M-2300-T brakes, will forgedstar cf5 19x10 wheels fit

Rpm427sc

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Wheels are APEX 19x11 ET52 Anthracite EC-7's. I bought the Ford Racing Hub kit w. ARP studs pre-installed, they are around 3in. It took me a long time to find those wheel spacers, I was almost ready to settle for the Eibach pro spacers and knocking the hardware out that comes with them. The spacers in that pic I found from a vendor on Amazon, and cost me about $30. I checked all the dimensions on them and they were perfect and fit great. The trick I used on getting the 15mm spacer to work (vice a 20-25mm), was setting the factory camber adjustment bolts to max positive setting (which moves the hub away from the strut body, and using camber plates to bring the whole strut/hub assembly back into 1.5-2deg neg camber. Sadly I don't have a shot of the car on the ground right now, its basically in "final assembly", hoping to have it done in the spring.

As it sits now:
24862429_10159710306535611_7650138911564854389_n.jpg
 

Norm Peterson

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Agreed ↑↑↑

Closer to -2° is doable for a dual-purpose car, if only barely. Might work better with lots of roll stiffness, which brings on other downsides.


Norm
 

Juice

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Agreed ↑↑↑

Closer to -2° is doable for a dual-purpose car, if only barely. Might work better with lots of roll stiffness, which brings on other downsides.


Norm

I'm going with -1.7* camber on mine. There is a lot of camber rise with the s197 platform, you don't need as much camber with these cars. Just turn your steering to one side and see how much more negative camber you have with the outside wheel when turning!

Norm, when is your next event for this year? What organization do you run with? I'm guessing you are going to NJMP, and I'm only about 2 hours from that track. :)
 

Sky Render

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I'm going with -1.7* camber on mine. There is a lot of camber rise with the s197 platform, you don't need as much camber with these cars. Just turn your steering to one side and see how much more negative camber you have with the outside wheel when turning!

What? That is all sorts of incorrect. It is a well-known fact that the camber curve on these cars is inadequate for even mild autocross. Most dedicated track cars are running over 3° of negative camber to prevent rolling outside of the curve.

You need to quit posting so much stupid, wrong shit.
 

Norm Peterson

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Norm, when is your next event for this year? What organization do you run with? I'm guessing you are going to NJMP, and I'm only about 2 hours from that track. :)
December 16 at NJMP on Thunderbolt, and I think it was a rather late addition to the schedule if you've been following the NJMP calendar..

It's the track's own day rather than with an independent entity such as HOD/NASA/SCCA. It's also the first one I've seen this year with a "Hot Laps" run group rather than just having various levels of paced laps or ride-alongs. In the past I've run with HOD and SCCA (TNiA), and am looking to run a couple next year with NASA.


FWIW, I'm running something like -1.9°, maybe -2° camber, and it's definitely not enough if you put your left side tires on the 'gators' through Thunderbolt's T10 (the left side basically gets lifted up something like an inch, which pushes camber on the heavily-loaded RF tire a full degree less negative/more positive relative to the pavement than if you stay at least a little off them. MPSS tires, more than 1g sustained. I'm running the tires on max-recommended width wheels, which may be helping things some by not letting the tires roll under as much.


Norm
 

Norm Peterson

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I'm going with -1.7* camber on mine. There is a lot of camber rise with the s197 platform, you don't need as much camber with these cars. Just turn your steering to one side and see how much more negative camber you have with the outside wheel when turning!
To address this in a little more detail, what you're seeing is "camber roll", which is a function of caster and 'steer angle'. Steer angle really doesn't amount to much on the big tracks, so the trig function times that small amount of steering isn't going to be a whole lot either. Thought it's still better than having less or none at all.

MacStrut cars do tend to have a fair amount of negative camber gain in 'bump' (think about when you lower the front). But that does not seem to translate over to much negative camber gain in roll.


Norm
 

Juice

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I'm going by what my car felt like at -0.7* (stock) and what Steeda recommends camber settings when installing their CC plates. I think they say -2* is 'race'. For aggressive street, they recommend -1.25*.

On the Dec 16th event, I wonder if I can sign up for the "hot laps" group. That is the only group I would be interested in. I've been running in the advanced group for many years now.
 

Sky Render

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I run -1.8 for mixed street/autocross. It's not nearly enough, and I'd run a hell of a lot more if it were a dedicated race car.
 

Norm Peterson

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On the Dec 16th event, I wonder if I can sign up for the "hot laps" group. That is the only group I would be interested in. I've been running in the advanced group for many years now.
Try contacting the track directly and provide a summary of your experience. I doubt there's going to be any problem . . . . something like 8 or 9 days left to register and there's only 5 of us in the HL group as of right now.


Edit - I don't have much idea what -0.75° camber feels like. I don't think cambers on my '08 were ever very close to that from the time it left the production line.


Norm
 
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Juice

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Try contacting the track directly and provide a summary of your experience. I doubt there's going to be any problem . . . . something like 8 or 9 days left to register and there's only 5 of us in the HL group as of right now.


Edit - I don't have much idea what -0.75° camber feels like. I don't think cambers on my '08 were ever very close to that from the time it left the production line.


Norm

I need to get my car on the alignment rack before I could commit to going. (working on that) I set camber with a level app on my phone, and stringed the toe. :)

It would be also nice to know how much actual track time we get for $295. I'm used to 4x40 minute sessions a day.

On the camber, I was totally surprised how well the stock suspension worked on track in this car vs my fox body (3100lbs with a ton of suspension & brake mods). That car NEEDED a lot of negative camber. Not so with the s197 (3550lbs). My buddy who will be aligning the car will probably want to just max out the cabmer adjustment for me! lol -2* is my absolute limit for this car. (DD) At this time, I don't think I NEED more than -1.7*, but that could change after the next track day.

Once I put some tack miles on the setup, and have an idea of front tire wear, the alignment will get tweaked for good tire wear to minimize needing to rotate tires. Nothing I hate more than chording an edge of a tire with plenty of 'tread' left elsewhere on the tire. DOT slicks aren't cheap!
 
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Norm Peterson

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Going off memory (the Hot Laps run group was MIA for a while) I think NJMP's own track days run 4 x 25 minutes. Also, there may be some Track Club members running that might not show up on Motorsportsreg.

For alignments, I now use a digital angle finder and strings (I've used other lower-tech and mechanical methods as well) and haven't put a car on a professional alignment rack in over 40 years. Nearest 0.1° for camber might not be good enough for F1, NASCAR Cup, or even NASA TT, but it is more than sufficient for street and HPDE, . FWIW, maximum lateral tire grip does not occur at 0.0° camber but at some slightly negative value.

-2.0° is do-able even for purely street driving . . . if your typical cornering is at least "moderately enthusiastic" (i.e. faster than most). The 626 I used to autocross was running -2.3°.

I hear you on coming into the S197 from a car not as developed for cornering. I used to drive a '79 Malibu, even autocrossed it for a while. Think short-long-arm front suspension with a poorer camber curve than a strut, and a rear suspension that was eerily similar to the Fox-body (springs on the axle instead of on the LCAs, no quad-shocks, and a wider included angle between the UCAs being the main differences). Heh . . . I know for a fact that 3-link rear suspensions had been under discussion over on corner-carvers at least as far back as 2001 or 2002 . . . something I'm always going to wonder about.


Norm
 
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oldVOR

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The OPs title lists the Forgestar CF5, which, has tons of spoke to caliper clearance in both 18 and 19 inch wheels.
A Forgestar F14 in 19x10 ET42 will NOT fit while the F14 in 18x10 ET42 WILL fit due to the dimensional changes with the spoke design on the 19.

APEX wheels in both 18 and 19 will clear big brakes within the barrel and to the spokes as RPM427SC noted.
 

Juice

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Try contacting the track directly and provide a summary of your experience. I doubt there's going to be any problem . . . . something like 8 or 9 days left to register and there's only 5 of us in the HL group as of right now.


Norm

Snow in forecast for thrusday & friday.......Do they plow and/or salt the track?
 

Pentalab

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Wheels are APEX 19x11 ET52 Anthracite EC-7's. I bought the Ford Racing Hub kit w. ARP studs pre-installed, they are around 3in. It took me a long time to find those wheel spacers, I was almost ready to settle for the Eibach pro spacers and knocking the hardware out that comes with them. The spacers in that pic I found from a vendor on Amazon, and cost me about $30. I checked all the dimensions on them and they were perfect and fit great. The trick I used on getting the 15mm spacer to work (vice a 20-25mm), was setting the factory camber adjustment bolts to max positive setting (which moves the hub away from the strut body, and using camber plates to bring the whole strut/hub assembly back into 1.5-2deg neg camber. Sadly I don't have a shot of the car on the ground right now, its basically in "final assembly", hoping to have it done in the spring.

As it sits now:
24862429_10159710306535611_7650138911564854389_n.jpg

What.... 'factory camber adjustment bolts' are you talking about ? Are you talking about aftermarket camber bolts ? I believe they are installeld at the bottom of the strut. If you adjusted them for more positive camber... to move the hub away from the strut body, like say +1 deg, then that + 1 degree would negate from any camber plate adjustment at the top of the strut ?

IE: camber bolts set for + 1 deg camber. Camber plates set for - 3 degs camber. Net camber = -2 degs. have I got the concept correct, or am I out to lunch ?
 

Pentalab

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The OPs title lists the Forgestar CF5, which, has tons of spoke to caliper clearance in both 18 and 19 inch wheels.
A Forgestar F14 in 19x10 ET42 will NOT fit while the F14 in 18x10 ET42 WILL fit due to the dimensional changes with the spoke design on the 19.

APEX wheels in both 18 and 19 will clear big brakes within the barrel and to the spokes as RPM427SC noted.

Vorshlag racing sez their Forgestar F14 in 18 x 11 (with their secret et) will not fit the 13/14 GT-500 15" rotors + 6 piston calipers. Something to be aware of.
 

Norm Peterson

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It's not the offset or the spoke clearance that takes the F14 out of the picture. It's the tapered shape of the barrel. Apparently the CF5 has a straighter/flatter (for lack of any better words) inside-barrel contour that apparently let that model just barely squeak over the bigger brakes.


Norm
 

Pentalab

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It's not the offset or the spoke clearance that takes the F14 out of the picture. It's the tapered shape of the barrel. Apparently the CF5 has a straighter/flatter (for lack of any better words) inside-barrel contour that apparently let that model just barely squeak over the bigger brakes.



Norm


Points noted, but the fellow did say the Forgestar f14, in the 18 x10 with et42 WILL fit the 13/14 GT-500 brakes. It's the f14 in 18 x 11 ( with secret et) that won't fit... like what u now have on all 4 x corners. But you are correct, the CF5 barrel has less taper, more clearance.
 
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