SN95 vs S197

[13726548]

Let's say we're comparing a 04 Mustang GT to a 09 GT. Not a SVT or a Saleen, just a plain GT.
What are the main differences between the two chassis? What would one have to do to the 04 to be on par with the 09? Are they pretty much equal as they are?

 

[08stang]

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[SoundGuyDave]

NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!

Exhibit A: My time trial car

Exhibit B: My CMC car

So, I have one of each. The S197 is a FAR superior chassis in terms of pure stiffness, compared to a gutted and caged SN95 with subframe connectors. Up front, the McStruts have better geometry than the modified Macs on the SN. Out back, the situation is even more extreme. The S197 has a fairly fluid 3-link plus Panhard, where the SN95 has the Quadrabind suspension, guaranteed to misbehave under ANY cornering condition. The CMC car has a fair bit of work done to the engine: Cobra intake, injectors, computer, roller rockers, "E" cam, shorty headers, and the "good" heads. It makes 260RWHP on the nose, with a crappy (rolling) hot idle. The 4.6L 3V makes almost exactly that number as well, bone stock. The S197 has a pretty good stock 5-speed (3650), where the SN95 has the self-grenading T5. Even with a late (03-04) suspension update (front arms, rear axle) the SN95 STILL has a substantially narrower track-width than the S197.

All in all, the S197 is the superior chassis. A few select mods here and there and the S197 will compare favorably with anything short of an SLA/TA setup on an SN95, with more (cheaper/easier) power, more torque, and FAR more potential.

 

[STEVE_POE]

What dave said.

don't even try to compare them. It takes a full mm grip box car or a griggs car to run with just a basic setup on a stock s197 platform on a race track.

Dave ,I didn't know you bought erics old cmc car........... I'm building a cmc2 05 gt right now as a rental for august mid-o and nationals.

 

[RedMosesSC]

Well put sound guy, [/Thread]

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Yeah, Joe Sullivan and I bought Anders' old car, and we're having a BUTTLOAD of fun running CMC and the enduros... If I had to do it all over again, though, I would have held out for an S197 chassis!

 

[Grabber]

New Edge GT Vs S197 GT, no contest.

Cobra/Roush, different story.

The 04 GT would need a decent amount of work just to compare to a stock S197. The S197 is overall better in every way compared to the 04 GT.

 

[Vapour Trails]

Cobra/Roush, different story.

Give it up already. Putting an IRS on the SN95 platform did not redeem it. The Cobra is overweight and not nearly as balanced.

 

[Grabber]

Give it up already. Putting an IRS on the SN95 platform did not redeem it.

Who said anything about the IRS?

Dude, I've owned 2 S197's, and 2 new Edge stangs.

I've driven boatloads of both. A Stock Cobra or even a Roush 99-04 handles better than a stock S197. They do have better suspension than your average 99-04 GT.

The IRS is more comfortable daily driving, as it doesn't feel like the rear end is going to rip off going over bumps. Doesn't mean it handles better.

As of right now, my 05 GT handles better than my Mach. At least it feels much tighter around corners. My Cobra, different story. As you put it, I had a "stock" Cobra, LOL.

 

[Blainestang]

Putting an IRS on the SN95 platform did not redeem it.

Not inherently, anyway... That said, Maximum Motorsports' racecar was 2-3 seconds faster around one track with the IRS (with MM mods, of course) than the same car with their full PHB/TA setup. Also, their driver said that the car was better with the IRS.

 

[SuperSonic05]

grabber, what the hell was stock on that cobra? the bolts holding the seats?

 

[Grabber]

grabber, what the hell was stock on that cobra? the bolts holding the sets?

Dude, it was stock, C'mon!

Fine...it had some fancy "bolts"

 

[Sam Strano]

Not inherently, anyway... That said, Maximum Motorsports' racecar was 2-3 seconds faster around one track with the IRS (with MM mods, of course) than the same car with their full PHB/TA setup. Also, their driver said that the car was better with the IRS.

That's not any indication of live axle vs. IRS, just that particular live axle setup vs that particular IRS setup.

I won't use TA's for older cars I think the Steeda 5 link is a much better arrangement if for no other reason than it's a lot lighter and less bulky... but there are other reasons.

 

[Chris B.]

The IRS is more comfortable daily driving, as it doesn't feel like the rear end is going to rip off going over bumps. Doesn't mean it handles better.

An S197 with good rear shocks feels like a completely different car when going over bumps. Much better than the IRS '99-'04 Mustangs I've driven.

 

[Blainestang]

That's not any indication of live axle vs. IRS, just that particular live axle setup vs that particular IRS setup.

I won't use TA's for older cars I think the Steeda 5 link is a much better arrangement if for no other reason than it's a lot lighter and less bulky... but there are other reasons.

Yeah, I'm not saying that MM's experience indicated that the Mustang's IRS was an objectively great setup or anything. You're right that it is merely a comparison of THEIR T/A setup vs. THEIR IRS setup. That being said, my point was that the MM race car's solid axle setup was not just a stock setup or something, it was a quite effective SA setup, so for the IRS to be faster and also better-driving according to their driver, that's saying something... That a properly built IRS setup can be an effective open-track setup on Fox/SN95 cars, even compared to a serious TA setup.

Was the IRS setup a great setup overall? No, but it's not an inherently terrible setup, as is often implied, when compared to other Mustang suspension options.

 

[Grabber]

An S197 with good rear shocks feels like a completely different car when going over bumps. Much better than the IRS '99-'04 Mustangs I've driven.

I've been in a lowered S197 with Eibach Struts/Shocks. Was smooth unless we hit bumps. Still felt the same.

Just my thoughts on it.

 

[Random Asshole]

Are you talking bang for the buck between the two cars? Sure. That's why Dave bought an old CMC car to beat on. Other than that, it's not worth comparing.

oh, and lulz @ quadrabind.

 

[Grabber]

Are you talking bang for the buck between the two cars? Sure. That's why Dave bought an old CMC car to beat on. Other than that, it's not worth comparing.

well, bang for buck between a Cobra and an 05-09 GT? No comparison really in terms of performance.

So, since I plan on buying springs/shocks/struts, what are GOOD shocks/struts for daily driving not auto-x /road racing?

 

[Random Asshole]

If it's not for performance driving, then why spend the money? Since you are doing it anyways, koni str.t would be fitting (and most likely in stock)

 

[13726548]

I guess the S197 is a clear winner. Thank you all for your input.