Dark_Horse 302 Stroker Turbo Build...Here we go!!

[Dark_horse]

Well guys after 2 months and 2,000 miles on my turbo build the motor blew... Heres the link to my last build thread

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94132

What I think happened...

I believe during the tuning process I had a very small vacuum leak... when I left the dyno I did a couple street pulls and noticed the car was idling and surging pretty bad. I figured it to be a vacuum leak. By the time I got home it was really bad and my boost gauge was registering -4.5 at idol.. So I started looking for the problem. Turns out the rubber cap I used for the PCV port on the intake blew off... Only damn thing I didn't put a zip tie on... So I put another one on followed by a ring clamp... car was idling just fine and boost gauge was reading -20 so I was thinking hell yeah... well what I didn't think about was that the car may have possibly been tuned with a minor leak... car was tuned @10lbs and made 513/475 with a/f right at 11.2 ... My car had been @ 6lbs for the previous 2 months....

I took the car out and at the first light headed out of town I launched it hard... looked up at the gauges at the end of second and all was good but in the middle of 3rd something broke hard... I think it over boosted due to me fixing the vacuum leak.

I need to get my garage in order for a tear down that will most likely start tomorrow and see just how bad it is...

I read every single build thread I could find last night (no sleep). I am not scared of doing my own research but I also know you guys are the greatest and wont have any problems helping me along the way…

Questions I have so far:

Compression: Since I have no idea how much damage is done to the cylinder walls Ill have to wait to order pistons… Ive heard good thing about CP and Diamond.. any input?
Low compression/higher boost or a higher compression lower/boost combination? Is this just a preference or is there pro/cons to each set up?

Will I need an after markert damper or will my bbk udp still work? Couldn’t find this answer..

Engine assembly:
I have never assembled an engine before but that being said I am no dummy. I can follow instructions and have a mechanical mind. I did my own cam swap no problem. Only way to learn is to do it yourself and I want that experience. I have friends that have built ls stuff before to offer assistance and most likely have the tools to check clearances. Can I/ Should I do it myself…

Machine shops:
What are the questions I need to ask to narrow down the right one?

E85:
How big of injectors will it take for 600ish horse power witth E85.. will 60#rs cut it?
Closest E85 to me is 15 miles away… would the benefits of running it be worth it?

Heads and Cams:
Assuming there is no damage to mine currently..
The stock heads flow good enough for 600ish hp right? Or is porting necessary?
Stock cams or Turbo grind for 600hp? I obviously need to upgrade the springs and retainers while im in there regardless right? Motha thumprs are in there now L….

Limiters or lockouts? Pros/cons/benefits…please advise

Throttle body? I have the bbk twin 62 that has seemed to be working just fine.. should I keep it, upgrade to frpp, or go back to stock and sell bbk for more funds?

Rear end:
What gears? Before I was planning on running 3.55 but now im not sure?
Upgraded axles? I have a slightly bent axle on the drivers side so they need replaced anyways… any suggestions on this… they are 31 spline correct? Also depends on available funds at the time of install.. just don’t know how much of an upgrade is needed for my hp goals..



My hp goals and duty purpose of the car:
The car will only be driven on nice days/ car shows/ cruise ins/ and maybe see the track 3 times a year and some street racing events here KC.. I mean Mexico … I do drive the car like someone is chasing me very often…

Im thinking that 600ish horsepower will be a good hp goal that will still be a fun streetable half way reliable car...

I was planning on building a motor for it anyways just not this soon. As luck would have it Suprchrgd posted up a b302 demod sale 3 hours after my car blew that I quickly jumped on...

Other plans:
I am also planning on doing things like a wire tuck, battery/fuse box, ecm relocation along the way as well as paint the valve covers. This list will grow im sure…


As I go I am going to post what I paid for things as well and dedicate a post to parts/price...

Sidenote: I am a manufactures rep with numerous aftermarket companies so I will put an asterisk by parts that I got at a discounted price so that it reflects accurately..

Motor:
Used rotating assembly minus pistons $1500
302 kellogg stroker crank 3.8(2500 miles on this crank)
Manley H beam rods with arp rod bolts and new speed pro bearings (2500 miles on the rods)
8 bolt spec steel flywheel (under 500 miles on the flywheel)
arp head studs,
arp main studs with windage tray,
arp side bolts (2500 miles on these)

Fuel:
S&H performance Walbro 405 pump with fpdm wire upgrade $325 (already had)
60# injectors $200 (already had) – will these be enough for 600ish hp
Mafia $125 (already had)

Turbo:
Entire On3 kit with 70mm package that I purchased off craigslist all for $1500 (already had)
Also included in this sale: (kit and everything was BNIB and still in the bubble wrap)
AEM Wideband with sensor
AEM Boost Controller
SOS dual pillar pod
39lb injectors (will be for sale shortly)
8 HTO plugs

Exhaust:
I will be running a dumped down pipe and wastegate vented to atmosphere
Dynomax muffler and turn down $79 (already had)


Things that I will have for sale very soon: (if your interested before I make my sale ad feel free to shoot me an offer)
Comp Cam 127020 with limiters “motha thumpr”
Flowmaster American Thunder series mufflers 20K miles
OTA exhaust pipe
BBK long tubes
BBK O/R x pipe for LTs
Rousch/Airaid 101mm CIA without insert
BBK udp (maybe)
BBK twin 62 no electronics (maybe)


Well my brain hurts…….. lol!!! Thanks in advance for all the input and comments…

And for those of you who don't know my car meet JEAN !!

 

[Makdaddy]

WOW

Should have started a few threads lol

If you have never built a engine. Then have a reputable shop build it
Not that you cant , but on a high horsepower application you have less room for error.

Just my nickel

 

[Dark_horse]

I didn't get much sleep last night LOL!

I kind of figured that would be the general answer I would be getting... I mainly wanted to do it myself so I could say that I did! I take pride in things like that...

 

[BruceH]

http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=159&viewfile=Engine.pdf

That's the link to motor assembly. I don't think it's too hard. The hard part is the machining. As long as the machine shop does their part then all you are doing is assembly work.

Pick a shop you feel comfortable with. In my case lots of shops said they could do the work but only two had the proper measuring equipment to ensure it. The shop I went with was very familiar with ls motors but not so much with mod. Still, they gave me the best gut reaction and the fact that they did ls and modern hemi work meant they knew what modern mls gasket motors need for finish requirements. They also had a Rottler diamond hone.

Anyway, follow your instincts when talking to machine shops and ask around. Bad shops will have a bad word of mouth reputation.

The frpp iron block 5.0 stroker is due out soon. It's supposed to be around $4600 so there is another option if you can wait.

 

[Dark_horse]

I actually downloaded that last night and thank you for sharing...I am only considering the assembly

 

[johnnyv8]

That sucks man, good luck with the build. I've been running around at 8 pounds with my on3, Hope I don't have any issues. Something similar happen to me when I got my car tuned. We didn't have my boost gauge hooked up yet, and when the tuner went full throttle, it spiked right to 18psi! He let off right away, thank god.

 

[Dark_horse]

My motor had a hard 71k mile life lol...im suprised it lasted at 6lbs

 

[suprchrgd]

Make sure they use tq plates to hone the bores too. When your looking for a shop, be sure to ask this question.

and good luck with the build, i miss my stroker already

 

[Dark_horse]

It will be represented proudly

 

[retfr8flyr]

If you have a machine shop that is familiar with mod motors and does everything correctly, building a mod motor isn't really any different then any other performance engine build. Just check all your clearances about 3 times as you build and you should be fine. The key is having a machine shop do all the machining correctly.



Earl

 

[JoshK]

A question for you earl, What if someone doesn't have access to a lot of the precision tools used to measure the clearances?

 

[Doug M]

Wow Man, sorry to hear this! Good luck with the fix.

 

[Dark_horse]

Good question as well... how about a list of those tools as I wouldnt mind buying them to have in the future depending on how expensive they are...

 

[lethe]

If your a competent mechanic and do your research before assembling you can build your motor yourself. Obviously the machine work will need to be done by a shop bit if you take your time and tripple check all your tolerances and whatnot you will be fine. There is nothing more satisfying firing up an engine for the first time that you built yourself. Its even better when it doesn't blow its guts out on the dyno

 

[BruceH]

Make sure they use tq plates to hone the bores too. When your looking for a shop, be sure to ask this question.

and good luck with the build, i miss my stroker already

That's another thing I've done wrong on both of my builds. No torque plate. Ford designed the mod motor to have minimal deflection common to the cylinder bores, adding in the stiffness of aluminum and the fact that Ford doesn't use them for GT500 or Terminator motors I decided to take a chance. No torque plates and my piston to bore clearance is .0015". About .0005" more than a GT500.

Don't get me wrong, if I was building an all out motor it would be done differently but there are many examples of factory motors doing fine with all the wrong parts when run at reasonable levels.

The most important question for me was "how do you measure ra?" Most shops didn't have a profileometer.

 

[05stroker]

If your a competent mechanic and do your research before assembling you can build your motor yourself. Obviously the machine work will need to be done by a shop bit if you take your time and tripple check all your tolerances and whatnot you will be fine. There is nothing more satisfying firing up an engine for the first time that you built yourself. Its even better when it doesn't blow its guts out on the dyno

I had never built a mod motor before mine either. With proper research and some mechanical knowledge it can be done. And yes the first time on the dyno was very nerve racking pulling to 6800 rpms.

 

[Dark_horse]

Bruce I couldn't get that link to open on the engine assembly... I click on it and nothing

 

[BruceH]

Bruce I couldn't get that link to open on the engine assembly... I click on it and nothing

Sometimes it takes awhile. It's all on pdf. Try this one: http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=158

 

[05stroker]

Bruce I couldn't get that link to open on the engine assembly... I click on it and nothing

Do yourself a favor and go to the dealer and order a Workshop Manual and a Wiring Diagram Manual for you car. It is nice to have them in hand while working on things.

 

[AnotherS197]

Wow, sorry to hear about that. I absolutely love your car. Good to know it'll be back better than ever. As others have mentioned, just take your time, find a good machine shop, read up and you'll be good. Everyone will be here to help you. I'm hoping to be building my motor down the road, just hopefully when I decide to haha.

Good luck! Your car is beautiful, and it'll turn out so awesome.