2008 4.6L Unusual Noise Engine Failure

[Jericho]

Hello,

For me this is something of an emergency - especially with Christmas being three weeks away - so any help you can provide will be appreciated.

Today during morning commute driving roughly 40mph, I heard a high pitched noise which sounded like a small turbine spinning down, then immediately experienced engine failure. I restarted the car and it drove like a champ. After dropping off my wife, on the return trip it did it again - this time while taking a relatively sharp right turn.

Same high pitch spinning down sound, then engine failure. When I restarted the engine it knocked like crazy. I shut down and restarted - same knocking. I drove the car low speed trying to get it to a place I could park it when the knocking went away.

At that time I asked the car to get me home and proceeded to drive it home without issue. My back seat is off for my upcoming dynamat adventure so perhaps that helped me hear the noise. I THINK it came from the rear of the vehicle but because the pitch was so high - I genuinely can't be sure.

The noise made me think 'pump' but after googling fuel, oil, and water - I'm not sure anything I've read sounds like what I'm describing above.

The vehicle has 115,000 miles, and has been progressively reworked over the past year: Rebuilt trans, new fuel filter, removed Charge motion plates, new motorcraft one piece plugs, New manifolds, catless mids, and exhaust. A bunch of suspension work, braided lines, brakes - etc.

I only saw the normal gauge lighting one would normally see when an engine stalls. No apparent CEL - certainly nothing persistent. I have a bluetooth OBD connector I'll have to dig up to verify no stored codes.

Really though, thanks for reading this novel, and if you can offer advice - I would appreciate it. I'm really concerned about this against the financial demands of the upcoming holiday and I'm clueless as to the issue.

Any questions, please ask. I'll be checking this thread regularly...

 

[stang_gang]

I'm just spit balling but it sounds like the fuel pump because it would make the engine die from fuel starvation and without adequate fuel your engine could also knock. If its not the fuel pump I think its at least fuel related because the constant dying of the motor and knocking.

 

[msvela448]

I agree...fuel pump, or FPDM making pump do weird things. If you have the rear seat out the pump is right behind you and would definitely be more audible. It is easy to change...there's lots of how to videos out there if you need one. "Ford Tech Makuloco" is one of the more reputable guys on YouTube.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Jericho]

I ordered a Walbro pump that arrived today, but I know next to nothing about the Driver Module so I'll have to read up on that. Thanks for weighing in!

Edit: Turns out they're pretty easy to come by. Picked one up on eBay for $30... If I need it, cool, if not? Parts box.

 

[eighty6gt]

if the whining is from the engine I've seen these same symptoms as phasers/phaser solenoids failed which failed the oil system and nuked the entire engine.

 

[Jericho]

I truly hope that's not the case, I hadn't financially planned to work on cams and such until mid-March... I've already invested in the pump/FPDM so I should have some additional insight tomorrow.

 

[Jericho]

Not the fuel pump... Installed the Walbro yesterday and it (power loss while driving) happened today - only without the whine or knock.

So the whine was the pump but I don't yet know why. FPDM is apparently being shipped via bicycle courier because it won't be here 'til Thursday.

Could this be an SJB related issue? I did get water in the cabin, of course on that side, which led to a B1353 (key-in circuit open) - but have had no symptoms outside the radio yet. I've got a spare SJB but I haven't had it programmed.

I'm having a problem figuring out where the fuel pump relay is - under a seat somewhere or in the Junction box.

Anyway, that's where I am...

 

[msvela448]

FPDM is in the spare tire well. I believe the relay is in the fuse box on the passenger side of the engine compartment.

Can you read PID's with a handheld controller... See what your fuel PSI and duty cycle values are.

Kind of seems fuel related if the new pump helped.

All spark plugs good and tight? Coils plugged in and test okay? Fuel pressure sensor okay?

Since the SJB is such a PITA... Just trying to think of everything else before you tackle that.

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[eighty6gt]

Put a mechanical oil pressure gauge on it

Bet you have no oil pressure

 

[tjm73]

I would not be driving this car if I where you until you find the cause. If it is oil related you keep running it dry till it quits.

 

[Jericho]

Car hasn't been driven since the pump install, post knock failure. Currently waiting on relays and FPDM... Arriving around end of week. Also going to clean the SJB connectors with anti-corrosion spray and some brushing.

Oil Pressure can be checked as well, probably Thursday or Friday.

 

[skwerl]

Just for giggles, how long since your last oil change (in miles) and what weight oil was used?

Also, cam phasers are not all that difficult to change as long as you have some mechanical skill and physical dexterity.

 

[Marble]

Put a mechanical oil pressure gauge on it

Bet you have no oil pressure

My car acted the same with no oil pressure light on.

So I would do the oil pressure, fuel pressure and after oil pressure, pull the filter and check.

Motor could have eaten a bearing or the oil pump. Diagnosis first before buying parts.

 

[Jericho]

Minor update with potentially relevant question.

First, had the oil pressure tested today but unfortunately I don't have the numbers available to me right now, Mostly looked spec, roughly 75 psi, peaked to 90 during start but I do know that there was one reading ~ 2000 rpm when warm where the pressure dropped to 20 psi. Can and will post the complete results tomorrow when I have access to them (forgot at work).

It occurs to me that I had my oil changed the day before Thanksgiving and began experiencing the issue within 100 miles of that change; used 5w20 full synthetic.

My question is this, could a shoddy oil change produce a situation where I have pressure problems? i.e. Wrong filter/incorrect filter install, jarred or displaced sending unit, etc?

My apologies to those of you who are regularly checking this thread, I had intended to have functional data to provide you by this evening, but a brainfart derailed that plan.

Also, to Marble: You're indisputably correct but I sometimes have to weigh my lack of knowledge against the cost of swapping components as a means of troubleshooting; I know it's not ideal but I really am trying to learn where and when I can. People like you are helping guys like me learn to keep my car on the road.

Once again, my sincere thanks.

 

[skwerl]

Based on your last post I'd recommend getting your oil changed again. Go ahead, splurge on the $30. Hopefully the kid who does it isn't distracted by his IPhone while working on your car.

I'd change it myself but I'm funny like that.

 

[Jericho]

Skwerl, I'm doing my best here...

 

[eighty6gt]

Maybe the oil change kid blew the engine

 

[Jericho]

Update: Reseated sending unit and replaced filter with Motorcraft.

Tech notes from yesterday:

"Shaky needle at idle, a little better when warmed up, hearing a little lifter noise? exhaust tick? Needle shakes with noise. At idle, cold: 60-82, 76-82 at 2000rpm. At idle, warm: 20-55, 65-72 at 2000rpm. Avg: 70psi."

Your thoughts?

 

[JeremyH]

Pressure numbers look fine.

 

[Jericho]

JeremyH: Thanks for taking a look. With the thread trending toward oil pressure and VCT Solenoid/Cam Phasers, I was concerned by the low warm idle numbers.

I'll take it out tomorrow and see if the issue occurs.