Brembo 4P/6P & Handling

[007Stallion]

Hello,

I am currently looking to improve the crap braking on my ‘07 GT. Looking at either the 4P or 6P setup. My question specifically regards the 6P setup and all the unsprung weight that comes those behemoths.

Any thoughts on how the handling will negatively be affected? How much? I’m sure there has to be some negative impact. I couldn’t really find a previous threads on this.

Thanks for your input

 

[07 Boss]

What kind of issues are you having with crap braking? I have stock calipers with aftermarket rotors and pads and never have had an issue. I mean if you can get the wheels to lock up or the ABS to kick on there is no brake kit that is going to get you to slow down any faster. You're only going to stop as fast as your tires will let you. Getting good tires will improve braking better than a big brake kit.

But, with that said, the advantage to big brakes comes with the ability to absorb more heat without affecting performance.
So if you autox or road race there are some advantages to offset the disadvantage of greater rotational mass. For normal or drag strip action the stock calipers are fine with upgraded pads and rotors. Maybe even some stainless lines to help brake feel but like I said, you're not going to stop any quicker than a good operating stock system.

 

[07 Boss]

Any additional rotational mass will make your car slower. Whether you notice a difference in acceleration or power is hard to feel but it is there. ET's and trap speed will go down. By how much, I couldn't tell you, but its the physics.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

Since ~70% of your braking comes from the front, you really only need to upgrade those. Everyone and their dog wants to show off big, fancy Brembos to their buddies but as @07 Boss said, you don't need them for spirited driving on public roads. Our ~3500lb cars are comparatively lightweight by today's standards.
I'd recommend Powerstop rotors at the front with Hawk pads and stainless steel lines on all four corners. You can retain the stock calipers, clean them up, and paint them in your favourite colour. If the rear rotors have seen better days, you could also replace those with Powerstop units.
Finally, as @07 Boss correctly pointed out, bigger badass-looking brakes will be completely useless if your front tires grip like well-greased banana skins.

 

[007Stallion]

Boss, Dino;

Thanks for replies, I understand all the points you made. The stock brake system just doesn’t seem to inspire any braking confidence in spirited driving on the back mountain roads of PA.

I bought the car 3 years ago this March and the brakes were trashed on it; rear calipers were frozen. Bought all new parts to redo the factory brakes: powerstop f&r calipers, can’t remember the rotors, akebono pads, and powerstop SS lines. They work, just not like I want them to. Had to do a quick full brake job so the car could be inspected after I bought it.

Tires are 255/45ZR18 MPSS 4 so they are not the issue. I am however going to a set of Bridgestone Potenza 285/35ZR19 so not sure the larger wheel/tire will work any better with this brake setup.

In short the brakes suck ass and I hate the long pedal travel, but that seems to be how they are (my wife’s old ‘99 F150 was the same way)

I looking to replace the rotors with some StopTech’s (had very good exp. with them before) and was thinking of going with 4P Brembo calipers up front. Undecided on pads.

I understand the negative effects of the rotational mass and positive effects of 6P’s setup of thermal mass.

Came across a lot of threads on 6P Brembos and wondered what the weight penalty's affect was on handling since no one really commented on it. I think it’s a valid concern for those that go with these big brake setups. I figure the 4P setup should be negligible over stock.

Thoughts?

 

[SilverMustangGT]

The four piston Brembos is a good upgrade and you will notice an improvement over stock. Not every rim clears the 4 piston calipers, so you need to check this.
I'm using the Brembos with the G-Loc R6 brake pads and have noticed a significant improvement. The R6 brake pads do make a little noise, but they do make other ones for street performance.

I don't see any benefits of going to 6 piston unless it's setup primarily for road racing. There aren't many rims that clear the 6 piston calipers.

 

[007Stallion]

Silver,

Thanks for the input on the brake pads you were using. I was thinking that the 4P Brembo calipers had to be an improvement over the stock two pistons, or else Ford wouldn’t have used them on the GT500.

I just recently purchased a set of 19 inch wheels just for the purpose of upgrading to the larger rotor/caliper. It also just so happens that they will clear the 6P Brembo but I realize that on the street they are more for eye candy than performance benefits.

I will look into the street version of those pads that you mentioned. I hope to get some other recommendations on pads that work well on the streets, but also won’t eat the rotor to pieces.

 

[SilverMustangGT]

The extra weight from the 6 piston calipers shouldn't really affect the handling. Most 19" rims weigh more than the 18" rims and this could have a small impact on handling, but not really enough for you to notice.

 

[007Stallion]

Thanks Silver, that’s kind of what I was wondering about. Indeed the additional weight of the calipers and 15 inch rotors are going to add a lot of unsprung weight to each corner, so acceleration, and possibly even deceleration are going to be affected.

I guess I should’ve phrased my original question better, I assume the additional unsprung weight would have to have some effect on the handling due to the steering rack having to move that extra weight along with the increased weight of the wheel tire combination.

Surely, automotive engineers would have to account for the additional weight of these massive brake kits when designing their vehicles. I don’t think the buying public would tolerate poor acceleration and handling.

 

[007Stallion]

either way, I need to do something about the braking performance and I know the proper pads and rotors are going to have a lot to do with that. I have fairly decent pads and rotors on my car now, but they’re just not cutting it.

 

[GriffX]

The OEM Akebono pads are awful, if you change them to semi-metallic or organic abrasive pads you get much better braking. I have the EBC Yellow now, but they increased price almost 100% compared I bought them.
But, I would like to have a bigger brake booster, because Autobahn, but I don't think there is one. And maybe old S550 calipers, but have no 18' wheels.

 

[007Stallion]

GriffX, yes the Akebono pads don’t seem to do much. I got the pads that were one level up from OE pads; I forget the name.

I bought them because I had really good luck with them on a 2012 Nissan Altima coupe (it was my DD) paired with StopTech slotted rotors. Those pads and rotors went +60k miles with me banging through the gears every day up and down two mountains that was my daily commute with plenty of pad and rotor life left when I sold it.

 

[2008_ScarlettGT]

Boss, Dino;

Thanks for replies, I understand all the points you made. The stock brake system just doesn’t seem to inspire any braking confidence in spirited driving on the back mountain roads of PA.

I bought the car 3 years ago this March and the brakes were trashed on it; rear calipers were frozen. Bought all new parts to redo the factory brakes: powerstop f&r calipers, can’t remember the rotors, akebono pads, and powerstop SS lines. They work, just not like I want them to. Had to do a quick full brake job so the car could be inspected after I bought it.

Tires are 255/45ZR18 MPSS 4 so they are not the issue. I am however going to a set of Bridgestone Potenza 285/35ZR19 so not sure the larger wheel/tire will work any better with this brake setup.

In short the brakes suck ass and I hate the long pedal travel, but that seems to be how they are (my wife’s old ‘99 F150 was the same way)

I looking to replace the rotors with some StopTech’s (had very good exp. with them before) and was thinking of going with 4P Brembo calipers up front. Undecided on pads.

I understand the negative effects of the rotational mass and positive effects of 6P’s setup of thermal mass.

Came across a lot of threads on 6P Brembos and wondered what the weight penalty's affect was on handling since no one really commented on it. I think it’s a valid concern for those that go with these big brake setups. I figure the 4P setup should be negligible over stock.

Thoughts?

Which 19” rim are you going with? I can vouch personally that all 19” wheels do not clear the 6 piston Brembos from a s550 Mustang. I have AMR wheels with 19x8.5” up front and 19x10 in the rear. The wheels have plenty of depth to clear so offset wasn’t my issue, the inner diameter of the 19” wheel was the issue. After messing with them and not being able to properly balance my wheels, I stepped down to the 4 piston Brembos. I personally like the 4 piston setup better. Not only are my wheels balanced properly now, but the pedal feels better. I did not like the feel of the pedal with the 6 piston brakes. I also did stainless lines at the time of the original 6 piston swap and carried these over to the 4 piston.

 

[GriffX]

I don't think that the piston number is important for DD.
The quotient between tire size and rotor size is the key, with the same leg force and therefore pad clamping force you get more result due to the longer lever. (hope you can understand me). My Mercedes has TRW 1 piston calipers but a better quotient and breaks harder than my Mustang.
Remember the Buell motorcycles with the giant one rotor brake at the front?

 

[SilverMustangGT]

The 4 piston Brembo kit that I purchased came with the calipers, rotors, brake pads and brake lines. Seemed like quality rotors and the brake pads were fine for the street. Under hard braking while autocrossing the G-Loc brake pads were noticeably better than what came with the kit.

Not sure there's improved performance with slotted or crossed drilled rotors on the S197, so staying with the blanks is a good way to save money. Most of the folks that I know that do track days/road race their S197 just us a high quality blank. I'm still using the same rotors that came with the kit and they're performing great.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

Boss, Dino;

Thanks for replies, I understand all the points you made. The stock brake system just doesn’t seem to inspire any braking confidence in spirited driving on the back mountain roads of PA.

I bought the car 3 years ago this March and the brakes were trashed on it; rear calipers were frozen. Bought all new parts to redo the factory brakes: powerstop f&r calipers, can’t remember the rotors, akebono pads, and powerstop SS lines. They work, just not like I want them to. Had to do a quick full brake job so the car could be inspected after I bought it.

Tires are 255/45ZR18 MPSS 4 so they are not the issue. I am however going to a set of Bridgestone Potenza 285/35ZR19 so not sure the larger wheel/tire will work any better with this brake setup.

In short the brakes suck ass and I hate the long pedal travel, but that seems to be how they are (my wife’s old ‘99 F150 was the same way)

I looking to replace the rotors with some StopTech’s (had very good exp. with them before) and was thinking of going with 4P Brembo calipers up front. Undecided on pads.

I understand the negative effects of the rotational mass and positive effects of 6P’s setup of thermal mass.

Came across a lot of threads on 6P Brembos and wondered what the weight penalty's affect was on handling since no one really commented on it. I think it’s a valid concern for those that go with these big brake setups. I figure the 4P setup should be negligible over stock.

Thoughts?

It would have been useful if you'd provided that information in your first post.

 

[007Stallion]

Scarlett,

I went with ESR CS8 in 19x10.5 +30 in Apex Blue. Got them for $155/piece plus an additional 10% off. Their website stated the 19x9.5 +35 would clear Mustang PP Brembo, so I called and confirmed the 10.5” width fitment with 6P Brembos

https://esrwheels.com/collections/cs-series/products/new-cs8-apex-blue

 

[TheGanzman]

One thing that *I* have noticed with Brembo brakes (and I'll couch this by saying that maybe they've changed them recently), is that they seem to result in longer brake pedal travel. If that might bother you, do your due diligence on same...

 

[007Stallion]

Dino, I didn’t provide that information beforehand because none of it was relevant to the question posed. I do appreciate your input as I have read quite a bit of your comments on here and have learned quite a bit.

 

[DieHarder]

The four piston Brembos is a good upgrade and you will notice an improvement over stock. Not every rim clears the 4 piston calipers, so you need to check this.
I'm using the Brembos with the G-Loc R6 brake pads and have noticed a significant improvement. The R6 brake pads do make a little noise, but they do make other ones for street performance.

I don't see any benefits of going to 6 piston unless it's setup primarily for road racing. There aren't many rims that clear the 6 piston calipers.

As Silver says they're a good upgrade (I use them myself) and they didn't cost much. Just go to most any auto parts store and ask for reman 08 GT500 4P Brembo calipers. Think I paid $125 ea side (without a core) and another $200 for new rotors/brake pads. All in all about $450 out the door. Upgrade your brake lines to steel braided at the same time. You can order everything from O'Reilly's. That was 3-4 yrs ago so likely higher now but they came powder coated in gloss black and made a significant difference in braking distances (saved me once actually). I also bought the stock Ford 19" rims (2014 I believe) that fit the Brembo's so I don't have to use spacers but I have them for other rims I have. Totally worth it IMHO and one of the best investments I've made on the car.