Tesla Sales Banned in Texas... Colorado, NC and Virgina following...

blk12gt

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Good points. I think "necessity is the mother of invention" will prevail w electric cars, or some form there of. Global warming and all that bullshit aside, something needs to be figured out for long term. Dead dinosaurs isn't in endless supply.

X2, I'd rather smell like spent hydrocarbons than drive a vagina on wheels though lol.

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GoneFord

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Good points. I think "necessity is the mother of invention" will prevail w electric cars, or some form there of. Global warming and all that bullshit aside, something needs to be figured out for long term. Dead dinosaurs isn't in endless supply.

They aren't necessary, but they might be if there was such a thing as fossil fuels. There isn't. Petroleum based fuel products are abiogenic.

It's kind of like believing in evolution or creation. Both require the same level of faith because neither can be proved. But when it comes to petroleum - just how many dinosaurs do the idiots that proffered that theory think there were? And why are oil fields once thought depleted when revisited found refilled (refilling - not returned to their previous level - that takes a while depending on myriad conditions)? Why do we find oil in places fossil fuel theory adherents never thought they'd find it? Because they were looking for dinosaurs not geological structures that produce petroleum products. Why are we finding hydrocarbons like those in the Green River shale "intimately bound up" with the rock - how'd the dinosaurs get in there and if they got in there and their carbon deposits are there why weren't their bone "intimately bound" as well? "Fossil fuels" is silly, but unfortunately, like global warming that's what they're selling...

One of the reasons Russia has discovered such massive oil reserves in their country is because they signed up to the abiogenic theory in the '50s and didn't constrain their search criteria to dinosaurs...

We're not running out of petroleum...

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/american-oil-find-holds-oil-opec/story?id=17536852

"Drillers in Utah and Colorado are poking into a massive shale deposit trying to find a way to unlock oil reserves that are so vast they would swamp OPEC."

""In the past 100 years — in all of human history -- we have consumed 1 trillion barrels of oil. There are several times that much here," said Roger Day, vice president for operations for American Shale Oil."

That doesn't take into account the outer continental shelf or many other locally available petroleum sources we have relatively easy access to. We have centruries of petroleum available to us. We don't "need" electric cars.
 

CPRsm

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We have centruries of petroleum available to us. We don't "need" electric cars.
Yet
Beside the actual origin of petrol, I think it's foolish to think even if not endless, that it's too large to run out. Or that it's replenished at the same rate or faster than we use it. 7 times the amount of oil than we've used, left on earth to their estimation. As population grows, so will the consumption. It's possible humans could be here another 500 years if we don't fuck it up. What then? That being said supply is not the only reason. Idk if I buy into the whole green house effect. But I can tell you from my experience, Los Angeles has flat fucking disgusting air. And twernt caused by electric cars lol. Production of electricity may not be the cleanest at the moment. But in the long run producing cleanly you would think is going to be easier than burning clean.
 

s8v4o

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But you can stop and get a fill up of good ol petrol any where, I would love to see an electric car stuck on the highway outside of a major metropolitan area... lol



Well if your going to stoop to that level pray tell how much toxic waste is produced as a byproduct creating batteries that don't have the life expectancy of a combustion engine? Not to mention what happens to batteries when they won't hold a charge. You can't compare the two by picking and choosing the battles. Coal is clean now (relatively speaking), just like electric cars will be, the technology just isn't here yet.



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I frequently drive to Houston from Baton Rouge. There are more than a dozen electric stations along the way. They are popping up everywhere. There's about 8000 of them in the US according to the energy.gov website. There are more electric stations in my area than E85.

It wasn't too long ago people were happy to get 100,000 miles on a vehicle. Companies like Toyota offer 150,000 mile warranty on their batteries. Just like the battery in your car right now manufacturers want them back as cores to rebuild. Let me know when you see hybrid batteries in landfills, you won't. If you do I'd gladly relieve them of it. They are simply worth too much money.

Meanwhile are we going to boycott laptops, cell phones, and tablets because they use lithium ion batteries? Nobody is complaining about those types of devices. The major problem with them is because they are small LOTS of people throw those away instead of recycling them, unlike that of the larger ones that go into vehicles.

No matter how you slice it electric cars are coming. They will be more and more prevalent as the years go by. Personally I like the idea of filling up at home. With electricity here only $0.10 / kWh I can fill up for very little. So a 50kWh battery would cost me $5.00 to charge.

Is an electric car for everybody, hell no. Would I like to have one for commuting and running errands, hell yes. Am I ready to give up my mustang/S and f250 right now, NO. Meanwhile an electric vehicle would certainly make a nice addition to my lineup.


EDIT - Oh yeah,

"
Environmental concerns and recycling

Since Li-ion batteries contain no toxic metals (unlike other types of batteries which may contain lead or cadmium)[41] they are generally categorized as non-hazardous waste. Li-ion battery elements including iron, copper, nickel and cobalt are considered safe for incinerators and landfills. These metals can be recycled, but mining generally remains cheaper than recycling.[145] At present, not much is invested into recycling Li-ion batteries due to costs, complexities and low yield. The most expensive metal involved in the construction of the cell is cobalt. Lithium iron phosphate is cheaper but has other drawbacks. Lithium is less expensive than other metals used. The manufacturing processes of nickel and cobalt for the positive electrode and also the solvent, present potential environmental and health hazards.[146][147]"
 
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blk12gt

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I frequently drive to Houston from Baton Rouge. There are more than a dozen electric stations along the way. They are popping up everywhere. There's about 8000 of them in the US according to the energy.gov website. There are more electric stations in my area than E85.

It wasn't too long ago people were happy to get 100,000 miles on a vehicle. Companies like Toyota offer 150,000 mile warranty on their batteries. Just like the battery in your car right now manufacturers want them back as cores to rebuild. Let me know when you see hybrid batteries in landfills, you won't. If you do I'd gladly relieve them of it. They are simply worth too much money.

Meanwhile are we going to boycott laptops, cell phones, and tablets because they use lithium ion batteries? Nobody is complaining about those types of devices. The major problem with them is because they are small LOTS of people throw those away instead of recycling them, unlike that of the larger ones that go into vehicles.

No matter how you slice it electric cars are coming. They will be more and more prevalent as the years go by. Personally I like the idea of filling up at home. With electricity here only $0.10 / kWh I can fill up for very little. So a 50kWh battery would cost me $5.00 to charge.

Is an electric car for everybody, hell no. Would I like to have one for commuting and running errands, hell yes. Am I ready to give up my mustang/S and f250 right now, NO. Meanwhile an electric vehicle would certainly make a nice addition to my lineup.


EDIT - Oh yeah,

"
Environmental concerns and recycling

Since Li-ion batteries contain no toxic metals (unlike other types of batteries which may contain lead or cadmium)[41] they are generally categorized as non-hazardous waste. Li-ion battery elements including iron, copper, nickel and cobalt are considered safe for incinerators and landfills. These metals can be recycled, but mining generally remains cheaper than recycling.[145] At present, not much is invested into recycling Li-ion batteries due to costs, complexities and low yield. The most expensive metal involved in the construction of the cell is cobalt. Lithium iron phosphate is cheaper but has other drawbacks. Lithium is less expensive than other metals used. The manufacturing processes of nickel and cobalt for the positive electrode and also the solvent, present potential environmental and health hazards.[146][147]"

You missed my main environmental complaint (kinda, just a small blurb at the end) which is the creation of those batteries, not the batteries themselves.

As far as those charging stations, when the tax payers get their money back I'll take that as a valid argument, most of those were built with tax payer funds...

Sent from my phone, spelling mistakes brought to you courtesy of tapatalk.
 

tjm73

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They aren't necessary, but they might be if there was such a thing as fossil fuels. There isn't. Petroleum based fuel products are abiogenic.

It's kind of like believing in evolution or creation. Both require the same level of faith because neither can be proved. But when it comes to petroleum - just how many dinosaurs do the idiots that proffered that theory think there were? And why are oil fields once thought depleted when revisited found refilled (refilling - not returned to their previous level - that takes a while depending on myriad conditions)? Why do we find oil in places fossil fuel theory adherents never thought they'd find it? Because they were looking for dinosaurs not geological structures that produce petroleum products. Why are we finding hydrocarbons like those in the Green River shale "intimately bound up" with the rock - how'd the dinosaurs get in there and if they got in there and their carbon deposits are there why weren't their bone "intimately bound" as well? "Fossil fuels" is silly, but unfortunately, like global warming that's what they're selling...

One of the reasons Russia has discovered such massive oil reserves in their country is because they signed up to the abiogenic theory in the '50s and didn't constrain their search criteria to dinosaurs...

We're not running out of petroleum...

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/american-oil-find-holds-oil-opec/story?id=17536852

"Drillers in Utah and Colorado are poking into a massive shale deposit trying to find a way to unlock oil reserves that are so vast they would swamp OPEC."

""In the past 100 years — in all of human history -- we have consumed 1 trillion barrels of oil. There are several times that much here," said Roger Day, vice president for operations for American Shale Oil."

That doesn't take into account the outer continental shelf or many other locally available petroleum sources we have relatively easy access to. We have centruries of petroleum available to us. We don't "need" electric cars.

Hmmm.... I came up with my own theory that oil was a product the planet creates through its natural life cycle. Seems kinda similar in some ways. I had not heard of this theory. Thanks for the education.
 

blk12gt

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They aren't necessary, but they might be if there was such a thing as fossil fuels. There isn't. Petroleum based fuel products are abiogenic.

It's kind of like believing in evolution or creation. Both require the same level of faith because neither can be proved. But when it comes to petroleum - just how many dinosaurs do the idiots that proffered that theory think there were? And why are oil fields once thought depleted when revisited found refilled (refilling - not returned to their previous level - that takes a while depending on myriad conditions)? Why do we find oil in places fossil fuel theory adherents never thought they'd find it? Because they were looking for dinosaurs not geological structures that produce petroleum products. Why are we finding hydrocarbons like those in the Green River shale "intimately bound up" with the rock - how'd the dinosaurs get in there and if they got in there and their carbon deposits are there why weren't their bone "intimately bound" as well? "Fossil fuels" is silly, but unfortunately, like global warming that's what they're selling...

One of the reasons Russia has discovered such massive oil reserves in their country is because they signed up to the abiogenic theory in the '50s and didn't constrain their search criteria to dinosaurs...

We're not running out of petroleum...

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/american-oil-find-holds-oil-opec/story?id=17536852

"Drillers in Utah and Colorado are poking into a massive shale deposit trying to find a way to unlock oil reserves that are so vast they would swamp OPEC."

""In the past 100 years — in all of human history -- we have consumed 1 trillion barrels of oil. There are several times that much here," said Roger Day, vice president for operations for American Shale Oil."

That doesn't take into account the outer continental shelf or many other locally available petroleum sources we have relatively easy access to. We have centruries of petroleum available to us. We don't "need" electric cars.

Always a long read from the long winded GoneFord but as usual enlightening.

Sent from my phone, spelling mistakes brought to you courtesy of tapatalk.
 

GoneFord

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Yet
Beside the actual origin of petrol, I think it's foolish to think even if not endless, that it's too large to run out. Or that it's replenished at the same rate or faster than we use it. 7 times the amount of oil than we've used, left on earth to their estimation. As population grows, so will the consumption. It's possible humans could be here another 500 years if we don't fuck it up. What then? That being said supply is not the only reason. Idk if I buy into the whole green house effect. But I can tell you from my experience, Los Angeles has flat fucking disgusting air. And twernt caused by electric cars lol. Production of electricity may not be the cleanest at the moment. But in the long run producing cleanly you would think is going to be easier than burning clean.

I'd never claim it's endless, as I said we have centuries (maybe longer). However, there's no way to accurately estimate how long what we have will last as we continue to find more and develop more effective and efficient methods of extracting it. Besides, I'd hope we'd be on energy cells or hydrogen or some other more base elemental energy form before this century is out. But just for clarification, the article quotes the VP of AMSO saying there's several times the oil used so far located in just their recent find (unless you were using a different source).

In addition, we don't consume at the same rater - never have. And I don't think we ever will. In fact we are using less now than we did in the past.

The greenhouse gas theories are just another religion based mostly on pride. We like to think we can bring about global catastrophe but we aren't all that. Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of rational resource utilization and responsible consumption. And we can definitely impact local pollution levels. I lived in Cucamonga, California when I was a kid (that was a long time ago) and we'd be rushed into the house when helicopters would overfly the suburbs telling everyone to go inside because the air was dangerous to breath. I remember how when playing hard you'd be hard pressed to catch your breath - the air was terrible. But it's not anymore. Between the thermal conditions and living in a valley surrounded by mountains the pollution had nowhere to go. But on a global scale - nope. And we certainly aren't going to change it while the most populous countries are beginning to use more and more petroleum products.

I hold no animosity toward electric cars - I reserve my disdain for the electric car drivers mostly. There's just something about them... But seriously, I'll move to electric when it makes sense for me.
 
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GoneFord

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Always a long read from the long winded GoneFord but as usual enlightening.

Sent from my phone, spelling mistakes brought to you courtesy of tapatalk.

And I'll have you know, no uncessary "wind" was wasted in typing up that comment... just saying. But thanks for the backhanded comment <G>.
 

blk12gt

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And I'll have you know, no uncessary "wind" was wasted in typing up that comment... just saying. But thanks for the backhanded comment .

Speaking of wind lets move this to how inefficient wind power is and how many birds the towers are killing... Can never make a tree hugger happy...

I could respect a guy with a gun rack on the back lol

y2edavyb.jpg


And dare I say it but one powered by an ls

5ujuje7y.jpg



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TGR96

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I have no problem with electric cars in general. That's the way of the future. I'm sure that someday, we will all have one.

My problem is the lack of noise. My neighbors have a hybrid Toyota Highlander, and when it pulls up to their driveway, there is no noise except the faint sound of the tires rolling on asphalt. Like Jeremy Clarkson said in the episode of Top Gear when he was driving a Prius, it's kinda dangerous. And not to mention, freaky.

Plus, half of the enjoyment that I get from driving my car is the noise that it makes!
 

Captainstr8edge

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wasn't there a movie with Kevin James where his job was trying to make a sound system for an electric car that sounded like a real engine? It wasn't a main part of the movie or anything I just remember that part. I forget what it was...
 

Timmbo

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IMO, electric cars and global warming are nothing but political platforms. As much as I would LOVE to have a small cheap electric car to just go back in forth to work it will NEVER happen. Electric cars in mass will NEVER happen for several reasons. Oil companies will fight it to the death. Automobile manufacturers will fight it too. The automobile dealerships (Ford, Dodge, GM) would most likely collapse because what keeps the doors open is "service". When you've got no more belts or fluids to change, no more engines or transmissions to maintain or overhaul your dealership is in trouble.

Sorry, but IMO....electric ain't never going to happen in mass. Period. Politicians, lobbyists, and the big auto industry wont let it.
 

garner

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Yeaaaa, but you gotta have a lot of money to afford a Tesla. And usually those people, while possibly insufferably pretentious, are usually sane and welcoming.

Since when? $60k starting price(after incentives) isn't that expensive compared to the norm. I've seen a couple teslas here parked in front of $200-250k houses(average house is $150kish)
 
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