tune or something else?

[pass1over]

I have cleaned the TB, with the recommended CRC MAF cleaner. It was rather dirty, but cleaning it didn't change anything better or worse.

 

[pass1over]

double post.

 

[pass1over]

Hi pass1over,
If you do decide to replace both WB's I suggest to replace only w\ OEM Ford WB O2 sensors regardless of the cost.

Rock Auto lists the Bosch 17321 as the Actual OE sensor. Is the Motorcraft one not just this Bosch one with their own number on it?

 

[07gts197]

I have read that Ford changed the oem sensor from NTK to bosch at one time for whatever reason. A lot of people, including me, have had issues with bosch o2 sensors failing prematurely. Supposedly they’re calibrated differently than the stock o2 sensors. It’s a known issue with the sn95’s. I’ve had to replace one on my 07 Gt not too long after installing one myself. So I’d suggest trying NTK o2 sensors instead.

And I just wanted to throw my two cents in about cleaning the tb. You can force the tb blade open by hand, it’s even in the bbk instructions to do so. I’ve done it with my gt500 Tb and my bbk 75mm Tb on my 09 p71. I think where people go wrong is leaving it installed with the key on and try to force it open and the ecu tries to close it. I haven’t had any issues and don’t see why anyone would.


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[GlassTop09]

Rock Auto lists the Bosch 17321 as the Actual OE sensor. Is the Motorcraft one not just this Bosch one with their own number on it?

Ford uses BOSCH now as the base WB (or UEGO if preferred) O2 sensor under their MC brand. IMHO I would get these thru the Ford dealership due to hopefully better QA\QC control on the product since Ford is putting it's brand on them (I know they aren't cheap). This is not to say that BOSCH's version of the Ford spec'd WB O2's sold under their brand isn't good so there's that. A preference thing for me. NTK makes a direct fit OE spec WB O2 sensor as well (#24348) but is more costly....ironically it's cost is in line w\ the MotorCraft equivalent (DY1165) so there's this to consider.........
The thing I'd stress to do going forward regardless of which 1 you go with is to periodically do a performance check on them during a cold start to ensure that they're heating up properly before OL to CL transition to also ensure same operation during DFSO events.

I have read that Ford changed the oem sensor from NTK to bosch at one time for whatever reason. A lot of people, including me, have had issues with bosch o2 sensors failing prematurely. Supposedly they’re calibrated differently than the stock o2 sensors. It’s a known issue with the sn95’s. I’ve had to replace one on my 07 Gt not too long after installing one myself. So I’d suggest trying NTK o2 sensors instead.

And I just wanted to throw my two cents in about cleaning the tb. You can force the tb blade open by hand, it’s even in the bbk instructions to do so. I’ve done it with my gt500 Tb and my bbk 75mm Tb on my 09 p71. I think where people go wrong is leaving it installed with the key on and try to force it open and the ecu tries to close it. I haven’t had any issues and don’t see why anyone would.


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Now as far as the issue between NTK or BOSCH O2 sensors, actually Ford has scaled the firmware in their PCM's to recognize both NTK & BOSCH specs so both do work.....but the big issue that I've found 1st hand between the 2 is w\ the NB type O2 sensors used w\ the 05-10 S197's as well as the earlier SN95's.....just as you also have, but to date not w\ the WB O2's.
In the Ford WB O2 sensor world, from my research BOSCH or DENSO are the 2 most recognized & recommended A\F O2 sensor brands to use which I'm actually running a pair in my wife's '09 Linc MKS (BOSCH #17066 A\F sensors) w\ excellent performance to date (3 1\2 yrs & running). NTK's are probably as good but for some reason aren't widely mentioned......

In the Ford NB O2 sensor world though, the BOSCH version #51717 (or Ford F85F-9G4444-BD) NB O2 sensors show to be very poor quality, especially the heater elements used in these sensors. They don't heat up very well at all & can cause erratic feedback fueling control which can cause all sorts of poor operation\damage. I found this out 1st hand myself so also recommend NTK 22060, 22500 NB O2 sensors for these platforms from my own experience.

 

[07gts197]

One thing I didn’t read was that this is a coyote, my bad. I agree 100%, thanks for clarifying without being a dick.


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[DieHarder]

Ford uses BOSCH now as the base WB (or UEGO if preferred) O2 sensor under their MC brand. IMHO I would get these thru the Ford dealership due to hopefully better QA\QC control on the product since Ford is putting it's brand on them (I know they aren't cheap). This is not to say that BOSCH's version of the Ford spec'd WB O2's sold under their brand isn't good so there's that. A preference thing for me. NTK makes a direct fit OE spec WB O2 sensor as well (#24348) but is more costly....ironically it's cost is in line w\ the MotorCraft equivalent (DY1165) so there's this to consider.........
The thing I'd stress to do going forward regardless of which 1 you go with is to periodically do a performance check on them during a cold start to ensure that they're heating up properly before OL to CL transition to also ensure same operation during DFSO events.




Now as far as the issue between NTK or BOSCH O2 sensors, actually Ford has scaled the firmware in their PCM's to recognize both NTK & BOSCH specs so both do work.....but the big issue that I've found 1st hand between the 2 is w\ the NB type O2 sensors used w\ the 05-10 S197's as well as the earlier SN95's.....just as you also have, but to date not w\ the WB O2's.
In the Ford WB O2 sensor world, from my research BOSCH or DENSO are the 2 most recognized & recommended A\F O2 sensor brands to use which I'm actually running a pair in my wife's '09 Linc MKS (BOSCH #17066 A\F sensors) w\ excellent performance to date (3 1\2 yrs & running). NTK's are probably as good but for some reason aren't widely mentioned......

In the Ford NB O2 sensor world though, the BOSCH version #51717 (or Ford F85F-9G4444-BD) NB O2 sensors show to be very poor quality, especially the heater elements used in these sensors. They don't heat up very well at all & can cause erratic feedback fueling control which can cause all sorts of poor operation\damage. I found this out 1st hand myself so also recommend NTK 22060, 22500 NB O2 sensors for these platforms from my own experience.

View attachment 79447

View attachment 79448

Question: Did the car those plugs came out of actually run???

 

[Juice]

Question: Did the car those plugs came out of actually run???

And somebody drove way too long past the cylinder misfire check engine light being on....

 

[07 Boss]

Seems like I always had issues come up running the bosch sensors. Since I switched back the original NGK's I haven't had any issues.

 

[JEWC_Motorsports]

I run Denso sensors on E85 and i have never had an issue, same set now has 40k miles. Ford's went out after a few thousand miles.

 

[Juice]

I had to look, Im running NTKs IIRC, got them at RA a few years ago. And they are working fine in the LTs. Sensor location is in the collectors. Made no change in tune from stock to LTs. Zero issues with tune/drivability.

 

[pass1over]

My car was built 8/11, so RA says I should use DY1185 instead of DY1165. They're only $79/each and the Bosch 17321 is $54.
I have heard the idea that the o2's that Bosch makes for Ford might be tighter specs/tolerances than what they would sell under their own name brand. $50 total difference in price, guess it's not really that much.

Man, those plugs are beyond gone. Running on only 3 of the 8 cylinders huh?

 

[pass1over]

Plugged in a scanner, the I/M monitor status had O2S, CAT and HTR flashing red. Everything else was green.

Also pulled a P1101 from the Ford KOEO test. But has never thrown a code for this. Only code I have ever seen since LT's were installed was P0420. But I found/fixedan exhaust leak and it hasn't happened since. MAF has been cleaned multiple times with CRC MAF cleaner. All gaskets were replaced on CAI (MAF gasket, and the breather tube gasket). Filter and connection to TB boot are still supple and not dry rotted or have holes.

Haven't had chance to drive and watch live data yet.

 

[Juice]

Ignore the emission readiness warnings. They have no impact on drivability. (Those are the ones I have trouble getting to complete btw).

 

[pass1over]

Drive home with obd2 scanner hooked up. Both o2s were switching back and forth and car stayed in CL basically the whole time.
By the time I got the scanner reading available PID's, car was already in CL, so I'm assuming it's happening quickly.

 

[Pentalab]

Drive home with obd2 scanner hooked up. Both o2s were switching back and forth and car stayed in CL basically the whole time.
By the time I got the scanner reading available PID's, car was already in CL, so I'm assuming it's happening quickly.

My 2010 auto, with small roush M90 blower stays in closed loop all the time.... until gas is mashed and into boost...then it's in open loop.

 

[pass1over]

I'll have to watch it under a full throttle pull.
Hooked up scanner today on drive into work. Both o2's were only switching from 0.000-0.005 volts for about 3-4 minutes, until I got to the end of my drive and onto the road. After that, they went up into the 0.6xx-0.8xx range. Is this the action of a lazy o2 that you were speaking of?

 

[Juice]

I'll have to watch it under a full throttle pull.
Hooked up scanner today on drive into work. Both o2's were only switching from 0.000-0.005 volts for about 3-4 minutes, until I got to the end of my drive and onto the road. After that, they went up into the 0.6xx-0.8xx range. Is this the action of a lazy o2 that you were speaking of?

That sounds like the downstream O2 sensors, and its normal. You want to see what the upstream sensors are doing.

 

[pass1over]

no, it was B1S1 and B2S1 o2 voltage

I'll go double check on my scanner, but im 99% positive it was the front sensors.

 

[Juice]

If infact they are the correct upstream sensors, I expect fast switching guring normal steady cruise, and read full rich like .8-.9 v full throttle romp.

 

[pass1over]

they were in the .6-.8 v range while I was cruising @ like 2200rpm, 60-65mph
I'll continue to keep an eye on them and see how they're acting. I hate throwing money at things, but with 173k on the car, I wouldn't be surprised if the original o2's are a little tired.