Scca solo, NASA TT/ST/AI/AIX. What do you race and why?

Mike Rousch

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Started out Autocrossing, which is easily 90% of my driving experience. Started to get into it locally and nationally and had an absolute blast doing it, loved autocross when I was really into it. Then the ProSolo came to NJ a few years back and my region helped run it. I was the worker chief for the weekend and after that weekend I swore off autocrossing at any competitive level. I was argued with, belittled and even yelled at by some of the national level drivers. The ego's were completely unbearable and unreasonable. I do not ever want to be included into that group of people. So I started going to the race track with BMWCCA (in my Mustang) were you actually go more then 60 mph. Meet some great folks that I can and will now call life long friends. Once I turn a wheel in racing I sure that can change but in the end I have found it is all about the beer and laughing at the story telling at the end of the day. That comradery I have never had autocrossing.



10k, seriously? I have seen Spec E30 and Spec Miata's go for more money then that!! Hell I am in the beginnings of building a Spec E46 car which will definitely run me north of 20k to complete all said and done. I heard over the weekend a SpecE46 car is already for sale asking 28k!



All turbo motors go boom eventually!!

Yes sir, He bought the car about 2 years ago for i think around 8k with all the extra stuff with it. Since then he was won around 8-10 races ( i lost count now) and our regional championship last year.
 

SoundGuyDave

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I'll second the affirmative on getting a competitive CMC car with spares for under $10K. Realize what you're getting into, though! The whole "concept" behind CMC is to provide a series for nearly-stock Mustangs, Camaros and Firebirds where driver ability is the key to success. When it comes to mods, the mantra is "if the rules don't explicitly say you can, then you can't." Where one car has an allowance for a part that others don't, it's to promote parity of the different platforms in the series (FOX, SN95 and the 3rd and 4th gen F-bodies only!), and that makes racing VERY close, all other things considered. No ABS, 260HP, 305TQ caps, spec tires, VERY limited suspension and brake upgrades... Essentially, take a stock car, cage it, and go racing. The downside is that the newest chassis you can use is now of legal drinking age. You MUST run stock parts virtually all the way through, and those are starting to become scarce. If you're a tinkerer, this is not the series for you, but if you are a driver, you know you didn't get beat by the other guy's checkbook. There is value to that! Oh, and at least in our region (most, if not all, I think), you do standing starts on a hot track... Instant adrenaline as you watch the AIX, SU, and ST1 monsters roar away in front of you while you come to a COMPLETE stop in the middle of the track, in grid formation to await the green. Think about a dozen cars all doing drag launches while formed up in rows of two, and you'll get the idea. Big-time excitement.
 

Vorshlag-Fair

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I am going to second everything Mark (csamsh) wrote, as I have similar motivations, resevations and experiences. Having been doing autox, HPDE, TT for decades, a few W2W races just didn't add enough for me to want to take that plunge.

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AUTOCROSS

This sport gets little respect on the "driving pyramid", and its a shame. This is a VERY intense, competitive, driving-centric sport that emphasizes 10/10ths driving every millisecond. Sure, there are a lot of cheap-assed entrants, but there are some serious entrants as well. There is NO better place to learn car control (except as Mark suggested - maybe ice racing), and I often tell my HPDE students to GO AUTOCROSS FOR TWO SEASONS when they are just starting out, especially when they lack any car control and have bad skills learned (hands on wheel. shifting, braking, smoothness). Controlled aggression for 30-60 seconds with a big adrenaline rush. I've been doing this sport for 28 years, and while I have burned out on the SCCA and their classing restrictions/instability, I still enjoy doing it in "whatever I have" that I'm racing in other motorsports venues. Occasionally.

+ PROS - Low cost entry fees, low consumables (except tires), lots of classes for most cars, very safe (low risk of injury to driver or car), classes very different for street and race tires. You can learn a LOT autocrossing with respect to set-up, data logging, competitiveness that can help you elsewhere

- CONS - The SCCA is the biggest game in this business, and that's not a place for stable, rational, common sense modifications that racers usually want to do. Classing isn't exactly favorable to Muscle Cars like the S197. The "entry level" Street classes usually have a single car choice that dominates, which is usually different every two years, and usually a brand new car. Very little seat time relative to other events (3-6 minutes), lots of standing around in the sun (shagging cones) can lead to sunburns and skin cancer (ask me how I know)

I have done close to 400 autocrosses and will always consider myself an "autocrosser", first and foremost. Doesn't mean I'm any good at this sport, but I've learned the most about driving doing this than anything else, and wouldn't trade that experience for anything.

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HPDE/TRACK DAYS

A great place to learn how to do that "road course thing", with instructors, friendly clubs, and lots and lots of chances to race at world renowned tracks in almost anything. There are so many clubs/groups that run these at so many tracks you can usually find an HPDE every weekend of the year (that it doesn't snow in your area).

+ PROS - Easy access for almost any driver or car (exception: convertibles need a roll bar in almost all clubs), instruction is usually available (and worthwhile!), can be used for testing for competition. Safety requirements go little beyond a 3-point OEM belt and a Snell SA2000 helmet

- CONS - The lack of true competition can be a turn off for certain personality types. After a while you feel like you are "just driving around aimlessly". Can include some degree of risk, especially in powerful modern cars. Also a con: safety requirements go little beyond a 3-point OEM belt and a Snell SA2000 helmet. "Its up to you". Wildly varying degrees of skill amongst entrants, and you might run into this guy.

I prefer Time Trial nowadays but had a lot of fun doing HPDEs in college, when I could afford the entry fees and tires/brakes. We still run HPDEs with a few local groups 2-3 times a year and use it for showcasing parts/cars, testing new set-ups, and to help customers' with their chassis tuning.

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TIME TRIAL/TIME ATTACK

This is sort of a step between HPDE and Club level W2W road racing, and not a bad place to land (its where I spend most of my time driving). I did my first Time Trial back in 1989, before it was even called that, and really started it in earnest with NASA back in 2007. I wrote this "Intro To Time Trials" back in 2008 and it still is valid today. Since I've found I get bored easily in HPDE (no competition) and don't care for the added risks of some other driver running into me trying to pass in anger (W2W), this fits me and my "racing goals" really well. I win a lot more tires than my buddies who Club Race and spend less on body repairs and consumables, since I can put in 50 laps or one lap if that's all that's needed.

+ PROS - Fierce competition both regionally and nationally (NASA), also competitive classes in GTA and Redline + Optima has a TT element. Can win as much or more contingency as W2W club racing. Safety gear requirements are the same as HPDE (but MANY drivers will go way behind that), can still compete in your daily driver (at least in some "letter" classes) so no truck/trailer is needed. FAR less chance of car-to-car contact than Club Racing (although it happens very rarely).

- CONS - Safety gear requirements are as lax as HPDE and the risks are slightly higher, due to the "red mist" of competition and faster lap times seen in TT vs HPDE. Slow pokes still exist here who become "rolling road blocks", just like in HPDE (although not NEARLY as bad).

W2W CLUB RACING

As Mark said, I will also not be campaigning a W2W car anytime soon, for similar reasoning. My temperament isn't a good fit for incidental contact, the costs and risks are MUCH higher, and the build budgets are higher than some folks here are admitting to. A competitive AI car is a $80-120K car, and a competitive Spec Iron car is a $45K+ build, and CMC is a crashfest (at least in some regions) with still relatively slow-ish cars (12.5:1 pounds per hp, or therabouts?). I've done a few events in the crapcan league and didn't care for the added risks, wrecks, rules or politics.

I'm not going to "pro and con" this one, but we do support some customers who do this and they spend more than our HPDE and TT customers - all to win a little plastic trophy.

In the end I think there is a good fun to be had in all 4 of these motorsports venues, and I try to mix it up with a little bit of all 4 (with moderation use in autox and W2W, for me). Go check out a NASA event to see HPDE, TT and W2W racing all happening at once, and talk to racers and race directors before you dive in. Ask them about costs, risks, chances for contact, etc. Look at the rewards each can offer, in the forms of contingencies and "fun". Not everyone should do what anyone here says - go see for yourself and see what YOU enjoy.

But by all means... JUST KEEP RACING!
 
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ArizonaGT

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O and also, I agree with the sentiment that the adrenaline rush in W2W is unlike anything in HPDE. I experienced my first taste in a Lemons race last year, and even in those crap cans, it was a god damn blast.

LeMons is a really interesting experience. It also really helped me with traffic management in NASA since in LeMons, you are either passing or being passed constantly. The level of situational awareness needed to survive and be consistently quick is quite high.

We have a Crown Vic that we have run 3 events in California with so far. Two events at Sonoma and one at Thunderhill. We will probably punch out a few more events in that region in 2016. Maybe one more race in 2015.

We were going for an "A-10 Warthog" theme...
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claudermilk

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Crown Vic #281? I see what you did there...

Great post from Terry. Makes me think about what my ultimate goals are. I'm happy where I'm at right now (newbie--but not n00b--HPDE driver). However, I suspect I'll get a little bored after a while. I know I'm not so excited to make it to AX events right now. I am not reading Terry's post & thinking lettered-class TT might be my ultimate landing point. Off to read up on the NASA site.
 

2013MustangGT

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@ArizonaGT

I love the A-10. No better plane in the world for a grunt.

I started out doing HPDE at a local track and then joined NASA Racing. With NASA I am doing HPDE 3 with the goal of going into ST3. However, right now I am enjoying HPDE and the track time I can get. Last year I dumped a ton of money into the car and this year I am dumping 1/2 a ton of money into the car. All of my mods have been for safety of suspension. Since my mods were directed at safety I had Vorshlag turn my car from a street car to a full on race car. Even though I am still HPDE I decided to pick a class I want to race in and then build the car in that direction. All of that safety stuff is if something happens I am going home at the end of the day. You can make more money, however there's only one of you.
 
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white86hatch

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I attended the scca pro solo in mineral wells last weekend just to watch. And all I can say is eyes opened. The amount of prep and tire money it takes to be nationally competitive in a street prepared or above category is borderline insane. With my current car I don't think I'll be pushing things that far as the cost and logical side of it doesn't work for me. I have no problem cutting up and extensively modifying a $5-10,000 car to be what I want on track. Starting with a 2 year old $30,000 car and adding in another $15-20,000 isn't something my wife would let me get away with haha. Anyways. My autocross Fire has been refueled and I think I'll stay there with some hpde sprinkled in.
 

Vorshlag-Fair

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I am not (sic?) reading Terry's post & thinking lettered-class TT might be my ultimate landing point. Off to read up on the NASA site.

I think you meant that letter TT classes may be for you? If so, I agree - we've been working on a little TTC car that I have run a couple of times this year. We started with a $3000 car (1992 Corvette) and have been careful about spending money and "mod points" on upgrades. We stumbled upon a pretty good set-up, that won its first two races and reset the class track record by 7 seconds on its maiden race weekend.



We went ahead and spent a little bit more time and money on safety gear, but the money spent on mods was minimal: 245mm Hoosier R7s, 17x9.5" wheels, stock brakes and shocks, and we just spend money on a aftermarket front spring. The rest is all stock (or refreshed OEM) parts. And when it runs right, its been fun and fast-ish. The 24 year old motor didn't last long (it was smoking when I got it) but once that is freshened up it shouldn't need much else. You can read about this build, Project #DangerZone, here on the NASA forums.

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Look at the S197 Mustang - its in like 4 different base classes, and some of them are very favorable. The early S197s are in TTD and TTC, which should give them plenty of points to play with up to TTB. Letter classes are more restrictive and therefore more affordable, but picking the right base class/car and the right mods is critical. Which is half the fun - bench racing your way to either a proven package or an untested one. We thought we were clever being the first serious C4 to be built for TTC, only to have another racer secretly build a nearly identical C4 Corvette and debut it in TTC a week before we did. ;)

I attended the scca pro solo in mineral wells last weekend just to watch. And all I can say is eyes opened. The amount of prep and tire money it takes to be nationally competitive in a street prepared or above category is borderline insane. With my current car I don't think I'll be pushing things that far as the cost and logical side of it doesn't work for me. I have no problem cutting up and extensively modifying a $5-10,000 car to be what I want on track. Starting with a 2 year old $30,000 car and adding in another $15-20,000 isn't something my wife would let me get away with haha. Anyways. My autocross Fire has been refueled and I think I'll stay there with some hpde sprinkled in.
Yea, ProSolo is pretty cra-cray, and I wouldn't get too discouraged about the "National Prep Levels" and spending you saw there. Like I said before, the SCCA classing isn't exactly favorable to common sense mods or muscle cars in general, and my best advice is "run with the mods you like", or build around the rules for another series (Optima, Goodguys, NASA TTx) and then just run whatever SCCA class fits your build. Or build around the CAM class... which is pretty wide open, just know that it will be anything but stable. Its been around for 2 years and had a major reset after year 1.

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Our Mustang was CAM/MAM legal in 2014... but by 2015 they had yanked all the aero

Come by and chat if you have any other questions, Adam.
 

frink84

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SCCA SOLO. Its the only thing I've ran, but I have a group of friends that got me into it, mostly all in CAM-C in my local region. We aren't very serious and are in it for the driving experience. In fact, one of our internal rules is "don't protest, just go faster"
 

claudermilk

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I think you meant that letter TT classes may be for you? If so, I agree - we've been working on a little TTC car that I have run a couple of times this year. We started with a $3000 car (1992 Corvette) and have been careful about spending money and "mod points" on upgrades. We stumbled upon a pretty good set-up, that won its first two races and reset the class track record by 7 seconds on its maiden race weekend.

Yeah, I meant letter TT. However, it looks like that is not even an option for me. Checking the NASA 2015 rulebook, it shows 2013 Mustang GT as TT123, so I am guessing it gets thrown to the number classes right off the bat. Taking a quick swipe at their Excel calculator & the base numbers they have, I start in TT2? Not totally sure. I also checked the NASA SoCal schedule; it's pretty sparse & locations left are farther away than I can manage right now. In summary it doesn't appear NASA is a good fit for me at the moment, which is a shame.
 

white86hatch

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Yeah, I meant letter TT. However, it looks like that is not even an option for me. Checking the NASA 2015 rulebook, it shows 2013 Mustang GT as TT123, so I am guessing it gets thrown to the number classes right off the bat. Taking a quick swipe at their Excel calculator & the base numbers they have, I start in TT2? Not totally sure. I also checked the NASA SoCal schedule; it's pretty sparse & locations left are farther away than I can manage right now. In summary it doesn't appear NASA is a good fit for me at the moment, which is a shame.

Yep. You're correct. Coyote car= number class. If it's something you want to pursue then another car is in your future.
 

tigercrazy718

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Btw Terry runs in TT3, so I don't know what all you have done to your motor, but you should be starting out there. Unless you also lightened your car.
 

Vorshlag-Fair

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Btw Terry runs in TT3, so I don't know what all you have done to your motor, but you should be starting out there. Unless you also lightened your car.

I made the chart below last year to show the NASA TT base classing for ALL Mustangs ever made...

Mustang%20TT%20base%20classes%202014-L.jpg


Well most 5.0 powered S197s go straight to TT1/2/3, like the 13-14 GT and the Boss302. But the 2011-12 GT still goes to TTB for some reason, even though it is nearly identical to a 2013-14 GT (which makes +8 hp, on paper). So that makes FOUR different base classes for S197 Mustangs: TTD, TTC, TTB and TT1/2/3. If its a letter car it gets 19 mod points in class and at point 20 it bumps up a class, with the new power to weight ratio and 19 more points to play with. If you see a little star (asterisk) next to the base classing, this signifies a 7 point penalty (12 points to play with in class), and some base classings have up to two stars (-14 penalty to start with, so only 5 mod points to play with and stay in the same class).

If I wanted to build an S197 for TT-Letter I'd go straight to the TTC classed 2007-09 GT, which has a LOWER base class minimum weight than the TTD** 2005-06 (?!?) and gets a wider starting tire due to the C class (each class has a maximum "starting tire size", but that doesn't increase as you bump up from a lower class). This is one of those cases where it HELPS you to start with a higher base class, as you get more points to play with, a better power to weight ratio, and a larger base tire. The 2005-06 GT would be hard pressed to stay in TTD anyway, starting -14 points in the hole, and has a higher minimum weight yet a smaller starting tire size. Confused yet?!
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Seriously, if you get confused, shoot me a PM and I can help you class your car in NASA. Its.... more of an art, but once you know all the loopholes and mod points, its easy. Again, bench racing a "good TT build" in the letter classes is half the fun!

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I finally found this chart, which I knew I had made (above) last year showing the (somewhat confusing) power to weight ratio for the NASA CMC class (12.5 to 12.7, if you calculate it out). There are weight breaks for certain engines, too. The ratio for S197 cars in CMC (lower chart, 15.1-15.4) is basically "f*ck you, go run Spec Iron!".

nasa-cmc-chart-2015-L.jpg

Edit: the first CMC chart was old, and they kicked all S197s out by 2015, above

The CMC ratio of 12.7:1 is pretty weak, but I guess it keeps costs down I guess. Its a shame that it is almost no better than a stock non-M BMW. :/ I've copied the current class power to weight ratios for all of the numbered and letter TT classes plus AI and CMC, below.

Relative Ranking of NASA Classes
TT1 = 5.50:1
TT2 = 8.00:1
TT3 = 9.00:1 (stock aero ) or 9.4:1 (modified aero)
American Iron = 9.0:1 to 9.5:1
TTB 10.50:1
Spec Iron = 11.75:1
TTC 12.00:1
CMC = ~12.7:1
TTD 14.25:1
TTE 16.50:1
TTF 19.50:1

There are small modifiers to all of these, especially the numbered classes, but these numbers are pretty much the class goals. Not all letter class cars can hit the power to weight max (with the limitations on mods, you are lucky if you can!) but the number class cars can (its just gonna cost money!). I ran our TT3 Mustang at 8.8:1, even with the -0.4 "non-stock aero" hit (we picked up an even bigger ratio bonus for running over 3801 pounds, +0.6). We run our TTC Corvette at 11.3:1 with a bonus for only running a 245mm tire (+0.7). And when it comes to the modifiers, "minus equals plus and plus equals minus"... don't ask.

It seems confusing at first but its really simple, and actual measured power to weight ratios are the CORE for almost all NASA racing and TT classes. It works really well - better than "engine displacement to weight" ratios and "turbo modifiers" that the SCCA likes to use (which was dropped in the 1970s by almost every other racing organization on the planet).
 
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claudermilk

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OK, I input some screwy numbers. Still just spitballing (taking published spec weight + me, and what I recall some stock baseline chassis dyno results) and I'm firmly in TT3. I was reading back through Terry's posts & thinking "WTF? How do I come up with TT2 when the red Mustang is TT3? I screwed up somewhere". I I'd need to get an actual weighing & dyno to get real numbers, but seriously doubt it would change with a full interior & stock motor.

As I mentioned, there is a surprisingly small number of events available within a reasonable distance for me, so if I can make one eventually that's cool--and I know I have no hope of being anything other than field filler and a rolling chicane for monsters like Terry's. :van: Yep, I'd be one of the guys he's catching in 2-3 laps and having to deal with. :oops:
 

2008 V6

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OK, I input some screwy numbers. Still just spitballing (taking published spec weight + me, and what I recall some stock baseline chassis dyno results) and I'm firmly in TT3. I was reading back through Terry's posts & thinking "WTF? How do I come up with TT2 when the red Mustang is TT3? I screwed up somewhere". I I'd need to get an actual weighing & dyno to get real numbers, but seriously doubt it would change with a full interior & stock motor.

As I mentioned, there is a surprisingly small number of events available within a reasonable distance for me, so if I can make one eventually that's cool--and I know I have no hope of being anything other than field filler and a rolling chicane for monsters like Terry's. :van: Yep, I'd be one of the guys he's catching in 2-3 laps and having to deal with. :oops:

Published spec weight includes Driver & Fluids = Lowest scaled weight after a TT run.

2008 V6 =TTF** @3351LBS. If my wife wanted to continue, she would have fallen into TTC possibly Bumped to TTB depending upon Rule interpretation with planned modifications.

Current car 1993 / 94 GT which will fall into TT3 +/- 3000LBS with driver. Should be around $16,000 - $17,000 when finished including most consumables for first testing sessions. Finished is the problem because of current finances & time - might be next year at this rate.
 
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SoundGuyDave

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Terry, just to keep all the cards on the table, CMC is a fairly old series, and the entire concept behind it is close to showroom-stock racing. Take a stock car, slap a cage in it, do VERY mild prep for longevity, then go racing. The CMC directors have worked very hard to create a stable rule set that creates solid parity between the platforms, and as a result, the racing is VERY close, and honestly, quite affordable. There was a big hiccup along the way, when they split the field into CMC-1 and CMC-2. CMC-2 was granted a LARGE power increase (30HP, IIRC), along with 17" rims, larger brakes, and a few other things. CMC-1 was the "old" rule set, for those that didn't want to do a lot of EXPENSIVE upgrades. This was done SPECIFICALLY to include the "new" S197 chassis in virtually bone-stock form... The result? The S197 was a class-killer, and if you weren't racing one of those, you had no chance. Even stock, it's light-years better than the FOX/SN95 chassis it replaced, and with the very wide torque band and rev capability of the 3V, it trounced all over the F-bodies. So, they were faced with a choice. Allow the CMC-2 cars to start adding more and more aftermarket parts, relax the engine rules to allow for flatter torque curves and more power, which then over-stresses the brakes, which then... Talk about a rabbit hole! OR, they could add "success ballast" to the S197. Again, going by memory, in the last year the S197 was allowed to compete in CMC, they had to run over 100lbs heavier than everybody else, AND had to do it on 30mm less tire. Then it became a game to see if you could get the car far enough out front before the tires gave out that the field couldn't catch you by the end of the race... Not fun for anybody. The bottom line is that the S197 is just too much car to be put in CMC, so they made it ineligible when Spec Iron came out. The exiting CMC S197 driver had plenty of choices. Don't want to spend a ton? Go to SI. Want to stretch it? Go to AI. Got really deep pockets? Go to ST1/2/3. FWIW, the 5th gen Camaro was never even considered for inclusion into CMC, simply because of the power levels in stock trim. The 3V was right on the edge of fitting into the class, but the LSx? Not a chance in hell.
 

claudermilk

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Published spec weight includes Driver & Fluids = Lowest scaled weight after a TT run.

2008 V6 =TTF** @3351LBS. If my wife wanted to continue, she would have fallen into TTC possibly Bumped to TTB depending upon Rule interpretation with planned modifications.

Current car 1993 / 94 GT which will fall into TT3 +/- 3000LBS with driver. Should be around $16,000 - $17,000 when finished including most consumables for first testing sessions. Finished is the problem because of current finances & time - might be next year at this rate.

I went back to the Ford spec weight (3618) and added my ~200# to come up with a ballpark 3818. Then as I recall from reading past posts around the interwebz, stock Coyotes were dynoing at about 390 RWHP. That is solidly in TT3. I'd obviously have to get real numbers for my car to plug in before trying to run. I've got until next year to worry about it since they are only at Buttonwillow & Laguna Seca the rest of this year. :blah:

For now, I'm content running with Speed Ventures and working on the driver mod. I was quite happy moving into Purple (Intermediate, point-by passing) run group last time. Once I'm able to make it to Willow or Chuckwalla, I'll demote myself to Blue until I'm familiar with the tracks. It also limits the financial demands to what I feel like spending vs a money pit just to keep competitive.
 

SlowJim

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I had my 11 dynoed on the NASA-certified dyno at the HPDE I attended last weekend. Did 6 pulls, average was around 377whp with one freak run at 387. This is with intake, exhaust (no cats), and a tune.

I think on that same dyno a stock coyote would be closer to 360-370, on a good day.
 

2008 V6

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For now, I'm content running with Speed Ventures and working on the driver mod. I was quite happy moving into Purple (Intermediate, point-by passing) run group last time. Once I'm able to make it to Willow or Chuckwalla, I'll demote myself to Blue until I'm familiar with the tracks. It also limits the financial demands to what I feel like spending vs a money pit just to keep competitive.

I like Speed Ventures. Organized, well run events. I talked with Jarred several times (One of the main organizers) about investing in their Pony Car Challenge – He was quite interested. Aaron (Owner) wasn’t interested and the Pony Car events seam to have died. Their other series are doing quite well. I offered to invest some time and could guarantee multiple entrants but they were not even interested in compensating me entry fee for my legwork so I didn’t peruse it. Aaron wasn’t even interested in investing in plastic trophies for incentives Maybe $120.00 total at the end of the season. You would be surprised at what some people do for a piece of plastic to put on their mantle (Great incentive for some week end warriors). I just want to cut my weekend expenses down but wasn’t willing work multiple hours for free. I have to eat too and like competition. I was entered in TT9 (2014) figuring I could switch to Hoosier R compounds if needed. (My car fell easily into the TT10 category with our mods). Without Speed Ventures willing to invest, there was little turn out. You have to invest to progress – period.

Extreme Speed – Red Line Time Attack - Larger events, several sponsors, not as well organized because of the larger turnouts but some trophy prizes & occasional Media Coverage. The owner – Interesting character but can’t remember his name - is a business man and his only concern is the bottom line - not the racers. Your Mustang would place well within their rules. No Professional drivers allowed in the lower groups but it is not enforced.

These are the best (My opinion) Southern California groups to run with for cheaper track time. If you run with Extreme Speed, you don’t have to enter the Time Attack competition. Both groups run an event or two at Sears Point & Laguna Seca – Great tracks but a long haul. You will Love Button Willow. I’ve been there a few times but I stile haven’t figured it out. There are multiple configurations to run - Great track and not too far from me. I started doing L.E.S.A. and 3-Gun to get my competition fix. The only thing I can do for the rest of the year and say within my budget.
 

Sartol

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I started out in street drag racing and ended up in local autocross for the last 3 years. Did my first Scca Track night in America , never been on an open track before and signed up with the advanced group. I was able to run with / out drive a good % of them. Open track was a lot less hand movement and a little slower thinking needed to find the fast line. I add this up to the autocross exp. I enjoyed the hell out of a track day but I was able to reflect what skills autocross embodies. Still building the car and my driving but I think it comes down to what you are able to enjoy with your own personal budget. But with that said if I didn't have to think about money I would still autocross just to gain the driving skills it builds and seat time, along with open track fun. Also I would beat the hell out of a mustang going into drifting, but that's another story.
 

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