spark plug socket issues 2006 Mustang GT

EGAZ

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I am attempting to R&R spark plugs again. My first time was 60k miles ago with no issues. Now the drivers side front plug isn't cooperating with the socket. The socket keeps slipping off the plug. I have used different length drivers including my 16" long torque wrench with no success. It feels as though, no matter how much down force I use, the socket still slips off and does not turn the plug at all. It's as if the socket does not have enough bite on the spark plug to effectively turn it. I know I have the right sized driver for the plugs however this issue still remains.

I have heated the engine to operating temp, sprayed PB Blaster into the well - no success. I have removed the coil overs and sprayed the plug well after the engine heated up - no success.

With the above stated, is it safe to use an impact driver on the spark plug to free it up? Will an impact driver damage the head? I know that the plug may separate which is ok because I can use the plug extractor. Alternatively, what should I expect to pay for spark plug R&R knowing that the repair shop will sell me new plugs at their retail price?

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 

msvela448

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I have only used an impact gun... Never had a single issue... Never had any plugs break. Changed several sets that way over the years.

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skwerl

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14mm deep socket, 3/8" drive. Make sure it's a 6 point, not a 12 point. I have a very short piece of vacuum hose stuffed in mine to hold the plug in the socket. It helps when removing them as well as installing them.

The other thing is that dirt can settle down in the spark plug holes. Use an air nozzle on your air compressor line and blow out the spark plug holes before removing the plugs. Even a little dirt can keep the socket from seating fully on the plug.
 

DieHarder

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Can you see the plug? Is it rounded off in any way? Are you sure it's not broken? From your description kinda sounds like the upper portion of the plug (assuming stock two-piece) is broken and spinning. If you're not 100% sure the socket is good I'd go get another one (deep well) and try again.
 

EGAZ

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14mm deep socket, 3/8" drive. Make sure it's a 6 point, not a 12 point. I have a very short piece of vacuum hose stuffed in mine to hold the plug in the socket. It helps when removing them as well as installing them.

The other thing is that dirt can settle down in the spark plug holes. Use an air nozzle on your air compressor line and blow out the spark plug holes before removing the plugs. Even a little dirt can keep the socket from seating fully on the plug.

Thanks for your reply. I use the deep 6 pt socket. I have even tried two. I'm going to use some carb cleaner to get around the plug. I used an air nozzle but still see a little grime in there.

Can you see the plug? Is it rounded off in any way? Are you sure it's not broken? From your description kinda sounds like the upper portion of the plug (assuming stock two-piece) is broken and spinning. If you're not 100% sure the socket is good I'd go get another one (deep well) and try again.

Thanks for your reply. I can see the plug. It is not broken nor spinning. I have used two separate sockets with same challenge. I will spray some gumout carb cleaner in there because I see a little grime.

I have only used an impact gun... Never had a single issue... Never had any plugs break. Changed several sets that way over the years.

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Thanks for the reply. You have used an impact gun on S197 GT? I'm just confirming, not doubting. That sounds like a plan then. I will spray some gumout cleaner in the hole to ensure any grime is removed. The heat, PB blaster and repeat. Thanks again
 
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cavero

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One thing you might be able to try is grinding the end of the socket flat. The hole is usually chamfered to make it easier to get the socket on the bolt, but if you have a low profile fastener, you sacrifice some bite. I've had to do this on fork tube caps on my bike.
IMAG0713.jpg
 

DieHarder

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I've had to use an air impact once (on a one piece plug) which came out without issue. You're description of the issue is somewhat baffling; once you get the plug out suggest posting a pic and explanation when you determine what the problem is.
 

msvela448

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Thanks for the reply. You have used an impact gun on S197 GT? I'm just confirming, not doubting. That sounds like a plan then. I will spray some gumout cleaner in the hole to ensure any grime is removed. The heat, PB blaster and repeat. Thanks again

Yes... And on an Explorer.... And on an F150.

Here's a video of a mechanic using an impact gun on all 8 plugs:



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Juice

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Can you see the plug? Is it rounded off in any way? Are you sure it's not broken? From your description kinda sounds like the upper portion of the plug (assuming stock two-piece) is broken and spinning. If you're not 100% sure the socket is good I'd go get another one (deep well) and try again.
This
 

Stoenr

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I've had to use an air impact once (on a one piece plug) which came out without issue. You're description of the issue is somewhat baffling; once you get the plug out suggest posting a pic and explanation when you determine what the problem is.

Yes, dont leave us hanging in the end, lol.
 

EGAZ

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One thing you might be able to try is grinding the end of the socket flat. The hole is usually chamfered to make it easier to get the socket on the bolt, but if you have a low profile fastener, you sacrifice some bite. I've had to do this on fork tube caps on my bike.
View attachment 80689
Grinding the end of the socket flat is what I was thinking as well. I'll give it a try. I have some pretty sound ideas on how to get the plugs out and this will fit in with all of the others. Thanks

Yes, dont leave us hanging in the end, lol.
It is somewhat baffling to me as well. I will post up a couple of photos to show the sequence of what I am doing. I have several ideas from this thread that I will apply in hopes of a successful spark plug removal effort.

Yes, dont leave us hanging in the end, lol.
Pretty baffling. I am going to warm up the engine. Spray gumout in the plug recess and use compressed air to blow out any left over junk. Then I will, once again, warm up the engine, remove the coil packs and spray PB Blaster into the plug recess and let that sit overnight. In the morning I will again warm up the engine, remove the coil packs and try to remove the plugs with the engine hot in hopes the heads will expand a little bit. I will also grind flat the end of my socket so it fits tighter. I will then use an impact wrench to hit the plugs. If these don't work I don't I don't know what will.
 
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EGAZ

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Big thanks to stoener, msvela448, juice, die harder, cavero and skwerl for your comments and ideas. I have plenty of ammunition to take on this challenge. I will post up pics of the process and progress, or lack there of. Cheers! Check out my automotive focused YouTube channel. www.youtube.com/ericsgarageaz
 

Ktm85sx

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While the motor is HOT (operating temp) get your deep well socket, put ONLY the socket on the spark plug and then get your extension and put it on your socket. This will insure that the socket is fully seated. Your extension will only be in the drive about 1/4 of an inch but you can still get it to bite.
If your socket is bottoming out on the electrode then you need a longer deep socket. The engine being warm will help the spark plug come loose due to the head expanding from the heat.
 

MasterofDisaster

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I have not had the this problem, but I am aware of TSB 08-7-6 which says
DO NOT REMOVE PLUGS WHEN THE ENGINE IS WARM OR HOT. THE ENGINE MUST BE AT ROOM TEMPERATURE WHEN PERFORMING SPARK PLUG SERVICE. REMOVING THE SPARK PLUGS FROM A WARM/HOT ENGINE INCREASES THE CHANCE THE THREADS COULD BE DAMAGED.​

I think other posters are right about blowing out the well with compressed air. Maybe get a small brush in there, brush a little, and blow it out again. There really should be anything in there other than a trace of dust.

I did not have the two piece plug, but I wanted no part of a broken plug. I poured a maybe 30ml of carburetor cleaner in the spark plug wells and let it sit overnight. Blew it out with compressed air the morning. Plugs came out fairly easy.

I also think Ktm is right that maybe your extension is contacting the plug and pushing the socket off the plug. That would be a logical inference.
 

gbstang

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Never use an impact gun to remove anything from aluminum, using an impact is shade tree mechanic $hit.... The impact has too much torque and although they may have been lucky removing a plug or two, sooner or later you will strip all the threads from the head using that impact and then you will be screwed.. You will then have to install Heli coils--which suck!

Use your hands with a ratchet, extension and socket only..
 

Laga

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Never use an impact gun to remove anything from aluminum, using an impact is shade tree mechanic $hit.... The impact has too much torque and although they may have been lucky removing a plug or two, sooner or later you will strip all the threads from the head using that impact and then you will be screwed.. You will then have to install Heli coils--which suck!

Use your hands with a ratchet, extension and socket only..
While I agree 100% with what you say, I have seen literally hundreds of posts, on various sites over the years, of people using air tools to remove the plugs on the Ford aluminum heads. I would never do it.
 

Jack F

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Never use an impact gun to remove anything from aluminum, using an impact is shade tree mechanic $hit...

Warm the engine up to operating temp and use an impact. It's the quickest way. Some plugs will inevitably break, so have the VERY effective and easy to use extractor kit on hand (NAPA 77-4021). I've been using an impact on 3V heads for years, and I'm no shade tree.
 

Jack F

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It's as if the socket does not have enough bite on the spark plug to effectively turn it. I know I have the right sized driver for the plugs however this issue still remains.

Sounds like the plug is broken off.
 

msvela448

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Never use an impact gun to remove anything from aluminum, using an impact is shade tree mechanic $hit.... The impact has too much torque and although they may have been lucky removing a plug or two, sooner or later you will strip all the threads from the head using that impact and then you will be screwed.. You will then have to install Heli coils--which suck!

Use your hands with a ratchet, extension and socket only..
Definitely not shade tree here either. I've been working on cars and engines for 40 years.

I've removed many sets of 2-piece Ford spark plugs from "old - style" aluminum heads using an impact gun. Zero issues.... Ever! The shock of the impact seems to break the carbon build up and the plugs come right out. Whereas applying more and more torque by hand seems to snap them off almost every time.

Every thread about broken spark plugs in a 3v 4.6L (or 5.4L) Ford involves trying to ease them out by hand. However, you cannot find a thread, video, post, about one breaking when using an impact gun to remove it. C'mon internet... Prove me wrong!

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DieHarder

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Warm the engine up to operating temp and use an impact. It's the quickest way. Some plugs will inevitably break, so have the VERY effective and easy to use extractor kit on hand (NAPA 77-4021). I've been using an impact on 3V heads for years, and I'm no shade tree.

Understand the reluctance by some....however, results indicate a hot engine and using an impacts' rocking/ shock effect when done properly actually helps break them loose and prevents damage/broken plugs. Even in my own case after changing to a one-piece I had a plug freeze and the only way I got it out (without damage) was by using an air impact. It was difficult at first but came out in the end without damage. To lessen the chance of issues in the future I remove, clean, and check gap or replace plugs along with a little anti-seize every season. No problems since and yes I still use an impact when needed.

Here's a couple of examples: (and these are the more difficult 5.4v's).


 

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