Planning to build up my engine.. not an easy task in the land of the sand :(

[G.T]

being all the way across the world in Dubai has a few perks.. but it sure as heck sucks here when you're planning to build an engine

as it stands, i have the H.O Whipple at 10 pounds of boost, pushing around 465rwhp on a very rich tune.

it's been going strong for a little over 5 months now, and has survived the worst of the summer with temps soaring over 105F on a daily basis.

i'm pretty fed up worrying about when my engine will give up, and i'm also getting used to the 465rwhp and want some more

i wanna put together a shopping list.
i think realistically i won't manage to squeeze out more than 580-600rwhp out of the whipple, as i haven't seen anyone there yet.
but i think with a smaller pulley, upgraded fuel injectors and throttle body might get me pretty close.


Now for the build up.
i don't have a single shop in Dubai that i would trust machining anything in my engine, so no boring/honing, etc..
but i could probably have the dealer reassemble the engine with upgraded connecting rods and pistons..

i have a million questions in mind and i'm not sure where to start

so i figured i'd see what you guys think first

 

[thump_rrr]

How much money are you willing or able to throw at it?

My personal preference is to build a completely separate engine and then just do a swap.

I would look at all the reputable sellers and go that route.

That is the route Ron 94tbird has taken and it is the same route I will be takin when money permits.

I will be going with JDM since they have sold me my blower and upgrades and they are also running several of their own cars with them.

JDM is also tuning the whipples now so that is some good news for you also.

 

[G.T]

Unfortunately i don't even have a ballpark estimate on how much this could potentially cost.. but my budget is rather flexible.

after all, i don't wanna half-ass it.. i wanna do it once and do it right.
having two engines seems a bit of an overkill for me.. and is likely pretty expensive

although that gives me the idea of building a motor in the states and having it shipped over as is

 

[F00Mustang]

In your position, you may want to consider ordering a complete long block from someone. If not Boss330, or Larry_H, you could call VT engines, MMR, or Livernois an just have a motor shipped to your door, ready to go. Then have the dealership install it - or do it yourself of you have the tools and knowhow.

i'll probably do that since I don't trust too many shops around me either.

 

[cekim]

Unfortunately i don't even have a ballpark estimate on how much this could potentially cost.. but my budget is rather flexible.

There really isn't a limit of course, you can spend pretty much any amount of money you like...

As for what you _need_ to spend - you can get a nice assembled short block for such a power range from ~$4-6K. You might be able spend less, but you generally get what you pay for and assembly/balancing can make all the difference in longevity/durability and power. The devil is in the details...

I am with thump/tbird on the desire to build a completely separate engine outside the car and then just swap them - BUT it adds significantly to the cost... as does the lack of a local machine shop.

Random parts like cams, cam phasers, timing covers, valve covers, bolts, pulleys, etc... can easily add $1-2K or more to the cost of ported/polished heads (~$2-$3K) and a short block (~$4-6K see above). So, if you do decide to build it up with few if any parts from the running engine, then keep that in mind as you consider short vs long block purchase. Long blocks are going to vary wildly of course but $8-12K is a reasonable ball park to get you started...

Hope that helps give you an idea of what you are looking at...

The real trouble if you don't have a hard budget in mind before hand is the "while it is apart" beast (i.e. "might as well do X while its a part") gets out of control and pretty soon you have $12-15K in the engine...

 

[G.T]

$4-6k and $12-15k?
how much for a complete take-off GT500 engine?

 

[RedFury]

I'm researching an engine build up as well. I'm thinking of doing it when the rain starts, in December. I'm going to order a short block and heads, probably from Livernois, and install it myself. I think the most risky part of it will be degreeing the camshafts. Otherwise it's just a lot of hard (but fun!) work. I'll also do a new transmission, clutch, driveshaft, and differential. (I'm also wondering every day when one of these parts will finally give out...) I don't think the car will be down that long. I'd say less than a month. I'd say you could do all of this as well, since all the tricky engine work is done by Livernois (or your favorite engine builder). All you need to do is write a check and give them a shipping address. A few special hand tools will be needed, but I don't think any close tolerance machining will be required.

 

[94tbird]

i cant imagine what shipping a motor to Dubai would cost but if thats the route you are going to go, Then i would Recommend Larry. No one else will give you such a one on one experience which is exactly what i like.

to give you a rough estimate on where i stand:

Engine:

SB Block Parts:
Teksid Block
Block Cleaning
Block Magnaflux
Boring/Honing
Cobra Crank
Crankshaft Sonic Tested
Crankshaft Turned/Polished
Rotating Assembly Balanced
Manley H-Beam Connecting Rods Part #: 14042-8R
ARP Rod Bolts
Ross Forged 2618 Alloy -16cc Dish Pistons Part # 99806
Ross Piston Rings
Ross Piston Coating (Thermal Barrier Ceramic/Hard Skirt Coating) Part #: EPC104
Ford Stock 4.6L 3V Oil Pump
Clevite Main Bearings
Clevite Rod Bearings
ARP Main Cap Stud Kit Part# 256-5802
ARP Head Stud Kit Part # 156-4201
Fel Pro Engine Gasket Set

LongBlock Stuff:
Livernois Stage 3 Heads
BBR Stage 2 Blower Cams
Canton Windage Tray
Moroso Deep Sump Oil Pan
Oil pan bolts/gasket
All timing components (chains guides ect)


With assembly of all parts into a longblock your looking at approximately 10k. You could always save yourself some dough and keep the stock heads and stock cams. That ought to save you about 3500 or so off the bat.

GT500 takeout engines are roughly 14k

 

[G.T]

thanks Ron!
but please bare me with the following two questions

Long block or Shortblock.. which way to go and why?

also, why the Teksid block and Cobra Crank.. i thought the stock block and crank were pretty solid as most failures were caused by other components

 

[ZmanM3]

Larry H is building my engine as well. I am also going the Thrump_rr Ron route and building a seperate engine to swap.

 

[94tbird]

thanks Ron!
but please bare me with the following two questions

Long block or Shortblock.. which way to go and why?

also, why the Teksid block and Cobra Crank.. i thought the stock block and crank were pretty solid as most failures were caused by other components

I went with the Teksid block for 2 reasons. Price and Track record. The Teksid is a proven block and although i think our Stock blocks are as strong, if not stronger than the teksid block, the teksid block was also half the price of a new Block and the weight difference was negligible to justify $500 for a teksid vs $1000 for a new 05 Block.

The same can be said about our cranks as well.

I went Longblock because i figured if im going to do something this insane and crazy (because honestly thats what it is) i might as well go all out and that included heads and cams and other misc things.

I was originally going to have Larry build the shortblock and have PMP do the rest, but it ended up making more sense to have Larry setup the entire thing, pretty much ready to be dropped in. This made things easier for Josh and Kevin at PMP as well. Plus with Larry's History of motor building, it was a no brainer.

This also ledto getting a beefier transmission as well (GT500's TR6060), a new cluck, and a mess of other things. so it never stops once you go down this road. currently im hovering around 23k when im done including motor, transmission and other misc things

 

[cekim]

$4-6k and $12-15k?
how much for a complete take-off GT500 engine?

You can call up FordSVTParts on the "other site" and order a new one, I think they are about $12K and come "dressed" (with all the trimin's)

Don't know how much to get a "take off" - I don't hear too many people "taking them off"... That is an even bigger project though and FWIW with 105F temps, I would not want to mix iron block with aluminum heads - one overheat and the head gasket goes poof (and the heads are now warped)...

Long vs short block is really a matter of how much work you want to or can do yourself and death by a thousand pin pricks getting all the little parts together if you are trying to keep the current engine running until the last minute...

 

[stkjock]

the 5.4 crate is $16K from ford....

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=9560

 

[94tbird]

the 5.4 crate is $16K from ford....

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=9560

it can be had for much less. usually 14k

http://www.karkraft.com/new_engines.htm

14495

 

[thump_rrr]

I believe it's something like another 2k for the PCM and harness.

 

[Darth Stang]

I think someone in the classifieds is selling a GT500 motor much cheaper than $14k....

-Darth

 

[Quiksilver]

Hmmm. Some interesting points. Why not get Larry to build you an engine after mine arrives? Should be shipped before the end of the year. Learn from my mistakes or problems I may have.

I still have all your beers and a bottle of vodka in my fridge so perhaps I can bribe you with your own booze to help me with the install?

Whadda ya say?

 

[G.T]

i've swapped motors and transmissions before so i'm not worried about the install as much about the actual build itself.

if only i could find a half decent machine shop around here

as for your install, just come over anytime man and we'll sort it out in my driveway
i have 2 mustangs laying outside.. one getting 14" brakes all around tonight or tomorrow

 

[Quiksilver]

Give you a shout tomorrow.

 

[US-1]

Something else you might want to consider if you're interested in a GT500 swap. At the PRI show FRPP had a new block they were showing off. The aluminum 5.4 GT block machined for a wet sump oiling system and conventional starter. M-6010-GTW. Availability should be 3-4 months.