Long Tube Headers with On3 Turbo Kit

Windy_3V

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So I came across a used On3 Turbo Kit that I’m considering getting for my car. I understand that the kit is intended to be used with the stock exhaust manifolds, but I have long tube headers on the car currently. From what I read, most people will either run stock manifolds or shorty headers with the kit. I don’t really understand how the hot side is routed since I’ve never seen one up close, but is it possible to run the kit with long tubes with some adaptation or would it just be simpler to find some stock manifolds? Figured I’d ask to see if there’s any chance I can avoid dealing with the headers but if I have to I will.
 

Dino Dino Bambino

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Long tube headers increase turbo lag so it's best to run stock exhaust manifolds or shorty headers. You need the distance from the exhaust valves to the turbo impeller be as short as possible to enable the turbo to spool up quickly.
 

whitmanink

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yes unfortunately , dino is spot on with his assumptions.
the lag you would get from the turbo being so far from the exhaust port would be insane,
now with that said, you could do a little turbo to spool up quick but wont yield much power boost and would most likely fail sooner than later,

with a shorty header ,the turbo will spool at about 3200 rpm and 3800rpm,,
with long tubes , your looking at about around 4800\ 5800 rpm, which at that point
as soon as your in the power zone ,you will be out of it, when you shift a moment later
 

Windy_3V

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Yeah I guess I didn’t think about that. I’ve heard people say the stock manifolds retain heat a little better too. Still on the fence about the turbo route since the procharger route is so much simpler. I wish it wasn’t so hard to find them used. But anyways thanks for the replies :)
 

Pentalab

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How do you get the 8 x primary tubes down to just one tube to drive the hot side of a single turbo ? That would be a plumbing nightmare.
One small turbo on each side would vastly simplify the setup.

My JBA ceramic coated LT's retain heat extremely well. The 8 x primary's up to the 2.5" collector get fairly warm to the touch, and that's it, they are the coolest item under the hood, and that's after getting on the PD blower down the street. They dropped eng bay temps by 40F (measured). Part of that is cuz the hi-flow cats now reside beneath the seats.

My issue with the turbo setup and also the centrifugal blowers is...... you gotta wind it up to get the boost. With the PD blower, you get the instant TQ hit, right from idle, instant max boost.
 

MrBhp

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Not much wind up required if set up properly. I use an e-Boost which allows turbo to freewheel, dumping through the wastegate. When I release the clutch, wastegate slams shut. Gives very quick boost. For me, the reason I prefer the turbo is that the "drive" system is free. No loss to power as you have on every other form of super charging, except N2O. Which makes any given hp easier on the rods.

O.P. I have an On3 system on my car. (Mostly On3) The system is ok as is, but there are much better turbos to be had. If the system you get is an older one, it's going to have the old style blow off and wastegate. A lot of performance is to be had with one of the new electronic wastegates.
Nothing wrong with the On3 system as is. There's just a lot left on the table.
 

Pentalab

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Not much wind up required if set up properly. I use an e-Boost which allows turbo to freewheel, dumping through the wastegate. When I release the clutch, wastegate slams shut. Gives very quick boost. For me, the reason I prefer the turbo is that the "drive" system is free. No loss to power as you have on every other form of super charging, except N2O. Which makes any given hp easier on the rods.

O.P. I have an On3 system on my car. (Mostly On3) The system is ok as is, but there are much better turbos to be had. If the system you get is an older one, it's going to have the old style blow off and wastegate. A lot of performance is to be had with one of the new electronic wastegates.
Nothing wrong with the On3 system as is. There's just a lot left on the table.
Points well taken. I learn something new every month.
 

MrBhp

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Points well taken. I learn something new every month.
It was all new to me, bro. I've learned a lot with the Shelby. It's not my first turbo car. I didn't realize the other ones were so slow until I started tuning this thing. I love having full control on the fly. The e-boost is fantastic. There's enough room with the tune to have a wide range of boost with just a few button presses.
 

Windy_3V

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How do you get the 8 x primary tubes down to just one tube to drive the hot side of a single turbo ? That would be a plumbing nightmare.
One small turbo on each side would vastly simplify the setup.

My JBA ceramic coated LT's retain heat extremely well. The 8 x primary's up to the 2.5" collector get fairly warm to the touch, and that's it, they are the coolest item under the hood, and that's after getting on the PD blower down the street. They dropped eng bay temps by 40F (measured). Part of that is cuz the hi-flow cats now reside beneath the seats.

My issue with the turbo setup and also the centrifugal blowers is...... you gotta wind it up to get the boost. With the PD blower, you get the instant TQ hit, right from idle, instant max boost.
Well any manifold with a V8 has to eventually collect 4 pipes to 1 on either side for the dual exit. In the case of the On3 kit, there’s some piping that connects both headers to one single pipe for the turbo. My concern was mainly with length. However, heat is a concern too, but I would assume just as you said that even with the turbo, the long tubes would manage heat better. But as others have mentioned in this thread, the problem then becomes boost lag.
 

Windy_3V

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Not much wind up required if set up properly. I use an e-Boost which allows turbo to freewheel, dumping through the wastegate. When I release the clutch, wastegate slams shut. Gives very quick boost. For me, the reason I prefer the turbo is that the "drive" system is free. No loss to power as you have on every other form of super charging, except N2O. Which makes any given hp easier on the rods.

O.P. I have an On3 system on my car. (Mostly On3) The system is ok as is, but there are much better turbos to be had. If the system you get is an older one, it's going to have the old style blow off and wastegate. A lot of performance is to be had with one of the new electronic wastegates.
Nothing wrong with the On3 system as is. There's just a lot left on the table.
So for the specific kit I found for sale, the seller has a different BOV and wastegate he’s selling with the kit (Not On3 but I don’t remember the brand off the top of my head) To reiterate, I’m not too concerned with getting the most out of the turbo kit since I can’t push much boost on stock internals. I just want some extra power while I build another motor for my bigger plans. I eventually want to go twin turbo and crank some serious power but on a built motor… eventually lol
 

Windy_3V

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It was all new to me, bro. I've learned a lot with the Shelby. It's not my first turbo car. I didn't realize the other ones were so slow until I started tuning this thing. I love having full control on the fly. The e-boost is fantastic. There's enough room with the tune to have a wide range of boost with just a few button presses.
What boost controller are you running? And yeah turbo V8’s are a whole different ball game lol. Keep in mind some of the most powerful cars ever built are twin turbo V8’s or some iteration of that. (i.e. Mclaren, Koeniggsegg, Bugatti, Many drag cars, etc.) High powered turbo builds on these 3 valves are so few and far between but it makes me want to do it more.
 

XJCasper

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Yes. there should be no issue that you have an automatic. I would look into what sort of hp the automatic can handle.

Turbos are so rate on Mustangs of our generation. It's the direction I am going.

Have to pay some bills off first. Then will be pursuing the On3 kit. My debate is to pick up the On3 shorties or stick with stock exhaust manifolds. Keep thinking there is no point to spend additional $'s. Aim for 450 hp and save for a later engine build. Sorry for the random thoughts. Been thinking about this alot lately. And a loud BOV to scare the shite out of the neighborhood problem children.
 

MrBhp

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Turbos love automatic transmissions. You don't lose boost between gears. One of the things the PD guys never worry about. I imagine an older automatic would give up soon after a turbo install.
 

MrBhp

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Yes. there should be no issue that you have an automatic. I would look into what sort of hp the automatic can handle.

Turbos are so rate on Mustangs of our generation. It's the direction I am going.

Have to pay some bills off first. Then will be pursuing the On3 kit. My debate is to pick up the On3 shorties or stick with stock exhaust manifolds. Keep thinking there is no point to spend additional $'s. Aim for 450 hp and save for a later engine build. Sorry for the random thoughts. Been thinking about this alot lately. And a loud BOV to scare the shite out of the neighborhood problem children.
Save your money on the shorties for now. Absolutely zero bang for buck until you get into HP well beyond what our stock rods can handle. So once you build that motor, you might consider it then.
If you had the time you could gasket match your exhaust ports on the head and manifold. Might be worth something...
 

MrBhp

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What boost controller are you running? And yeah turbo V8’s are a whole different ball game lol. Keep in mind some of the most powerful cars ever built are twin turbo V8’s or some iteration of that. (i.e. Mclaren, Koeniggsegg, Bugatti, Many drag cars, etc.) High powered turbo builds on these 3 valves are so few and far between but it makes me want to do it more.
I'm running the Turbosmart e-Boost 2. It has a lot of capability. You can set boost to anything from spring pressure, (in my case 9 lbs.) to three times spring pressure. (In my case, 27 lbs) with a few button pushes. The electric wastegates do away with the spring limitations. You program in whatever psi you want, at any particular rpm and/or gear. No pressure creep or sag. They also cost $1400, for a wastegate! Ridiculous. So, not something you do until you build your motor.

I also recommend the wot box from N2MB racing. It's a two step rev limiter plus a lot more. You have one limiter for launch, say 3200 rpm. Engages when the clutch is depressed. The 2nd step limits your rpm for the rest of the race, say 6500 rpm. Great tool for dialing in your car on various surfaces. I keep a log of expected launch rpms at different locations. My local track. Keith road street race. Canal street race. Evadale highway. Anyway, you see what I'm saying.

You can set various momentary window switches, such as turning on a nitrous solenoid at maybe 1k rpm at W.O.T. Nitrous nozzle being placed just in front of the turbo inlet for very quick spooling. Then you set it to shut off at 3500 rpm. (Thus the "window" designation.) A 50 hp shot does wonders.
 

Windy_3V

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Yes. there should be no issue that you have an automatic. I would look into what sort of hp the automatic can handle.

Turbos are so rate on Mustangs of our generation. It's the direction I am going.

Have to pay some bills off first. Then will be pursuing the On3 kit. My debate is to pick up the On3 shorties or stick with stock exhaust manifolds. Keep thinking there is no point to spend additional $'s. Aim for 450 hp and save for a later engine build. Sorry for the random thoughts. Been thinking about this alot lately. And a loud BOV to scare the shite out of the neighborhood problem children.
Completely agree. I’m pretty much on the same boat as you. Unfortunately I’m going to have to wait a little longer since my stock driveshaft is about to give up and is raising hell under the car. Gonna take the opportunity to do a full T56 swap which will greatly improve the build for the future.

If you plan on getting the On3 kit new, I recommend instead of getting the shorty headers get one of their ball bearing turbos. You should be able to add it on from the website. Not really a necessity for the low power cap of the stock internals but they are better quality and spool faster. Not to mention they sound heavenly.
 

Windy_3V

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I'm running the Turbosmart e-Boost 2. It has a lot of capability. You can set boost to anything from spring pressure, (in my case 9 lbs.) to three times spring pressure. (In my case, 27 lbs) with a few button pushes. The electric wastegates do away with the spring limitations. You program in whatever psi you want, at any particular rpm and/or gear. No pressure creep or sag. They also cost $1400, for a wastegate! Ridiculous. So, not something you do until you build your motor.

I also recommend the wot box from N2MB racing. It's a two step rev limiter plus a lot more. You have one limiter for launch, say 3200 rpm. Engages when the clutch is depressed. The 2nd step limits your rpm for the rest of the race, say 6500 rpm. Great tool for dialing in your car on various surfaces. I keep a log of expected launch rpms at different locations. My local track. Keith road street race. Canal street race. Evadale highway. Anyway, you see what I'm saying.

You can set various momentary window switches, such as turning on a nitrous solenoid at maybe 1k rpm at W.O.T. Nitrous nozzle being placed just in front of the turbo inlet for very quick spooling. Then you set it to shut off at 3500 rpm. (Thus the "window" designation.) A 50 hp shot does wonders.
Yeah they cost a pretty penny but turbosmart is one of the best in the business. Lots of good features too.

The WOT box is one of the parts on my list to get. The no-lift shift is a nice thing to have with the turbos as well. Us manual guys gotta take everything we can get lol.
 

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