Brembo 4P/6P & Handling

[007Stallion]

DieHarder, that’s the setup I’m leaning towards and is quite cost effective. I‘ve seen some use washers between the spindle and calipers on the 4P setup. Is that what you had to do with yours? Or is that for the later style 4P calipers?

 

[GriffX]

One thing that *I* have noticed with Brembo brakes (and I'll couch this by saying that maybe they've changed them recently), is that they seem to result in longer brake pedal travel. If that might bother you, do your due diligence on same...

That means that the surface/volume of the 4 pistons combined is bigger than the Ford 2 piston, therefore you need to pump more fluid for the same brake pad travel. But, this also means a lower pedal force is needed.

 

[DieHarder]

One thing that *I* have noticed with Brembo brakes (and I'll couch this by saying that maybe they've changed them recently), is that they seem to result in longer brake pedal travel. If that might bother you, do your due diligence on same...

I've not had the same experience; pedal travel is very tight. Hardly have to touch them to brake (maybe 1/4" judging by feel) but I'm using the 4P Brembo's v 6P.

DieHarder, that’s the setup I’m leaning towards and is quite cost effective. I‘ve seen some use washers between the spindle and calipers on the 4P setup. Is that what you had to do with yours? Or is that for the later style 4P calipers?

No washers necessary. You have to buy the 14" in rotors that go with the GT500 setup. Just purchase everything needed (calipers/rotors/pads/steel braided brake lines) when you do the order and you should be fine. When you bleed the calipers be sure to follow the procedure to get all of the air out of the system. Have plenty of brake fluid on hand and a friend to help pump the brake pedal.

 

[007Stallion]

Thanks for the info DieHarder. I did some more reading, looks like it’s possibly the s550 4 pots that need to be spaced from the spindle using washers. I ’think’ they are made by Continental, not Brembo, and are much larger than the 4 pot Brembos that came on the 07-12 GT500.

 

[SilverMustangGT]

The Ford Performance kit I purchased also included the front dust shields. I went ahead and flushed out the brake lines with new brake fluid since I was already installing the four stainless steel brake line kit.

 

[007Stallion]

Silver, what brake fluid did you use? I see a lot of people recommend Motul 600 or ATE, but that’s DOT4. Don’t we have to use DOT3 with the manual? I usually just use Motorcraft DOT3

 

[SilverMustangGT]

I have been wanting to do a few track days so I used Motul 600. I haven't had any problems with DOT 4. Nothing wrong with sticking with Motorcraft brake fluid.

 

[007Stallion]

Ok thanks, I may try the DOT4 then or stick with the MotorCraft. Not sure yet, but I have time until the weather warms up.

 

[RED09GT]

I'm using a similar setup to what @DieHarder has. Rock Auto 4 piston calipers, centric blank rotors, and stoptech street performance pads. I saved a couple bucks by using the ford racing Boss 302 brake lines but probably should have just went with stainless.
I use ATE Dot 4 brake fluid and no issues with an OEM ford clutch or slave cylinder for the manual transmission.

 

[ghunt81]

I did the 4 piston swap on my car a few years back myself. The nice thing about that swap is that it's all "plug & play," OEM GT brake lines will bolt up to the calipers and the calipers go right on the spindle. You just need the rotors, calipers, pads and hardware. I think my car has great pedal feel even with new replacement rubber lines.

 

[007Stallion]

I use ATE Dot 4 brake fluid and no issues with an OEM ford clutch or slave cylinder for the manual transmission.

Good to know, thanks. I’ve seen a few different places where it was said to only use DOT3 with a manual car.

 

[007Stallion]

I'm using the Brembos with the G-Loc R6 brake pads and have noticed a significant improvement. The R6 brake pads do make a little noise, but they do make other ones for street performance.

Silver, just exactly how noisy are the R6 pads? Looking for a pad with good bite; don’t care about the dust since I can wash my wheels. I don’t mind a little bit of noise, just so long as it doesn’t sound like someone who never takes care of their brakes LOL. Mostly street driven with spirited drives on twisty mountain roads.

Did quite a bit of searching on this forum and others, but I couldn’t find anything definitive. I did read some felt like the GS-1’s didn’t have much bite, or ‘feel” like it. I was thinking of an R6/GS-1 setup or maybe even R8/R6.

Having a hard time with selecting pads. Not the biggest fan of ceramics.

 

[SilverMustangGT]

It's not uncommon for the R6 brake pads to squeak as you're slowing down for a red light or stop sign. The noise doesn't bother me, but the car isn't a daily driver. I could see the noise getting annoying if I drove it every day.

You could always try a traditional street pad and upgrade to something else if you're not seeing the expected braking power. I used the brake pads that came with the kit for about a year, before I switched to the R6. The original pads weren't bad, but I felt like I was giving up time under hard braking when entering some the hairpin turns at the local autocross events. Not sure you would see that kind of braking on the street.

 

[007Stallion]

It's not uncommon for the R6 brake pads to squeak as you're slowing down for a red light or stop sign. The noise doesn't bother me, but the car isn't a daily driver. I could see the noise getting annoying if I drove it every day.

You could always try a traditional street pad and upgrade to something else if you're not seeing the expected braking power. I used the brake pads that came with the kit for about a year, before I switched to the R6. The original pads weren't bad, but I felt like I was giving up time under hard braking when entering some the hairpin turns at the local autocross events. Not sure you would see that kind of braking on the street.

Appreciate the feedback, I’ll look at some other options.

 

[007Stallion]

Well it’s been a while since I posted to this thread, but I finally decided on my new brake setup and got everything installed this weekend. I want to thank everyone who responded with their feedback and suggestions.

While I was originally planning on using 4P GT500 Brembos, I ultimately ended up going with S550 6P Brembos. I did A LOT of reading here and on TMO regarding these brakes and some of their drawbacks (weight and longer pedal travel). For the way that I use my car the 4P would have been more than adequate; the 6P are really just eye candy over the 4P. Again for the way I use my car.

These are the parts I used:
Front:
- S550 6P Calipers
- MotorCraft BRRF218 Blanks
- SS front brake hoses from LMR
- PowerStop Z26 Pads
Rear:
- MotorCraft BRRF262 Blanks
- PowerStop Z26 Pads
- Rear Caliper Brackets from LMR
- PowerStop Rear SS Brake Hoses (already had)

Flushed the entire brake system with Motul 600 and the old school 2 person method (I think my son still has leg cramps)

Happy to report that everything went together very well without much drama, it was truly a plug and play install.

The only issue I had was bleeding the rear calipers. I had my son press the brake pedal to get the rear piston to come about half way out and then I cracked open the bleeder screw and wound the piston back in. While doing this the piston seal kept wanting to rotate with the piston as it was retracting back in. I was able to get it most of the way straightened back around the piston, but not 100%.

So how to the brakes feel? A lot better than before! The pedal is very high with very little dead space before engaging; 1/2” or so maybe. It’s actually not bad at all and I am someone who prefers a stiff pedal that engages right away. Slamming on the brakes (panic type stop) will nose the car forward and engage the ABS now. It’s also nice that the pedal can be modulated and the brakes are not an on/off switch.

Installed new tires and wheels as well with the brakes. Wheels are SVE MHP1 19x10 +35 and provide plenty of clearance between the calipers in regards to the spokes and barrel of the wheel. Wheel poke is negligible.

Tires are Bridgestone Potenza Sport in 285/35R19. I picked them up at TireRack on clearance for $148 each because they were 2020 production. However, when they arrived the date code was 0422, so that was a nice surprise.

Overall I’m very happy with the brake upgrade; I was concerned about having a 12 foot pedal travel or a spongy wet noodle feel, but that has not been my experience.




Not sure why some of the pics are getting rotated, but hopefully they’re clear enough.

For now, car is at stock ride height on its OEM springs/struts/shocks. Waiting for some warmer weather and time to put an entire new suspension under the car. I already have the parts, just not the time LOL

 

[GriffX]

Just a thought, the dead pedal travel originates also from the the floating rear axle shafts, they push the brake pads aside.

Nice wheels

 

[007Stallion]

Thanks GriffX. I had read about that; is that the same as pad knock back? If I remember that’s why you can’t put fixed calipers on the stick rear ends. Although, some of BBK manufacturers have found a way to do it.

 

[GriffX]

Thanks GriffX. I had read about that; is that the same as pad knock back? If I remember that’s why you can’t put fixed calipers on the stick rear ends. Although, some of BBK manufacturers have found a way to do it.

I'm not 100% sure if that is the reason, but, my C-Class Mercedes drives 135MPH, and has a one piston floating caliper in front and 2 fixed piston caliper in the rear and stops better than my Mustang, not from 65 but from 100+ MPH for sure. I think this piston counting is probably not the important factor in good braking.
I also use DOT4+ liquid (MB needs it), it is like DOT4 with lower viscosity and found no difference. I think a normal driver, not going on a track is not able to go to that limit of the braking systems to see differences in 4 or 6 or 2 piston systems.
For me brake pads is a more important issue.