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Discussion in 'Mustang Chit Chat' started by eighty6gt, Feb 11, 2019.
I think I will set the limiter to 7777.
Arp 2000 in the bottom end and I have seen em swing 8k and live.
The 2011 F150/Mustang rods are not boss spec afaik. I am pretty sure the weakness is not in the bolts, but that is interesting. Also, these new bolts are probably off a few grams from the stockers.
Looks like this will be a research project! As per usual.
Upgrade the oil pump gears before you spin it that high.
I might, I might not. I will need a Mustang pump so I will probably grab a Melling.
Planning on restricting or deleting the squirters.
Starting with a 2011 F150 engine with the beer can intake valves. Going with L&M/AED intake cam, Boss intake, maybe 2015 heads, should work for a few miles.
Oh just set it to 9999...and be done with it. If it blows up, start up a 'go fund me' page, and plead poverty.
Good idea. Because at 7778 they will fail. And not one revolution sooner.
But seriously, I am pretty sure all the second generation 5.0 rods are the same spec as the BOSS rods. I'd have to look it up to check. Those are good for 8K off the showroom floor and live at 700+ hp under boost. Should be good for your stated numbers and revs.
The rods are not the weak link.
2nd gen = 2015-2017
This is a 2011 truck engine, which was being made when the "boss 302" part number rods still existed apart from the GT and F150 rods. (I know, I ordered them and installed them in my 4.6.)
The roadrunner engine is an anvil. I wonder if anyone has ever failed one on the track, even modded to do 8500 all day long.
I would not build a 5.0 DOHC with any rod less than the OEM 2nd Gen or newer, or aftermarket. The OEM parts are DIRT CHEAP and easy as pie to get a hold of. They have been shown to be well up to the task you laid out. Why risk it by running anything less? Seems foolish to me.
Meh - I would need to balance the recip. assy if I do boss rods. $600+ for me. Then you're on the slippery slope of piston replacement. I want to just use the short block as-is. Down the road, if I felt spry, I could just swap the heads onto a complete 2015+ lower end. Machining/assembly/etc. in Canada is _Prohibitively_ expensive. Hence why I am looking at the finished 2015/Gen2 heads from Tasca.
Since I posted this I've seen many users have done gen 1 engines and run them to 7500 (found enormous threads re: the L&M cams on svtperf.com.) Remember, the Roadrunner system is alleged/rumored to be good for 8000+. I'm definitely not going there, as you start needing tone rings and a bunch of other annoying crap. The boss302 intake is reasonably priced, the GT/F150 throttle body is free - the CJ/etc... not so much.
You are not going to balance the rotating assembly? Just assemble and run it to 8000?
Good luck and please take pictures afterwards.
Ford balanced it.
Engine builders call that a "detroit balance" which is not a balance at all. Parts are made to a certain weight and then assembled as is. Some come out good. Some not so good. But at no point on any production line engine assembly plant does the actual rotating assembly get spun and then balanced.
This 5.0 high rev coyote off road build: I think everyone is misunderstanding what I'm doing. I am not touching the short block at all. It will be as ford made it in 2010/11.
Different/current/lame 3v build: When I installed boss rods on my 4.6 pistons they had to take some grams out of the crank as the big end got proportionally heavier. Also a fair amount off the big ends of the rod as one was fairly light. If I had purchased 9 rods, this could have gone better. Maybe the machine shop would have cleaned all of the swarf and crap off of the parts before giving them back?
When I had my 2011 GT supercharged by JPC Racing years ago, they told me that 600 at the wheels was about the limit for the stock Coyote at that time (only Gen1s then). It was a general statement though, and I didn't ask any probing questions. But, that is an extremely credible shop.
If (big if) that is a solid rule, then it will be much like the 3v rule of 450 RWHP for the stock block . . . there will be 1000 different variables that will affect whether you can push beyond that number or will blow even falling short of that number. Including luck, good or bad.
I somewhat disagree with the "detroit balance" statement. If you pull a crank out of any engine, you clearly see where the counterbalances have been drilled to balance it. I have pulled apart many engines, and at minimum, I have seen pistons marked with a single letter in Fords, A, B, C, etc. I am not sure if these markings are for size or weight of the piston. But the bottom line is the cranks ARE balanced.
So, if I were to build an engine with plans to spin it past the stock rev limit, balancing would be critical.
The stock oil pump is the weak link in the 5.0 coyote. It will fail first when pushing the redline higher than stock. Followed by the front two rods exiting the block.
They are not balanced as an assembly. Parts are weighed. Sometimes they are sorted by wt. Cranks may be drilled to achieve wt. But at no point is that actual crank balanced to the exact set of rods and pistons that it will be assembled with. This is a fact, not my opinion.
And that is why I would balance the rotating assembly if I were to rev past the stock limit.