LCAs relocation brackets necessary?

GT R13 · Feb 19, 2022

Was thinking about the BMR relocation brackets for my GT. My lcas are the boxed BMRs and with all my suspension mods they are now slightly higher towards the rear wheels. I don’t have wheel hop or traction issues and the car handles and launches really well. That being said, just don’t want to leave anything “off” as far as traction and suspension. As you can see in the pics , the shop I take my car to had to grind a little bit of the oem bracket for the Steeda rear sway to fit on the passenger side. I don’t know if it’s worth the hassle of modifying the new relocation brackets, or if they’ll even fit with the rear sway bar. Are relocation brackets really necessary if it’s just a weekend street car with maybe some future track runs here and there? Thanks for any advice / info

ddd4114 · Feb 20, 2022

While it is true that relocation brackets will make the rear suspension geometry "better" with a lowered car, it might only matter in specific applications. I used the factory LCAs for ~5 years after lowering my car, and it's a track car with occasional street use. I finally installed aftermarket relocation brackets and LCAs about two years ago, and I haven't noticed any benefit. The car isn't any faster, and I've found shock tuning has a much more significant effect on corner-exit traction than the new suspension bits provided. If I was drag racing or had much more power I might see some benefit, but I was plenty competitive without them.

redfirepearlgt · Feb 20, 2022

if it aint broke dont fix it.

Pentalab · Feb 20, 2022

The oem 10-12 cars came with wheel hop, right out of the box..and less traction. I lowered the rear on my 2010 by 1.25" inches, and wheel hop was severe. ( front lowered 1"). Driver's side rear stuck out 3/8". it would also pull violently to the left..in the wet, just around town. OEM lca's were higher at axle end. So in went the BMR boxed LCA's (non adjustable), and mating adjustable BMR UCA, and also the BMR LCA relocate brackets, and BMR adjustable PHB and BMR PHB brace. Problem solved.

The BMR LCA relocate brackets allow for a 2-3-4" drop. I initially used the 2" drop. A year later, I used the 3" drop option...which is where it still resides.

A few years after the BMR install, I removed and replaced the BMR adjustable PHB + brace with a whiteline watts link + brace...and also an Eaton-Detroit tru-trac LSD + one piece aluminum DSS-DS.

When the car was initially lowered 1.25" at the rear, and oem lca's higher at axle end, I just knew I was gonna have problems. A 2014 may well be different kettle of fish.

GT R13 · Feb 20, 2022

Had a chance to drive this morning and really push the car. Beautiful Florida Sunday, mid 60’s , sunny and early, so no traffic. Cold enough for some nice cool dense air and warm enough to get my tires sticking. Did some big on ramps , q shaped tighter on ramps , couple of launches and some hard pulls shifting at 7100 RPMs. Car handled everything great , only wheel play ( except for 2 launches) was shifted from fourth wound out to fifth and wheels slightly jerked and chirped. I don’t plan on adding more HP as I’m pretty much FBO except for an intake which I’m leaving stock , so guess I’ll just not worry about it too much. Car definitely performs up to and probably past my driving skills so…. Was just interested in hearing other’s opinions on this as I’m way more interested in traction ( corner carving) rather than straight line speed. Keeping the car on a square setup is also is my goal , so no drag setup for traction for it.

Vorshlag-Fair · Feb 21, 2022

I thought this was common knowledge but apparently a lot of the group knowledge has left this forum?

YES, whenever you have lowered the rear ride height on the S197 chassis you REALLY SHOULD install the rear lower control arm Relocation Brackets. Whiteline (shown), Maximum Motorsports, BMR - it almost doesn't matter who's kit you use, just DO IT.

This LCA relocation bracket change "fixes" some rear geometry issues that DO occur when you lower the rear ride height. Now many folks over-lower the rear, and without a shorter rear shock and bump stop changes this causes a lot of problems... but that's a story for another day.

The sphericals in the LCAs and the billet swaybar bracket are making my eye twitch, but I'm not gonna hound the OP too much for that.

Cheers,

GT R13 · Feb 21, 2022

Vorshlag-Fair said:
I thought this was common knowledge but apparently a lot of the group knowledge has left this forum?

YES, whenever you have lowered the rear ride height on the S197 chassis you REALLY SHOULD install the rear lower control arm Relocation Brackets. Whiteline (shown), Maximum Motorsports, BMR - it almost doesn't matter who's kit you use, just DO IT.

This LCA relocation bracket change "fixes" some rear geometry issues that DO occur when you lower the rear ride height. Now many folks over-lower the rear, and without a shorter rear shock and bump stop changes this causes a lot of problems... but that's a story for another day.

The sphericals in the LCAs and the billet swaybar bracket are making my eye twitch, but I'm not gonna hound the OP too much for that.

Cheers,

the lcas were already on the car when i bought it. it was originally lowered on H&R springs and OEM shocks and struts and was way to low and rode pretty bad. i added all the steeda suspension (yes the billet sway bar brackets) to raise the car back up and to handle better. i just dont know what to do about the sway bar location where the LCAs OEM bracket had to be modified for the sway bar to fit. looks like any relocation brackets would be a problem fitting them on at that particular spot. this is the last piece of my suspension that i have to do.

kerrynzl · Feb 21, 2022

It also depends on driving style.
My FR500C has stock brackets and a lot of Neg camber on the front. [the rear end has a lot of "roll understeer"]
This combo [Fr and Rr] makes the car feel twitchy on bumpy straights BUT it is actually quite stable. It self aligns so I can actually take my hands off the wheel [at 160mph]

But the rear roll understeer is great mid corner ,it increases rear side-bite [or the illusion of side bite]
I can get on the loud pedal a bit earlier, then feed a bit of throttle oversteer on corner exit.

Without all the front neg camber the car would probably have a lot of corner entry understeer.

LRS197 · Feb 24, 2022

Google / read about LCA relocation brackets with respect to anti-squat.

SilverMustangGT · Feb 24, 2022

Here's a link to an article that explains the need for it: https://motoiq.com/project-mustang-5-0-optimizing-weight-transfer-and-roll-steer/

I mostly just autocross my car and I'm getting a lot of understeer in the middle of the corner that I really don't like. The back of the car also feels twitchy when I'm hard on the brakes to enter a slow corner (the rear tires broke loose entering one of the faster corners last year).

I haven't been to an autocross since installing them, but I do like the feel when driving it on the street.

Midlife Crises · Feb 24, 2022

Pretty straightforward really. I lowered my 2010 with Steeda sport springs and Totiko D specs and the result was very poor straight line traction. Rear oversteer was easy initiate. Relocation brackets allowed me to improve traction. Playing with the role center with a watts link has a huge effect on rear steer.

Pentalab · Feb 24, 2022

SilverMustangGT said:
Here's a link to an article that explains the need for it: https://motoiq.com/project-mustang-5-0-optimizing-weight-transfer-and-roll-steer/

I mostly just autocross my car and I'm getting a lot of understeer in the middle of the corner that I really don't like. The back of the car also feels twitchy when I'm hard on the brakes to enter a slow corner (the rear tires broke loose entering one of the faster corners last year).

I haven't been to an autocross since installing them, but I do like the feel when driving it on the street.

Excellent article written by Vince. Be careful if using the BMR LCA relocate brackets. If you get the LCA's too low at axle end, ( 4" drop) you may well get the opposite of wheel hop..which is called......'brake hop'.

The BMR allows for a 2-3-4" drop at axle end. The whiteline version is fixed at 3". The BMR version is constructed almost the same as the whiteline version. IE: both are 1/4" + 3/16" plates, welded. Both are bolted on in 3 x places. The advantage of the whiteline version is...it doesn't hang as low as the BMR version. Drawback is, they only have the fixed 3" drop..which it turns out, is ideal.

If the rear is say lowered by 1.25" (and assuming the lca's were parallel to the ground to begin with), lowering the LCA's by 2" will result in the LCA's now being (2 - 1.25) = .75" lower at axle end.
If LCA's lowered by 3", it's now (3-1.25) = 1.75" lower at axle end.
If LCA's lowered by 4", it's now (4-1.25) = 2.75" lower at axle end.

Midlife Crises · Feb 24, 2022

Pentalab said:
brake hop'.

Oh yes. I tried the lowest hole on the BMR brackets. The result was too much anti squat for my set up. Lifted the rear of the car and spun the tires. Medium/heavy breaking resulted in break hop. Holy shit, never felt that before. They work great in the center hole. Very stable on slicks.

GT R13 · Feb 24, 2022

SilverMustangGT said:
Here's a link to an article that explains the need for it: https://motoiq.com/project-mustang-5-0-optimizing-weight-transfer-and-roll-steer/

I mostly just autocross my car and I'm getting a lot of understeer in the middle of the corner that I really don't like. The back of the car also feels twitchy when I'm hard on the brakes to enter a slow corner (the rear tires broke loose entering one of the faster corners last year).

I haven't been to an autocross since installing them, but I do like the feel when driving it on the street.

That is really good article and appreciate you posting it. Thanks. I think I’m definitely going to order the BMR relocation brackets and try them out. The only thing that worries me is the clearance of them and the Steeda sway bar ( 1st pic). Like I said, I don’t really have any wheel hop or traction issues that I’m aware of, but that moto IQ article has me thinking of cornering and coming out of the turn while getting on it. I’ve put a lot of money into the suspension mods on the car and just want it to handle well in corners and such. I’m taking it on a road trip in June through the smokies and blue ridge mountains to my brother in law’s house just outside of Asheville NC. Thanks for the input everyone

kerrynzl · Feb 24, 2022

LRS197 said:
Google / read about LCA relocation brackets with respect to anti-squat.

When you lower the car [as mine has] it lowers the "instant centre" [IC]
This increases squat at the CG and also increases "overturning moment" [ front lift and rear squat due to weight transfer]
This is because drive "thrust" is applied at the IC, and resistance is at the CG. creating a rotation [which increases as the distance between the two increase]

You cannot stop weight transfer but you can harness the affect of it. [we do this laterally with low Roll Centres and stiff wheel rates for cornering]
Their are 2 methods to harness longitudinal weight transfer [vis over turning moment]
1: lower the CG and /or raise the IC
2: stiffer rear suspension [which plant the tyres better]

When you stiffen the rear suspension ,you also stiffen the rear roll stiffness which will make the car oversteer [loose]
So you then need to soften or remove any RARB [rear anti roll bar]

My FR500C had no RARB from the factory.

Now @GT R13 needs to make a decision which could mean throwing away components he aready purchased.
1: simply BUY a LCA relocation kit and be done with it.
or
2: Leave the LCA's alone and BUY new stiffer springs and throw away his RARB or BUY an even Hearier Fr ARB to restore the roll couple back to neutral /slight understeer

For a street /occasional track car choose 1:
For a dedicated race car choose 2:

As the monkey said as he pissed into the cash register "this is going to run into money"

RED09GT · Feb 24, 2022

Midlife Crises said:
Oh yes. I tried the lowest hole on the BMR brackets. The result was too much anti squat for my set up. Lifted the rear of the car and spun the tires. Medium/heavy breaking resulted in break hop. Holy shit, never felt that before. They work great in the center hole. Very stable on slicks.

I have the BMR's as well and I tried the bottom hole and the video showed my rear spoiler coming up what appeared to be almost 3". Couldn't do better than a 1.84 60' with that setup and it bogged on most runs.

I'm considering cutting off the bottom hole as I can't legally run my 15" wheels with them as the Motor Vehicles Act for BC does not allow any part of the car to sit lower than the bottom of the wheel rim. I am legal on 20" wheels, right on the cusp with an 18" wheel, and definitely illegal with my 15's.

GT R13 · Feb 24, 2022

kerrynzl said:
When you lower the car [as mine has] it lowers the "instant centre" [IC]
This increases squat at the CG and also increases "overturning moment" [ front lift and rear squat due to weight transfer]
This is because drive "thrust" is applied at the IC, and resistance is at the CG. creating a rotation [which increases as the distance between the two increase]

You cannot stop weight transfer but you can harness the affect of it. [we do this laterally with low Roll Centres and stiff wheel rates for cornering]
Their are 2 methods to harness longitudinal weight transfer [vis over turning moment]
1: lower the CG and /or raise the IC
2: stiffer rear suspension [which plant the tyres better]

When you stiffen the rear suspension ,you also stiffen the rear roll stiffness which will make the car oversteer [loose]
So you then need to soften or remove any RARB [rear anti roll bar]

My FR500C had no RARB from the factory.

Now @GT R13 needs to make a decision which could mean throwing away components he aready purchased.
1: simply BUY a LCA relocation kit and be done with it.
or
2: Leave the LCA's alone and BUY new stiffer springs and throw away his RARB or BUY an even Hearier Fr ARB to restore the roll couple back to neutral /slight understeer

For a street /occasional track car choose 1:
For a dedicated race car choose 2:

As the monkey said as he pissed into the cash register "this is going to run into money"

Just gonna buy the relocation brackets and hopefully not have to modify them to fit. My GT is just a street car for weekend fun

SilverMustangGT · Feb 25, 2022

I have the Ford Performance LCA brackets and it's a tight fit with the rear sway bar. The Whiteline rear sway bar would provide much more clearance, but the Whiteline is much stiffer than my current sway bar. It would mean more testing to figure out the right suspension setting and maybe even changing the front sway bar.

Pentalab · Feb 25, 2022

RED09GT said:
I have the BMR's as well and I tried the bottom hole and the video showed my rear spoiler coming up what appeared to be almost 3". Couldn't do better than a 1.84 60' with that setup and it bogged on most runs.

I'm considering cutting off the bottom hole as I can't legally run my 15" wheels with them as the Motor Vehicles Act for BC does not allow any part of the car to sit lower than the bottom of the wheel rim. I am legal on 20" wheels, right on the cusp with an 18" wheel, and definitely illegal with my 15's.

I wondered about that years ago. With 18" rims on the rear + BMR relocate brackets, I thought to myself, what if I had a flat rear tire ? The bottom of that BMR bracket would almost be scaping the asphalt. I use 18"s in winter, all 4 x corners...and 19" rears + 18" fronts in summer. The BMR would hit with a 15-16-17" rear rim.

Skwerl cut off the lowest hole on his BMR relocate brackets, he posted a ton of pix of the process..then repainted the bottom portion, where he cut it off. He used the middle holes. The whiteline brackets are identical construction to the BMR's, fixed with a 3" drop, and don't hang as low. If I was doing this from scratch, I woulda used the whiteline version.

The only issue I see from cutting off the bottom hole on the BMR's is.... they really should be re-welded along the bottom edge. Cut em off, and you end up with the 2 x plates, sans weld, along the bottom edge. It's probably a non issue

LCAs relocation brackets necessary?

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