Area under the oem torque curve

[Enfield]

Is there an aftermarket NSR cam that gives better torque than oem as low as 3000 rpm?
4.6 3v NA, by the way.
tia, Enfield

 

[tjm73]

I have no idea, but I have always wondered if a custom set of cams could improve power down low without hurting power at the upper end.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

Is there an aftermarket NSR cam that gives better torque than oem as low as 3000 rpm?
4.6 3v NA, by the way.
tia, Enfield

In a word, no. None of the aftermarket cams can beat the OEM units for torque from idle to 4400rpm, and all of them only advertise power gains from at least 4400rpm upwards with an inevitable torque loss below that.
Of the NSR cams, the CompCams stage 1 (#127050) provides a decent balance between good top end power gains (20-25rwhp) and minimizing the loss in low rpm torque output (10-15rwtq from 2500rpm downwards). Torque gains appear from 4700rpm upwards.
The aftermarket cams that come closest to providing excellent top end HP/TQ gains while minimising lower rpm torque loss are the CompCams SPR stage 1 (#127400). These have a relatively short duration and short valve overlap to provide good idle quality and low rpm driveability, while the higher valve lift increases cylinder filling and volumetric efficiency. They work especially well with ported heads. However they require upgraded valve springs and cam phaser limiters, thus adding at least $500 in parts costs.
Whichever cam you choose, plan for an ECU retune (Lito's the man).

 

[Juice]

Is there an aftermarket NSR cam that gives better torque than oem as low as 3000 rpm?
4.6 3v NA, by the way.
tia, Enfield

You are after "ported heads w/stock cams"
Or
A supercharger.

 

[tjm73]

A custom cam tailored for the engine combination can do almost magical things for push rod SBF's. I don't think the 4.6 3V would be much different if you got with a reputable custom cam person. FTI is highly regarded in the SBF circles. Might be worth looking into custom cams if you really want cams.

Otherwise, as Juice said, supercharger. Specifically a positive displacement supercharger.

 

[Enfield]

Thanks, all. Guess I'll just stick with new shocks/bushings, wheels & tires, and interior refresh for this year and let the car's piggy bank refill. The most important performance yardstick for me is 50-90 mph in 3rd gear, or roughly 3000-5500 rpm: passing quickly on a 2-lane country road. No sense installing cams now if there's a PD booster coming later.
Convertible season is just around the corner!
Enfield

 

[Pentalab]

Thanks, all. Guess I'll just stick with new shocks/bushings, wheels & tires, and interior refresh for this year and let the car's piggy bank refill. The most important performance yardstick for me is 50-90 mph in 3rd gear, or roughly 3000-5500 rpm: passing quickly on a 2-lane country road. No sense installing cams now if there's a PD booster coming later.
Convertible season is just around the corner!
Enfield

Any PD blower will provide for the instant TQ hit.... and 50-90 mph in 3rd gear will be blinding fast..like asap.

 

[Enfield]

OK, there's a wrecked 428R that's being parted out on FB, about 5 hours away:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/301652027966399/?ref=saved&referral_code=null

When asked to sell just the [M90] s/c kit, he replied that no, he would sell the motor for $5k.
When I responded that the pix showed a trashed heat exchanger and ad cited a "nicked" valve cover, he replied that they would test run the motor in their shop.

Ad says 52k miles. Since Roush claims 435/400 with I guess stock exhaust, and I have LTH and catless X, it should meet my goal of 3000-5500 in 3rd pretty easily. Would need a tune.

My current [not built] mill has 95k with no leaks, solid compression, and UDP's - which won't work with a PD s/c. No idea what it's worth.

Worth pursuing? tia,
Enfield

[Since I'm OP of the latest thread here, saw no need to start another]

 

[MrAwesome987]

In my opinion, you can get a better setup for the about the same money. You can get a DOB (Department of Boost) intake and M122 blower for similar money to throw on your current engine. It'll make more power, and if you ever decide to build the engine, you can upgrade the blower and make as much power as you want.

Edit to add link: https://www.departmentofboost.com/

 

[Enfield]

True as far as it goes, but I'm not going to spend for new retail. Certainly would not pay $5000 for the FB piece linked above, either. If I could pay somewhat less and swap in the Roush engine complete, then I could sell my current engine and only be out about half the cost. My DOB 450hp "current build" page is up around $6k, once you add injectors, pulley assemblies, catch can, mounts, tuner/tuning, etc.

 

[MrAwesome987]

True as far as it goes, but I'm not going to spend for new retail. Certainly would not pay $5000 for the FB piece linked above, either. If I could pay somewhat less and swap in the Roush engine complete, then I could sell my current engine and only be out about half the cost. My DOB 450hp "current build" page is up around $6k, once you add injectors, pulley assemblies, catch can, mounts, tuner/tuning, etc.

I'd say $6k is about what you'd spend on DOB setup without some serious frugalness.

I think I spent about 6k including Cams and tuning, and a real balancer (don't cheap out on the balancer, FYI).

 

[tjm73]

If you bought the Roush engine for $5200, you wouldn't get "about half" back selling your engine.

 

[Enfield]

If you bought the Roush engine for $5200, you wouldn't get "about half" back selling your engine.

No, I wouldn't, but it might be available for less when all is said and done. The question is whether I should pursue that option at all. DOB claims that the Roush manifold will not properly cool the A/F charge under real world conditions. That may be so when your world includes drag racing - which I don't do - or even road racing with this car. Just cruising, which can be a lot of fast safe fun in parts of the West.

So, how about it: can the Roush manifold work for high-speed cruises? Can you bolt an M122 on it?

 

[Midlife Crises]

If you are hobbling your pony with the stock short block it does not matter if you chose the M90, M122 or a 2.3 TVS. They are all capable of producing more power than the stock bottom end can stand. The M90 really is outdated and doesn’t provide much room to grow. The M122 is certainly a good choice with the DOB manifold and the 2.3 TVS works great too. Evan on a Roush manifold. The greatest difference you will see between them will be in how much money you want to spend on a heat exchanger and pump. I have a Roush packaged GT500 heat exchanger and pump and it is not big enough. Also getting the heat out from under the hood is a problem. It doesn’t do any good to pull cold air in through the grill and heat it by the time it gets to the throttle body because the air duct is on top of the engine. Just creates more work for the intercooler.

 

[Enfield]

OK, enough about M90's. Bottom line, Roush doesn't support the product any more; in fact, a tech guy there suggested that I get a 2300 blower if I wanted good support for common wear items. Still not convinced that a DOB manifold is necessary for a street-only car, but clearly they know their stuff.

Circling back to the original subject, I recall that back in road racing days the stock [required] Nissan cams had poor quality control on their timing. There could be significant [10 degrees+] differences in valve events between cylinders. Thus, a precisely reground cam that still retained oem lift and duration provided a significant performance advantage. Using a regrind on a well blueprinted engine with ARP fasteners let me run a lot more rpms, which in turn meant better torque after shifts in the super wide ratio 4-speed box, and it allowed a shorter final drive.

Is there any data to show whether the stock Ford cams exhibit good quality control when it comes to cam timing? If they don't, then a good, mild custom grind might pay for itself by giving more power at higher rpm without danger. Leads to the last question: what part of the stock 3v is most compromised by higher rpm? tia,

Enfield [hoping the answer isn't "rod bolts"]

Ps. Just ordered 275/40's to replace decrepit rear 295/45's.

 

[Midlife Crises]

Small displacement V8. Small bore. Limited port flow to support high RPM operation. Valve shrouding is a problem when looking for larger valves. Money will overcome most of these problems but forced induction is much more affective and will provide a broader power range.

 

[Pentalab]

[QUOTE Leads to the last question: what part of the stock 3v is most compromised by higher rpm? tia,

Enfield [hoping the answer isn't "rod bolts"]

[/QUOTE]

The weakest item is the oem connecting rods...they are pretzel sticks.

 

[Pentalab]

[QUOTE Leads to the last question: what part of the stock 3v is most compromised by higher rpm? tia,

Enfield [hoping the answer isn't "rod bolts"]

The weakest item is the oem connecting rods...they are pretzel sticks. Story I got was the force on the rods increases to the square of the RPM. I also heard the stress on the rods goes up to the cube of the RPM. With PD blowers, you get the big tq hit..at low rpms ( unlike a centri). With any PD blower, for general street use, you don't need to wind the rpm up to the moon.

 

[Midlife Crises]

With any PD blower, for general street use, you don't need to wind the rpm up to the moon.

That is the key to a fun ride in a nut shell. You can play with all the mid range torque and power and not have to rev the hell out of it. Passing at hi way speed without downshifting is easy.

 

[Midlife Crises]

The weakest item is the oem connecting rods...they are pretzel sticks

Funny. The company I worked for had all gasoline vehicles converted to natural gas or dual fuel. Including 5.4 3V and a couple of Triton V10s. One V10, on a cold start backfired then would not start. Broke the plastic intake manifold and broke two connecting rods.