock 5.4L Triton camshafts......which I can't find anywhere on the 5.4L Triton 3V's, only have info on the 4.6L 3V stock cams so it doesn't look to be promising.........

AFAIK I would think there'd be nothing to gain from swapping in OEM Mustang 4.6L Modular 3V camshafts into an OEM 5.4L Modular Triton 3V engine or vise-versa. If there was something to this (like w\ Coyotes) I believe we'd have already had knowledge of it by now. The lack of knowledge says to me the answer is no, nada, nothing to be gained thus the OEM camshafts used in each Modular 3V V8 engine version are virtually the same profile.

My 2 cents.
 

Rick Simons

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From what I could find online to date, w\ the advent of the 3V VCT system used in Mustang Modular 4.6L V8's & 5.4L Triton V8's the cams look to be virutally identical....at least from a max valve lift, max cam lobe lift spec so this info only leaves the duration, LSA, OL, ICL, ECL, GI advance info to know to determine how well the stock 4.6L 3V Mustang cams will match up to the 5.4L Triton's PCM tuning around VCT operation tuned for the stock 5.4L Triton camshafts......which I can't find anywhere on the 5.4L Triton 3V's, only have info on the 4.6L 3V stock cams so it doesn't look to be promising.........

AFAIK I would think there'd be nothing to gain from swapping in OEM Mustang 4.6L Modular 3V camshafts into an OEM 5.4L Modular Triton 3V engine or vise-versa. If there was something to this (like w\ Coyotes) I believe we'd have already had knowledge of it by now. The lack of knowledge says to me the answer is no, nada, nothing to be gained thus the OEM camshafts used in each Modular 3V V8 engine version are virtually the same profile.

My 2 cents.
Thanks for the feedback. It would be interesting to see what the differences are in LSA's. I suppose I could stick a degree wheel and a dial indicator on it when I have it apart, but that's looking more and more like a waste of time. Yeah, it's a goofy idea, but that's my specialty.
No current issues, other than some phaser or tensioner knocking at cold start-up. It quiets down after about 20 seconds. At 158k I think it's better to replace everything before something comes apart. I'm really hot to install the updated followers too. This alone should boost the oil pressure considerably.
 

GlassTop09

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Thanks for the feedback. It would be interesting to see what the differences are in LSA's. I suppose I could stick a degree wheel and a dial indicator on it when I have it apart, but that's looking more and more like a waste of time. Yeah, it's a goofy idea, but that's my specialty.
No current issues, other than some phaser or tensioner knocking at cold start-up. It quiets down after about 20 seconds. At 158k I think it's better to replace everything before something comes apart. I'm really hot to install the updated followers too. This alone should boost the oil pressure considerably.
No problem......I kinda figured out what your motive was for asking this question concerning the possibility since you were gonna have the engine open doing a timing refresh. It's not a stupid question IMO thus why I made an attempt to actually find out if any real data exists in the wild to make a determination either way.

There is more data out there on the 5.4L 3V Triton camshaft profiles but you'd have to have inside access to Ford's engine design data which I don't. I heard FordTechMakuloco make reference to the 5.4L Triton having 3 different camshaft profiles used based on MY in 1 of his videos thus even within the 5.4L Triton family you'd have to run the VIN to then find out which camshaft profile version was installed in the engine in your Navigator to then have an idea of what you're trying to compare to..........

The Modular engine design parameters leaves practically no change in engine bore spacing from a 4.6L to 5.4L thus why the engine bore size, cyl heads, valve sizing & chambering along w\ piston dish depths are essentially identical (within <.003") so camshafts from a lift perspective should also be practically identical. The stroke length is the main physical difference (which also called for the extra block deck height in the 5.4L block) between the 2 engines.

IMHO, this idea would be more interesting if a set of 5.4L 3V Triton camshafts were swapped into a 4.6L 3V engine from a low end TQ application scenario due to the IVO, IVC, EVO, EVC, OL, ICL, ECL, GI advance but again it will depend on which set of 5.4L Triton camshafts you had........

In the end though, the swap prospect doesn't make a lot of practical sense IMHO using OEM cams across these 2 versions of Modular engines outside of conversation aspects.........but don't let me talk you out of doing it if this is what you want to do--you might learn something in the process we don't know or haven't considered.

The new design cam roller followers IMHO should be a 1st opportunity swap out on either a 4.6L 3V or a 5.4L 3V Triton engine, period (including point of sale). The 1st time you hear your Modular run w\ these newer units installed you'll understand...............
 

Juice

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Guess I should have added, if metal is found in filter, I would not put the effort into the job. I had a buddy tell me the metal floating around will cause a recurring check engine light. And there is just one part that will fix that. A reman engine.
Sorry for potential bad news.
 

Dino Dino Bambino

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Here are the stock Mustang 4.6 3V cam specs:

Advertised intake/exhaust valve opening duration: 248/279 degrees
Intake/exhaust valve opening duration @ 0.050" lifter rise: 196/221 degrees
Valve lift intake/exhaust: 0.439"/0.436"
Lobe separation angle: 114.75 degrees
Intake centerline angle (parked): 109 degrees

The only information I could find on the 5.4 3V truck cams is:

Advertised intake/exhaust valve opening duration: 232/260 degrees
Intake/exhaust valve opening duration @ 0.050" lifter rise: 175/198 degrees
Valve lift same as Mustang cams

The shorter duration cams, combined with the longer intake manifold runner length, explain why the HP & TQ peaks of the 5.4 3V are at lower rpm.
 
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Rick Simons

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Guess I should have added, if metal is found in filter, I would not put the effort into the job. I had a buddy tell me the metal floating around will cause a recurring check engine light. And there is just one part that will fix that. A reman engine.
Sorry for potential bad news.
Yes, I can imagine little pieces of metal sticking to the cam and/or crank sensors and creating a false trigger. The tank (Navigator) is getting an oil change tomorrow night so I'll see what shows up in the filter. Thanks to all of you guys for all of the great info.!
 

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