Cam phaser lockouts??

Discussion in 'Mustang Chit Chat' started by Hollowdweller, Nov 27, 2022.

  1. Hollowdweller

    Hollowdweller Member

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    I was calling around looking for pistons & rods and one of the guys started asking me about cam phasers lockouts. He started saying anything over 500hp you’re gonna want to use them bcz bla bla bla…I got lost lol! I was already lost bcz he was talking about selling me 96-04(?) pistons but he wanted to make me aware of compression or PTV clearance…or something like that…..I dunno fellas, I just want to take the stuff apart and bolt it all back together!! Just looking for a forged setup that’ll handle whatever that 76mm On3turbo will throw at it…650 max really!

    Anyway, I just got the factory Ford timing chain replacement from MMR for my rebuild…did I screw up, do I need cam phaser lockouts? What kind? Will I lose anything using them?
     
  2. Midlife Crises

    Midlife Crises Senior Member

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    The camshafts and valve springs you chose will determine if you need lockouts, limiters or the stock phasers. Do what the cam manufacturer says.:driver:
     
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  3. Hollowdweller

    Hollowdweller Member

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    I’ll be running the MMR stage 1 turbo cams and Manley valve springs. I think they’re Comp Cams so I’ll call them I guess, MMR is terrible dealing with so far.
     
  4. Midlife Crises

    Midlife Crises Senior Member

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    If the cams are a Comp Cams grind you can look them up on line and see what is required to use them. A general description of use, RPM range and what springs are recommended. Also if limiters are needed or not.
     
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  5. Dino Dino Bambino

    Dino Dino Bambino I have a red car

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    Even if phaser limiters aren't required to prevent piston to valve contact, they may be required to reduce the risk of phaser failure due to higher valve spring pressures on a forced induction set up.
    I'm assuming your engine is a 4.6 3V so if you want anything over 450rwtq, it would be wise to upgrade to forged pistons/rods. The 96-04 4.6 2V/4V forged rods would work fine but you'd need 3V specific pistons for the valve reliefs to be in the correct location. You could even use a set of Boss 302 rods. They're forged, inexpensive, and a direct replacement for the OEM 3V rods.
     
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  6. RED09GT

    RED09GT Equal Opportunity Offender S197 Team Member

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    Perhaps the guy was saying that you can use a lot of non 3v pistons depending on how big the cams are and if the phasers are locked.

    Those MMR stage 1 cams probably do close early enough on the exhaust that you won't need the 3v specific reliefs but you'd want the phaser locked to make sure.
    I'd reccommend spend the extra on 3v specific pistons and be sure.
     
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  7. Midlife Crises

    Midlife Crises Senior Member

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    Absolutely! And intended for turbo/blower applications.
     
  8. Hollowdweller

    Hollowdweller Member

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    Yeppers that’s what I’m trying to do but nobody seems to have anything. I’m trying to get a piston/rod combo kit bcz I’m scared to order them separately to be honest. I don’t know what rods will work with what pistons, what rod/piston setup will need reliefs, bla bla bla.

    A guy in here mentioned he had some Mahle graphite coated skirt pistons 11:1 for sale….I’d love to buy them if the price is right but I have no idea what rods will work with them. Then if I order rods seperate…what else will I need to make that setup work. From what I used to read 11:1 is waaay to much for turbo setup but now I here 11:1 is no big deal for turbos….I dunno, I’m trying to stay at 10:1 cuz well….I dunno, that just seems in the middle of what I used to hear and what I hear now.

    I got pissed this morning bcz I saw MMR offering discounts on product I’ve been waiting 5mths to get so I contacted them about it. Hoping to get an email tom with update on order…but my hopes aren’t high
     
  9. RED09GT

    RED09GT Equal Opportunity Offender S197 Team Member

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    Rods are the easy part, as long as you don't buy the ones designed for a stroker, you are golden.
    5.933" long and all stock stroke modular pistons have a 0.822" pin diameter.
     
  10. Midlife Crises

    Midlife Crises Senior Member

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    I have no idea of your budget but a couple of decisions would not be hard to make. Choices are based on forced induction and beating the hell out of it.
    Rods; Manley forged H beams. Stock length.
    Pistons; Wiseco forged 3 valve pistons between 9 and 10 to one compression. Blower, turbo, nitrous pistons will have thicker domes and the top ring will be further down the piston than stock type pistons. They will have floating, stock dia. pins retained with round wire snap rings and the skirt is moly coated. Going into a used block. Pistons 0.020” oversized and bore the block to fit.
    Bearings; Clevite H series for the rods and mains.
    ARP fasteners throughout.
    Just my thoughts.
     
  11. Laga

    Laga Senior Member

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  12. Hollowdweller

    Hollowdweller Member

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    MMR just called and said 2wks on rest of parts soooooo…we’ll see!

    I went with the Melling 10341 high flow oil pump…is that bad?
     
  13. Laga

    Laga Senior Member

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    I hope not. That’s what I got!
     
  14. Dino Dino Bambino

    Dino Dino Bambino I have a red car

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    There's nothing wrong with it. The Melling 10341 is an upgraded version of the Melling 340HV (20% higher volume, standard pressure) with a hard anodized aluminum housing and a cast iron backing plate. A higher pressure spring is an option. The only thing it doesn't have are billet gears.
    Personally I'd go for an OEM 13-14 GT500 pump and add billet gears for a forced induction or a 7000+rpm NA set up. Indeed the 13-14 GT500 pump is advertised as a standard replacement for a 4.6 3V.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2022
  15. Laga

    Laga Senior Member

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    Melling does make a high volume pump with billet gears. I assumed that’s what he was referring to. Or maybe the billet gears are optional. I’ll have to find my build sheet to check model number. The billet gears are a good upgrade with a PD blower. Probably not needed with a turbo.
     
  16. Midlife Crises

    Midlife Crises Senior Member

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    No fooling around here. Billet oil pump gears and a steel timing chain gear on the crankshaft. If you run a two piece adjustable crank gear weld that sucker together after you have degreed the cams.
     
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