Newly stroked 4.6 3v need cam suggestions

Shakn68

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I live in California and just stroked my NA 2008 4.6 3V motor. It has mildly ported heads, increased compression to 10.5, cold air intake, and shorty headers. I plan on using the stock Intake manifold and injectors. I was told that a mild blower cam will deliver the extra fuel/air needed for the increased volume, yet perform more like the stock cam would have, with the factory tune before being stroked. Is this correct? I live in California and I'm hoping to get a mild cam that will pass CA emission tests on a stock tune. Anyone have success with that?
 

Fast1one

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I don’t have an answer for you but I believe the comp cams 127100 and 127200 are advertised as no tune required. I was planning on going that route since I also live in California and want to slip under the radar with the stock tune only for smog time. Not sure how that would change with a stroker kit.

Does your stroker currently pass and run well with the stock tune? If so I’m very interested in doing something similar.
 

Shakn68

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Fast1one,
This is a new build. Just assembled and ready to drop in, less the cams and timing chains. The machine shop recommended me to use a blower cam. Said the increased volume requires more air and fuel than a stock 4.6. Said the increased stroker volume would slightly mellow out a cams characteristics, as compared to the same cam in a stock configuration, so said to go with a mild blower style cam.
Just looking into how to pass the CA smog test.
 

Dallas281

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wouldn't your engine builder be able to direct you? I'm sure someone like Todd Warren could help you narrow down the selection or grind you a cam.. to answer though, I have talked to some guys that ran through emissions that have had the ford hot rod cams..
 

Dino Dino Bambino

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A stroker with ported heads is going to demand bigger injectors and more airflow, so there's no getting away from needing a custom tune. Therefore you may as well go aftermarket with cams as well. If you like lots of midrange torque, the Comp SPR 127500 would be the way to go. I trust your heads already have upgraded valve springs so you'll just need phaser limiters and new phaser bolts for the installation. Since your engine's a stroker, these cams will be tamer than they would be in a 4.6.
 

Fast1one

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A stroker with ported heads is going to demand bigger injectors and more airflow, so there's no getting away from needing a custom tune. Therefore you may as well go aftermarket with cams as well. If you like lots of midrange torque, the Comp SPR 127500 would be the way to go. I trust your heads already have upgraded valve springs so you'll just need phaser limiters and new phaser bolts for the installation. Since your engine's a stroker, these cams will be tamer than they would be in a 4.6.
The problem is the car HAS to have the stock tune in order to pass emissions. CARB now checks the contents of the tune and does a checksum to ensure that the vehicle is stock from a tuning perspective. There is no way they would know if the car is cammed or even bored/stroked externally but they can definitely check if the tune is stock. It’s getting much more difficult to slip by emissions these days.

The engine would likely run a little lean due to the increased displacement but the long term fuel trims should adjust. Whether they are out of spec enough to throw a code is another question. Maybe increase the fuel rate to compensate? Just spitballing ways of doing it incognito. Once smog is passed you can simply reflash the car with the proper tune. Either way I think the OP might have to be the guinea pig in this.
 

Dino Dino Bambino

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Living in Nazifornia certainly makes adding performance mods more difficult. If a stock tune is an absolute must the OP might as well retain the stock cams, stock intake manifold with CMCVs, stock injectors, and stock airbox (with K&N filter element). Then he'd be totally incognito. Shorty headers won't be a problem 'cause the stock cats are retained.
Hopefully the MAF sensor would provide the necessary adjustment of fuel delivery to maintain the ECU commanded A:F ratio without the STFTs & LTFTs going so far positive as to trigger lean codes since the increase in engine displacement is only 6-7% (assuming 298-302ci).
Keep in mind that every aftermarket cam is going to require a modified tune to fire the injectors earlier in the combustion cycle in order to compensate for the earlier intake valve opening. While you might "get away with" the stock tune with some mild performance cams the engine won't deliver optimum performance, fuel economy, drivability, and emissions. Therefore stock cams with stock tune is best.
Sadly smog inspections are becoming so Draconian that they'll even detect if the ECU has been previously flashed with an aftermarket tune. Therefore switching tunes may no longer be an option depending on where you live. Ridiculous I know!
 
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Fast1one

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Living in Nazifornia certainly makes adding performance mods more difficult. If a stock tune is an absolute must the OP might as well retain the stock cams, stock intake manifold with CMCVs, stock injectors, and stock airbox (with K&N filter element). Then he'd be totally incognito. Shorty headers won't be a problem 'cause the stock cats are retained.
Hopefully the MAF sensor would provide the necessary adjustment of fuel delivery to maintain the ECU commanded A:F ratio without the STFTs & LTFTs going so far positive as to trigger lean codes since the increase in engine displacement is only 6-7% (assuming 298-302ci).
Keep in mind that every aftermarket cam is going to require a modified tune to fire the injectors earlier in the combustion cycle in order to compensate for the earlier intake valve opening. While you might "get away with" the stock tune with some mild performance cams the engine
Sadly smog inspections are becoming so Draconian that they'll even detect if the ECU has been previously flashed with an aftermarket tune. Therefore switching tunes may no longer be an option depending on where you live. Ridiculous I know!
I think emissions standards need to be even more strict. If you spend any time living in the valleys of California you would understand why they are needed. The air quality is a big health concern. But the way they are doing it is certainly draconian. People should be taxed on the emissions they pollute, full stop. If the modification done to the vehicle results in better emissions than stock it should be allowed in all cases. And even if it doesn’t there should a way to register the vehicle with increasingly harsh penalties if it is a gross polluter. But I digress…

Regarding the detection of an ECU reflash this is an unfounded rumor based on fear mongering when the new legislation went into effect in 2021. Even if they could detect whether an ECU was flashed there is no way to tell if it was the dealer or user. Plus this would put new owners in a bind should they previously purchase a vehicle that was flashed by another owner. I haven’t seen any evidence of this in the legislation text or anywhere else online other than rumors.

As long as the vehicle does not throw a code and completes readiness checks it should pass. I would also stay off throttle until the inspection is complete to be safe. It may not run optimally but you can simply reflash after the inspection is done and be good for 2 years. The OP already took the risk by increasing the displacement. Might as well go all in and experiment with cams IMO. Send it!
 

Dino Dino Bambino

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I think emissions standards need to be even more strict. If you spend any time living in the valleys of California you would understand why they are needed. The air quality is a big health concern. But the way they are doing it is certainly draconian. People should be taxed on the emissions they pollute, full stop. If the modification done to the vehicle results in better emissions than stock it should be allowed in all cases. And even if it doesn’t there should a way to register the vehicle with increasingly harsh penalties if it is a gross polluter.

That's the common sense approach we'd all agree to. Unfortunately that doesn't apply in the real world !!!
 

JC SSP

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I am not a tree-hugging person, but I am quoting the internet here.

According to the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), motor vehicles produced about 22% of total U.S. greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions in 2020, making them the most significant contributor to the country's emissions.

We really should focus on who & what produces the massive 78% of worldwide pollution! CHINA anyone???
 

Miker

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I am not a tree-hugging person, but I am quoting the internet here.

According to the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), motor vehicles produced about 22% of total U.S. greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions in 2020, making them the most significant contributor to the country's emissions.

We really should focus on who & what produces the massive 78% of worldwide pollution! CHINA anyone???

If you believe the state of California it's lawn mowers and leaf blowers.
Look for the worldwide maps of the daily shipping lanes or the daily paths of the air traffic. But my catch can will destroy the earth! Fuck California regulations.
 

GlassTop09

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Even if they could detect whether an ECU was flashed there is no way to tell if it was the dealer or user.
Hi Fast1one,

This isn't true anymore as the EPA has hit up on most all the OEM ECU tuning companies (SCT, HPTuners, Cobb, etc) to install a method of ID'ing a tuner (thru the tuning interface being used) who has tuned a vehicle that is using a factory production OEM ECU...........I know this for a fact as HPTuners has done this very thing since the 504 ver of its software for a tuner to gain access to any features in the tuning software that can affect emissions (since late fall 2022).

I've been there, done this myself so I know 1st hand.

Tuner has to take & pass an emissions test in order to get the software key (along w\ a specific device ID # that ID's the interface's owner) assigned to the HPTuners MPVI2, 2+ or 3 interface & unlock these features. Then HPTuners has to send in this info to the EPA now (what allows them to stay in business), so if a vehicle is found to have failed emissions & is turned in to the EPA & the HPTuners tuner interface device ID # attached to the tune calibration will ID the individual tuner\person who tuned the vehicle & turned off\altered any of these specific settings thus HPTuners themselves is in the clear as they have the test results data to show\prove that the tuner\individual was aware\knew better........thus that individual may get the proverbial knock on the door from the EPA.

So, yes they can now if they desire to....................please be advised.
 

Fast1one

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Hi Fast1one,

This isn't true anymore as the EPA has hit up on most all the OEM ECU tuning companies (SCT, HPTuners, Cobb, etc) to install a method of ID'ing a tuner (thru the tuning interface being used) who has tuned a vehicle that is using a factory production OEM ECU...........I know this for a fact as HPTuners has done this very thing since the 504 ver of its software for a tuner to gain access to any features in the tuning software that can affect emissions (since late fall 2022).

I've been there, done this myself so I know 1st hand.

Tuner has to take & pass an emissions test in order to get the software key (along w\ a specific device ID # that ID's the interface's owner) assigned to the HPTuners MPVI2, 2+ or 3 interface & unlock these features. Then HPTuners has to send in this info to the EPA now (what allows them to stay in business), so if a vehicle is found to have failed emissions & is turned in to the EPA & the HPTuners tuner interface device ID # attached to the tune calibration will ID the individual tuner\person who tuned the vehicle & turned off\altered any of these specific settings thus HPTuners themselves is in the clear as they have the test results data to show\prove that the tuner\individual was aware\knew better........thus that individual may get the proverbial knock on the door from the EPA.

So, yes they can now if they desire to....................please be advised.
Ok? Return the tune back to stock. Problem solved. What you just described is the equivalent of showing up to the smog station without a catalytic converter. Why would you do that? Lol
 

AHaze

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I was told that a mild blower cam will deliver the extra fuel/air needed for the increased volume
This is the concerning part. A cam can not add fuel. You're going to be relying on the MAF meter and the the limits of how much fuel the ECU will add through LTFT before it decides something is wrong and throws a DTC.
I assume you're just hoping to use the stock tune to get the car smogged and then change to a custom tune for regular use?
As has been mentioned, you're probably on your own here. Maybe this can be pulled off but you won't know until you try it.
The 10.5:1 compression on the stock tune is also cause for concern. Maybe octane booster will be enough to keep knock at bay, maybe not. I suggest you go light on the throttle while using the stock tune.
One more thing: Is the MAF section of the cold air intake you mentioned the same diameter as stock? If not, I would not run it with the stock tune.
 

Shakn68

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AHaze,
Thanks for good advice. Yes, I have to run the stock air box with the factory tune to pass smog tests. Once passed, I’ll do what is needed to increase the drivability issues from there.
 

Shakn68

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There has to be someone out there with a stroked 4.6 in CA who has passed smog tests? Would love to hear from them. I was hoping not to spend a lot of time switching out cams, tunes, etc. moving forward. But I do love to drive my car as it should be.
 

GriffX

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I think you guys mix several things together which have nothing in common. The pollution a gasoline car emits are nitrogen oxides, sulfur dioxide and unburned fuel. Carbon dioxide is NOT a pollution.
A ULEV II car like the 4.6 emits 20 ml of nitrogen oxides per mile, which is near by nothing. Any candle or barbecue emits 100 times or 1000 times more. The European Union says the outside air should not have more than 40 micro g/m3, the German OSHA allows 3600 micro g/m3 at the workplace, 8h a day and 40 years, go figure.

Carbon dioxide doesn't alter the air quality. It is 0.04% (400 ppm) in the air, these 0.04% CO2 absorbs 98% of the infrared (IR) frequency in the CO2 range. If we double or triple the CO2 concentration only 2% of more "heat" can be added. But a lot more food is added to the planet, because of increased plant growth. Every ppm CO2 added gives less heat than the ppm before.
Methane it is even less. It is 700 ppb (parts per billion) in the air AND the IR frequency is the same as the water frequency, so the heat contribution is neglectable. If we could double the concentration it would add 0.7 W/m2 heat (1366 W/m2 arrives at the atmosphere). That cow farts adds something to this is a blatant LIE.

If the sun changes the radiation of 1 W it is more than all this "man made stuff".

In Germany there is also a SMOG test but I highly doubt that they are capable to read out the myriards of engine ECUs to get to the EEPROM. They sometimes check for the P1000 error code which will be set if the car doesn't pass the internal emission checks. It will be set if you disconnect the battery and erased after several driving cycles.

PS. I'm a chemist with main subject spectroscopy.
PPS: The National Socialist put their own people first and exclude the others, the now ongoing revolution puts their own people last which is more like the communist way. ;)
 
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XJCasper

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1. I don't believe anything th EPA or any governmental agency puts out. Unless there is empirical data released to back it up.

2. Considering I will be running a winter (92 octain) and a summer (E85) tune...
Is there the ability to tune it for best performance, then take it back to the factory tune for emissions purposes?
 

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