2005 4.0 V6 E85 Conversion

[Rottenroth]

Hello!

I am writing this post to see if there is any possibility to convert the 4.0 to E85?

If so what are the pros and cons?

Where can I buy injectors for the upgrade? I seem to only find it for the GT.

Considering the brutal taxing on gasoline in Sweden I have started to dabble with the idea of converting and trying it out as the car would be labelled an "eco" car which would half the cost in annual tax and also reduce the insane spending on regular gasoline which is ridiculous at the moment. A full tank goes for 105USD in SEK and contra that to income in Sweden it is not a nice number.

Now I don't seek those who come with "You should not do that to your car" but actual facts and help would be awesome.

Thank you in advance!

Regards // Alex

 

[MrAwesome987]

Looks like the 4.0 uses an EV14 injector, so any set of larger EV14 style injectors should work. You may also need a larger fuel pump, but that should be fairly easy as well. As far as more performance, I wouldn't expect much, but it certainly won't hurt.

 

[Rottenroth]

Looks like the 4.0 uses an EV14 injector, so any set of larger EV14 style injectors should work. You may also need a larger fuel pump, but that should be fairly easy as well. As far as more performance, I wouldn't expect much, but it certainly won't hurt.

Thank you for the response!

Found that summitracing had these and they should work judging by their specs. https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/dwk-18u0000784/overview/

Definetly not a hefty price tag either.

 

[MrAwesome987]

Those look like they would work, however they are probably a bit overkill I would think. You probably only need something like this: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/dwk-18u0000396/overview/make/ford/model/mustang

Can anyone confirm?

As for a pump, I think the V6's have the same style fuel tank/pump set up, so a mild or even stock pump from a GT is all you would need.

 

[01yellerCobra]

I've heard good things about DW. But if 39lb is enough to cover your needs it might be worth looking for injectors out of am 03/04 Cobra. They're 39lb and I've seen them go for under $200. Plus you'd end up with a couple extras just in case.

 

[Rottenroth]

Those look like they would work, however they are probably a bit overkill I would think. You probably only need something like this: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/dwk-18u0000396/overview/make/ford/model/mustang

Can anyone confirm?

As for a pump, I think the V6's have the same style fuel tank/pump set up, so a mild or even stock pump from a GT is all you would need.

100 dollar less though for a bit overkill, as long as they work I dont mind them being overkill.

Ah so they are compatible with eachother? That would be great in that case.

I've heard good things about DW. But if 39lb is enough to cover your needs it might be worth looking for injectors out of am 03/04 Cobra. They're 39lb and I've seen them go for under $200. Plus you'd end up with a couple extras just in case.

That is not bad pricewise. I will take a look at it for sure. Many options now!

I am a newly converted Mustang driver and I like it more and more, easy to work with that car too.

 

[MrAwesome987]

The first link for the big injectors is only a set of 4.

 

[Juice]

You will need to tune the pcm. Do you have to pass any emission testing where they plug into the obd port and scan your car? That may present a problem.

Im still running my stock v6 fuel pump (same as gt in my 2007) and no issues feeding the 5.0. I think you will be fine with just larger injectors and tuning.

 

[tjm73]

Since this is a 4.0 V6, I'm gonna ask why do you want to do this? What are your expectations? E85 is not magic. It's not like getting 1.21 Gigawatts injected. The cost to upgrade is questionable on a garden variety V6 probably 99% of the time. If the car is supercharged/turbocharged, I'm with you. If it's largely stock or even modified I am skeptical of the return on money spent.

 

[MrAwesome987]

He's trying to avoid a gas tax in Sweden, according to post #1.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

It all comes down to how much you'd save in annual fuel costs and vehicle taxes. If you can recoup the cost of the E85 conversion in less than five years it might be worth it.
Keep in mind that fuel consumption in L/100km will increase by ~40% so factor that into your calculations.

 

[Flusher]

Have you considered distilling your own ethanol?

 

[MrAwesome987]

Have you considered distilling your own ethanol?

Goodness, who has time for that?

 

[Rottenroth]

Since this is a 4.0 V6, I'm gonna ask why do you want to do this? What are your expectations? E85 is not magic. It's not like getting 1.21 Gigawatts injected. The cost to upgrade is questionable on a garden variety V6 probably 99% of the time. If the car is supercharged/turbocharged, I'm with you. If it's largely stock or even modified I am skeptical of the return on money spent.

It is to avoid all the brutal taxing and overpricing of regular 95 here in Sweden.

See it like this.

The gas price here for 95 is about 15.75SEK /liter
The gas price for E85 here is about 11.25SEK /liter

The annual taxing as for now for my car is 2300SEK
With ethanol conversion it goes down to 1000SEK annually as it will be considered an eco friendly car.

All in all, I plan to own this car for a long time and it is a daily driver for me to and from work. The pay off will show singificantly, I already had a hybrid car before and the ethanol driving here is alot cheaper in the run.

You will need to tune the pcm. Do you have to pass any emission testing where they plug into the obd port and scan your car? That may present a problem.

Im still running my stock v6 fuel pump (same as gt in my 2007) and no issues feeding the 5.0. I think you will be fine with just larger injectors and tuning.

It is already passing it and with the ethanol it will be lower.

Have you considered distilling your own ethanol?

That process would be overkill to spend on considering I own no land and it is illegal to distill here.

 

[tjm73]

It is to avoid all the brutal taxing and overpricing of regular 95 here in Sweden.

See it like this.

The gas price here for 95 is about 15.75SEK /liter
The gas price for E85 here is about 11.25SEK /liter

The annual taxing as for now for my car is 2300SEK
With ethanol conversion it goes down to 1000SEK annually as it will be considered an eco friendly car.

I converted to USD (and gallons) so I could better understand the monetary impact.

Wow! That's like a little over $6/gal in US terms for the 95 and like $4.40 for the E85. That is a big difference.

Also that annual tax is about $237 in today's US dollars currently and if "eco", as he says, drops to just a little over $100 for annual tax.

If you do the conversion you will save about $137USD in annual taxes. But if you use ~40% more fuel to run the E85 as Dino Dino Bambino said, your fuel costs go up by the same amount. If you add 40% to the E85 fuel cost of 11.25SEK you arrive at 15.75SEK. I'm not inclined to think you will see appreciable savings.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

The gas price here for 95 is about 15.75SEK /liter
The gas price for E85 here is about 11.25SEK /liter

The annual taxing as for now for my car is 2300SEK
With ethanol conversion it goes down to 1000SEK annually as it will be considered an eco friendly car.

Ok, you aren't going to see any saving in fuel costs but you'll have an annual tax saving of SEK 1300, which is only $134 US. Not enough in my view to make the E85 conversion worthwhile.
If you think your annual vehicle tax is high, mine is a whopping €1300 or $1450 (Thanks Cyprus!), and there's nothing I can do about it if I want to keep the car on the road! The reason is the high CO2 emissions (307g/km) so I bite the bullet.

 

[MrAwesome987]

But if you use ~40% more fuel to run the E85 as Dino Dino Bambino said

I believe its more like 30% worse gas mileage.

 

[tjm73]

I believe its more like 30% worse gas mileage.

Ok. I though 40% was a little high but I went with it.

That's 1.095SEK/liter ($0.0418USD/gallon) saved.

It would take decades to break even, or tons and tons of miles(kilometers) in a shorter time period.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

I believe its more like 30% worse gas mileage.

Yes you'll get ~28% less mpg so if you were getting 20.0mpg on regular gasoline, you'd get 14.4mpg on E85. I used the metric L/100km which is an inverse calculation of mpg.

20.0mpg = 11.8L/100km
14.4mpg = 16.3L/100km

That means you require 38% more fuel to cover the same 100km distance.
If you apply the above example using the fuel prices in SEK, the fuel cost per 100km would be:

Gasoline: 11.8 x 15.75 = 186 SEK per 100km
E85: 16.3 x 11.25 = 183 SEK per 100km

In other words, it's almost identical and the cost of E85 isn't low enough to be an incentive to convert. Even the annual vehicle tax saving isn't significant enough to offset the cost of the conversion. Therefore the only incentive for doing it is the knowledge that you're using a biofuel that has the dual environmental benefits of being carbon neutral and producing much lower NOx emissions.

 

[tjm73]

Of course this all glosses over the studies tying Ethanol to the formation of smog. But, well, nobody ever wants to talk about that.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/reduce-air-pollution-do-not-rely-on-ethanol/