The $33,590 2014 Mustang GT

LarryJM

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In looking at all three, maybe it's the wheel base.
 

Pentalab

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There has to be more to this. The 13,000 mile 2012 GT-500 handled like crap. Even Road and Track said that. The 2020 Track Pak Mustang handed like a slot car. Mine is in the middle. All were around the same power. Brakes were mushy on the GT-500, I think very nice on mine and very grabby on the 2020.

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What is the weight of all 3 of em ?? Also weight distribution front to back. AFAIK, the GT-500 went to an aluminum block in 2011.
 

LarryJM

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What is the weight of all 3 of em ?? Also weight distribution front to back. AFAIK, the GT-500 went to an aluminum block in 2011.
Well I know my 2014 by the local truck stop scales is 3460 lbs without me but 1/4 tank of gas. To get it down to that, I have run flat tires and nothing in the trunk. The 2012 GT500 is posted at 3950 lbs and the 2020 people say 3850 lbs. All seem to accelerate about the same IE between 12:20 to 12:90. None are mid 11 second cars.
 

Pentalab

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Well I know my 2014 by the local truck stop scales is 3460 lbs without me but 1/4 tank of gas. To get it down to that, I have run flat tires and nothing in the trunk. The 2012 GT500 is posted at 3950 lbs and the 2020 people say 3850 lbs. All seem to accelerate about the same IE between 12:20 to 12:90. None are mid 11 second cars.
3950 lbs is a bunch.... 490 lbs more than your 2014. Toss in 150-200 lbs for the driver, and now the GT-500 sits at 4100 - 4150 lbs. That would be enough to screw up the handling.
 

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PS4S tires are remarkable, and FWIW tire grip is not as sensitive to tire width as you may think. I have it on good authority that tire grip is roughly proportional to width^0.15. Meaning that (all else constant) a 245-wide tire can be expected to develop within about 5% of the grip of a 305. Wider tires are more durable, however, as all that cornering energy gets distributed over more rubber.

Norm

Meanwhile Terry Fair claims cars that are heavier, require wider tires. "Put a 225mm on a Mazda Miata, and you require a 360mm on a mustang". Tire width was proportional to weight. Wider tires have similar contact patch, but in the transverse plane. Flip side is the weight is the same on each corner, it's just the way the weight is distributed, plus the lateral loads are in the transverse plane. From my very limited experience, 285's handle better vs 255's.
 

LarryJM

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So I guess 255 on a 3500 lbs car is different then a 255 on a 4000 lbs car. Not sure what a mm per lbs would be. That 4000 lbs GT-500 had 255 fronts and so does my 3500 lbs Coyote thus the difference?
 

Norm Peterson

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Meanwhile Terry Fair claims cars that are heavier, require wider tires. "Put a 225mm on a Mazda Miata, and you require a 360mm on a mustang". Tire width was proportional to weight. Wider tires have similar contact patch, but in the transverse plane. Flip side is the weight is the same on each corner, it's just the way the weight is distributed, plus the lateral loads are in the transverse plane. From my very limited experience, 285's handle better vs 255's.
Handling and max lateral grip are related, but not necessarily in a linear sense (nothing about tires is truly linear). 285s on appropriately wide wheels will remain closer to linear behavior longer, but max-lat lies beyond that. You probably don't even start to sense slip angles until you're up in your tires' transitional behavior range.


My information came from a senior-level OEM engineer who would know such things. Though I suppose there could be some wiggle room on the exponent.


Norm
 

LarryJM

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What I didn't like about CarMax is they really do not inspect there cars much except for tires. Then new tires on a low millage car is always suspect. I bet the brake fluid has never been changed. The 2013/14s are much more desirable. Another 100hp and much bigger brakes. The salesman really did not understand why I would not think about a 10 year old car for $47,550 that smelled like it was smoked in. Although it is true, I just wanted a test drive. I have one more test drive to do in a 2021. It must be a track pack car with a track pak apps cluster. Is the 330CU in the GT-500 a 3 valve? I also thought I heard a tick at idle.
 

Norm Peterson

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So I guess 255 on a 3500 lbs car is different then a 255 on a 4000 lbs car. Not sure what a mm per lbs would be. That 4000 lbs GT-500 had 255 fronts and so does my 3500 lbs Coyote thus the difference?
This is true. What you need would be a carpet plot of either mu vs normal load or cornering force vs normal load. Something like this. Self-aligning torque has to do with "feel".

Slip Angle Graph 1.jpg


Norm
 
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gbstang

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What I didn't like about CarMax is they really do not inspect there cars much except for tires. Then new tires on a low millage car is always suspect. I bet the brake fluid has never been changed. The 2013/14s are much more desirable. Another 100hp and much bigger brakes. The salesman really did not understand why I would not think about a 10 year old car for $47,550 that smelled like it was smoked in. Although it is true, I just wanted a test drive. I have one more test drive to do in a 2021. It must be a track pack car with a track pak apps cluster. Is the 330CU in the GT-500 a 3 valve? I also thought I heard a tick at idle.

Very True!! I was trying to get a car for my daughter there at CARMAX. We decided on a car, I had looked it over and was ok with it, came back the next day and it had bald tires--NS! I told them I would not buy it with tires that were bald, the service manager comes out with a tire gauge, places it in the middle and the tread was legal only in the middle, and when I say legal, I mean by less than a thousandths of an inch. The sides were all bald! I told him DOT says the depth has to be across the whole tire and they argued it to nauseum. They finally offered to replace them at their cost I am sorry $600 for a set of tires for a POS Chevy cavalier does not cost $600--funny I looked at the salesman and said "Is that the last word?" he said yes, I pulled out my cashiers check for $15,000 and tore it up in front of them, he was shocked!! I left!

Sorry about the hijack, just had to opine...
 

LarryJM

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No Hijack just free thinkers. There seems to be 1 million used cars missing from the USA inventory right now. CarMax is really a rental car outlet and they are missing rental cars. The amount of cars sold is way down so they try hard to make $10,000 on a transaction. One way is to offer a 2012 Mustang GT-500 with five separate owners from New Jersey for $47,000. The new car dealers try the same even charging shipping twice in the quote. A very old trick.
 

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