Vorshlag 2011 Mustang 5.0 GT - track/autocross/street Project

Discussion in 'Vorshlag Motorsports' started by Vorshlag-Fair, Oct 19, 2012.

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  1. Vorshlag-Fair

    Vorshlag-Fair Official Site Vendor

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    Admin Edit: NEW POSTS WILL BE MADE IN THIS UPDATED THREAD: http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123860
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    Project introduction for S197FORUMS:
    Some of you guys that read multiple forums already know about me and/or Vorshlag Motorsports. Vorshlag is a suspension design and manufacturing shop, making the world's best camber plates and numerous other items for various modern sports/sporty cars, such as: competition motor and transmission mounts, competition wheel studs, wheel spacers, and even our popular BMW LS1 swap kits. We're also a dealer for Dutch-made AST and Moton monotube shocks, Whiteline, Eibach, Hypercoil, Swift, Powerflex, Energy Suspensions, and several other suspension related companies. We're all racers here, running our test cars in SCCA Solo and NASA Time Trial, among other venues, from 30-35 weekends a year. There is no better place to test your parts than in some competitive form of motorsport.

    After supporting the S197 in a small way from 2008-on with our camber plates, My wife and I test drove a new 5.0 Coyote equipped 2011 GT the week they hit dealerships in 2010. I knew what the 3V 4.6L cars felt like and this 5.0L car was different in EVERY way. The extra 100 hp, the Getrag 6-spd, the much improved 14" Brembo brakes, the improved materials/exterior look/fit and finish, and a quieter interior. Wow... Ford just got serious with this car! We immediately ordered one of our own.

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    In August 2010 we received our custom ordered 2011 Mustang GT. This was a Brembo equipped car with some other comfort and convenience options my wife insisted on. She daily drives the car and also races it with me in SCCA Solo and NASA Time Trial. Over the past two years we have used this car as a test mule for developing Vorshlag products, developing new AST dampers, and testing various parts from Whiteline, American Racing Headers, D-Force wheels, and many more. This car has been autocrossed dozens of times in SCCA STX, STU and ESP classes. It has run from TTB to TTS classes in NASA Time Trial. We ran it at a TX2K track event, Optima Challenge Qualifier event (which made it to TV), Global Time Attack, and numerous HPDE events at 7 different road courses. We have drag raced it, too.

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    We searched for a long time to find a good Mustang forum to post this thread in, and this is the one everyone said had the serious track and autocross people. Instead of copying 100 or so posts from the 2 years from this 2011 GT project into this thread, I linked some other forums that have all of the posts (and various user feedback) below:
    Quick Two Year Overview: The car started out being prepped for the SCCA's STX autocross class - which had a maximum of 265mm tire width on 9" wheels, 140 treadwear minimum, and only header-back exhaust and cold air intake modifications allowed. Other than that it has almost the exact same suspension rules as the ESP class, which uses R compound tires and is home to the modded pony cars. Everyone said this car would be too heavy for STX class (made up of 3 series BMWs, Subaru WRXs, RX8s, and other lightweight sports cars) and for the most part, I now agree. The weight of this S197 5.0 is just too high to compete with these flyweight cars on the same tire width, even if we made 430 whp in STX legal form. For autocrossing power is the least important thing, but that's all we had. Some of the faster STX cars were 800-900 pounds lighter than our car, and weight is death.

    Due to the ample suspension allowances of STX class and the unusual points modification system in NASA TT, for Time Trial track events we ended up starting in TTB class, but then moving up to TTA and even TTS class as we added more suspension mods - still on skinny street tires.

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    After 18 months of tilting at windmills in STX we threw in the towel and moved to ESP class in May 2012. The upgrade to 315mm R compounds transformed the car and we immediately knew we were in the right autocross class for this car. The power advantage we had in STX could now be utilized, and we spent 4 months developing the car for ESP class and took it to the 2012 Solo Nationals. I placed 4th out of 33 and Amy won ESP-Ladies. The car was still excessively overweight at 3540 pounds, some 300 pounds heavier than the 2nd place ESP S197 Mustang and almost 450 pounds heavier than the 1st place ESP Firebird.

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    So in September 2012 we purchased a 2013 Mustang GT for a dedicated ESP build. That car will be covered in a separate build thread which will also be added to this forum soon.

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    We have made numerous products for this chassis in the past 2 years. Our camber plate design radically changed in early 2012 and now I am happy with the design, ease of adjustment, and robustness of the product. I was unhappy with the wheel offerings in 2010 so we designed an 18x10" wheel that actually fit this chassis and had D-Force make a run of these for us.

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    Those wheels sold very well and now several other wheel makers have identically sized offerings. We sell one of those - a Forgestar in 18x10 and 19x10, as well as custom sizes to 11" and 12" widths (our 2011 has custom Forgestars F14s in 18x11F, 18x12R). We have worked with AST to develop the all new 4150, tested all of the pre-production S197 products made by Whiteline. We have made a custom rear wing (track), and a custom rear spoiler (autocross), custom seat brackets/sliders, custom brake ducting, custom rear diff fluid catch tank/vent system, custom dual 3" catted exhaust, and more.

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    This series of posts has a huge following on the 4 forums where it is posted, but we don't have the thread on any dedicated Mustang forums, until now. We are not a supporting vendor here - we tried to be and they won't take our money. So we decided to put our thread here and make the updates. Yes, some of the parts we developed was so we could sell parts, I won't deny that, and some of this we just made for our car to fix a problem. In the past we had noticed some of our parts being mentioned on this forum so we started answering questions, which is allowed. I'm sure a few vendors won't like us posting here, but I have had dozens of E-mails, calls and PMs from readers here who do appreciate what we are sharing. Hopefully the site owner will feel we're sharing more tech know-how than sales douchiness, and will allow the thread to stay.

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    If you like what you have heard so far go check out the back-story one of the 4 forums linked above. This will help you "catch-up" with what we've done on this car over the past 2 years of posts. We share everything - alignment settings, spring rates, weights, tips and tricks, things that worked, and even our mistakes and failures. If you are tracking or autocrossing an S197 Mustang I suspect you will see something new, or get a laugh reading about how we learned a lesson from doing something wrong. We appreciate hearing feedback and your experiences, too.

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    I will follow this post with our most recent 2011 GT thread update, from October 11, 2012. This post covered some pre-race prep on both our 2011 and 2013 GTs, a NASA Time Trial weekend (Oct 6-7) in both cars, and a dyno day for these two Mustangs (one bone stock, one modded) + a 2013 Subaru BRZ that we're building as well. We have about 8 or 9 similar build project threads going right now, all as detailed as this one. Each project's posts will have pictures, some will have video, and many will have a bit of humor as well. If this thread on S197FORUM isn't locked/burned/banned the next time we have an update for this project, I will come back and add future posts here, also.

    Thanks,
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
  2. Vorshlag-Fair

    Vorshlag-Fair Official Site Vendor

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    Project Update for Oct 11, 2012: We drove both the 2011 and 2013 Mustang GT's at last weekend's NASA Time Trial event at Eagles canyon Raceway (ECR). I had planned to wait after this coming weekend's SCCA Club Race/PDX event but they cancelled it, so I will share what we have learned now instead. I'm still writing the 2013's first post in its own thread, but it is coming soon. We also did some dyno pulls on both Mustangs and the 2013 BRZ yesterday at True Street Motorsports, so I can share those as well.

    Pre-Race Prep

    As mentioned in my last post the '11 GT needed surprisingly little prep before this NASA race weekend. We had just run it at the Global Time Attack and a local autocross just 2 weeks prior and all of the then newly added Whiteline rear suspension bits were working perfectly - and with two weeks of silent street use we were all smiles. Other than two more new Kumho V710 tires, an oil/filter change, and the swap back to the winged trunk and race tires, it was an easy prep.

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    That shot above shows all of the Whiteline goodies. These changes + the slight bump in spring rates are all that were different from the car in June when we ran ECR and I knocked off a 1:58.2 lap, using Hanchey's AIM Solo in-car lap timer. We were back to running Kumhos again, and otherwise on the same suspension (Motons + Vorshlag plates) and running the same power level (430 whp) and aero (our custom mega wing + LS splitter).

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    The black '13 GT, however, needed much more track prep help - but we only had one day to do it, with the sudden change of schdule on our E46 BMW. While the '13 started out life 45 pounds lighter than the '11, it was much less equipped, and missing the much-loved 14" front Brembo brake package - which also includes wider wheels, and different shocks/bars/springs (we think). We had planned on taking our 2001 BMW E46 330Ci to run at ECR in the TTD class, but our painter needed more time so the car wasn't going to be ready, so we hurriedly put the 2013 GT into some sort of track-ready form.

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    It was still bone stock, with the craptastic 235/50/18 all seasons, 18x8" wheels, stock non-Brembo brakes, stock pads/brake fluid, and stock base GT suspension (which I think is different than the shocks/bars that come on the Brembo equipped cars). I couldn't bare to run this car this stock, as it would shred the tires and be laughably slow, so we threw some parts at it on the Friday before the event. A set of Vorshlag camber plates took the front camber from 0 to -1.7° (with lowering springs the max negative number is closer to -2.8°), threw the old Eibach front bar from the 2011 on, and slapped on a set of our Vorshlag 18x10" wheels and that old set of 295/35/18 Nitto NT-05s that I ran at the Optima Challenge.

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    As you can see, switching from the skinny 8" wide wheels and 235mm tires to the 10" wide D-Force wheels and 295mm Nittos actually helped the car lose over 27 pounds of unsprung weight/rotational inertia. That is a huge win, but the +60mm of tire should add more grip, too. The crew here tried to convince me to get a set of track-worthy pads for the '13, but I veto'd the idea, as we are chucking the whole stock brake set-up into the trash very soon and I didn't want to waste $300+ on track-worthy pads for a single event. I said "Hey, they are 13" front brakes, how bad could they be?!" I also blew off flushing out the stock brake fluid with some better Motul RBF600 that we stock and sell. Turns out those were two crucial errors in judgement on my part...

    NASA @ ECR, Saturday Oct 6

    We loaded up the '11 in the trailer Friday night. JasonM made new number and class graphics for both cars and we applied those at about 6 pm - right as the weather went from 80°F and sunny to COLD and overcast. Uh-oh... the forecast looked bleak but I towed the trailer out to ECR early Saturday morning, with Amy following me in the '13. Had to park in the gravel as the place was packed with NASA racers (something the SCCA club racers are sorely missing - more on that in a minute). The HPDE groups were loaded up, as was the Time Trial group, and three big W2W race groups. Pretty good, considering the crap weather and late event date in the year (over a month after the NASA Nationals).

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    We quickly unloaded and fueled up the 2011 and got our butts to grid. Amy was the lucky driver of the 2011 on Saturday and she ran in the TTS class against a very well prepped C5 Z06, an S197 Mustang AI car with big aero on Hoosiers, and many other quick TT racers. I was the unlucky schlub in the 2013 GT for the day, woefully under-prepped for TTB class - running against TTB fiend KenO and his Vorshlag/AST sponsored E46 M3; he already owned the previous TTB ECR track record at a 1:59.8, which he reset this past weekend by over a second - and he drives the car to and from the track, with a full interior. Anything sub-2 minute is QUICK at this track, too.

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    Let me back up a second - before the Saturday TT event even began I heard about a fellow TT competitor that crashed coming out of Turn 4 on Friday's practice event. A little tank slapper off into a 2000 pound hay bale that pretty much totaled the right side of this EVO X. So that's two totaled cars in two weeks from local Time Trial competitors - the Mustang at GTA and this EVO here. That sucks, but this is what can happen when you track a car at 10/10ths (or 11/10ths?) Don't forget the potential consequences, and don't short change your own personal safety. Luckily this driver also walked away unharmed, just lighter in the wallet. :(

    Our Previous Lap Times at ECR

    So back in early June I ran a 2:03.9 at the Optima Challenge on the 295mm NT-05 street tires, bitching about tires the entire time. The rears would overheat on the '11 within half a lap and I had to baby the throttle everywhere. That was with all of the same aero and the Moton Club Sports but an aftermarket PHB and the softer 450/175# spring rates. Then when we went back in June 23rd at the Five Star Ford track day I ran the big 315mm Kumho V710s, but otherwise the same suspension and aero, and turned a best lap of 1:58.2. Both June events had ambient temps exceeding 100°F. That 1:58 time in June was actually faster than the old track record for NASA TTS class, which was a 1:58.4, set in 2011. So we had thought all either Amy or I had to do was match or better that time from June and we could set a new track record in our street driven Mustang.

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    Amy went out in the first session, and in the Texas NASA Region the 1st TT session on Saturday doesn't count for the competition, only for gridding the cars in order of speed for Session 2. Kind of weird, but we all know it. Normally the quickest times happen early in the day, like this first session, due to excessive track temps. But this day was COLD, and it only varied from 47-50°F during both days, so track temp wasn't a problem!
    She went out and busted off a 2:01 in her first session, which wasn't bad. Then in the 2nd session (or the first one that counted for competition), with no changes other than driving she popped off a 1:58.8!

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    Amy's best lap in TT session 2, at a 1:58.8

    I was floored. She was leading TTS class over some other TTS drivers in real race cars, but in this overweight full street car. I asked her what she did different and she said "I pushed it a LOT harder!" She got out of the car shaking a little but with the BIGGEST smile I've ever seen. Oh man she was HOOKED on R compounds now. This was by far the fastest I've ever seen her run on a road course, and come to find out it was her very first time racing this car on R-compound tires on a road course (I kinda hogged the car at the previous events where we ran sticky tires). "I want some more..."

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    After her second session we made some lunch, then she hit the track again in session 3, but she only managed a 1:59 lap. We talked to Mike Patterson at lunch about a ride-along for some pointers for her. Mike is a long time AI racer, NASA race director, and one of the gurus at Moton/AST-USA. They went out in an HPDE3 session right after TT session 3 with Mike riding shotgun, giving her advice.

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    He knows pony cars and this track very well, and showed her a few places to tweak her line, where to track out farther, and some places to brake a tick later in the high speed braking zones. But overall he was impressed with her smoothness, ability to take advice and alter her driving quickly, and the car's lap times. He also raved at how well our 2011 GT soaked up some of the more notorious bumps at ECR, stating "That's the best handling street car I've ever ridden through turn 8 in at this track!" Gotta give credit to his own shop's custom Moton shocks (with DDP pistons + custom valving), and the new Whiteline S197 suspension bits.

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    So after this 4th session for her that day she went back to the trailer and we fueled up the 2011 once again. She was ready to try some of the new tricks Mike taught her in TT session 4, and the weather was still chilly but otherwise conditions were unchanged. Her main rival in TTS for the day was in a yellow C5 Z06 Corvette had just busted off a 1:57.5 but she felt she still had some left and was going for it....

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  3. Vorshlag-Fair

    Vorshlag-Fair Official Site Vendor

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    (continued from above)

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    During her warm-up lap I saw her arm go up, signaling "pit in", and she came into immediately to the hot pits. I went over to see what was up and she said the rear brakes were making a horrendous noise - and I looked at the rotors, and both were split! It probably happened between her 4th session on track while the car parked down at our trailer, sitting in the cold wind cooling down. We had heard a slight noise going up to grid in TT session 4, so I got out, walked next to the car, and listened... then it went away. Couldn't see anything. But as soon as she braked hard once on her warm-up lap the rotor splits opened up. Just a single half speed lap like this wiped out the nearly new rear Porterfield R4 pads, too.



    We quickly put the car in the trailer and bombed back across town to Vorshlag. Ryan met us at the shop with a pair of new rear rotors he picked up at O'Reilys and he swapped those + some used Porterfield R4S pads we typically used for autocrossing/street use, just on the back. The front 14" brake rotors and pads looked fine. We reloaded the car and got some sleep.

    How About the 2013 in TTB?

    Yea, about that. Well we had nobody there shooting pictures for us all day Saturday, so I don't have any "action pics" in the '13, and with only one video camera we didn't get in in-car vids of the '13 either. That's probably all for the best, as it was pretty terrible on track. I cannot describe in words how awful this car turned and braked. It was rather remarkable. Sure, the 5.0 Coyote V8 made boatloads of power, and the NT-05 tires worked "OK" in these frigid conditions (finally didn't overheat!), but the brakes were atrocious and the handling is best described as "boat like".

    ECR is a little bumpy. OK, it is a lot bumpy, but with good shocks on our various track cars (ASTs or Motons) we don't notice the surface humps, heaves and bumps at this track almost at all. This 2013 GT was on the OEM shocks, and I'd swear they were 200,000 mile blown shocks and struts if I hadn't seen the odometer reading 600 miles with my own eyes. The front end was porpoising up and down about a foot all down the back straight. Even the corner workers we talked to at lunch remarked at how bouncy and floaty the car looked. First session best time was only a 2:10, but that session doesn't count for times.

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    Even with maxed out camber, which did help me from shredding the outside edges of the front tires, this car was a hot mess. Like driving a guided missile - all kinds of power, but with minimal turning and no way to stop. The handling was like this: it would turn in, then keep rolling, then bounce through the corners and flail around, seeing both top and bottom of suspension travel several times per corner. Just awful. The base GTs must have a set of noodle shocks and springs. And we even had an Eibach front bar set at full stiff, to try to fight this massive bodyroll. And big 295mm tires on the thing, up from 235s. It was all "lipstick on a pig" with the stock suspension, though. This car needs better shocks and springs BADLY.

    By TT session 2 the base GT's 13.2" front brakes were going away quickly, and by that session I realized the brakes only had ONE hot lap in it at a time, then needed a really slow cool down lap to get the brakes to come back. I was braking the '13 a solid 50 to 100 feet sooner than in the '11 but it was still barely staying on track. And one time, it uh....didn't.

    I was coming down the back straight in TT session 2 at what the (second, borrowed) AIM Solo later said was 115 mph. I go to brake for turn 7, down shifting from 5th to 3rd... but there were no brakes. Pumping madly, nothing happening. I could say I was still "getting a feel" for the stock pads and braking system but I was abusing the crap out of the car, to try to make better lap times due to the abysmal handling. It was too much and the front brakes just didn't have anything left. I won't blame the equipment, because I bought the car on purpose without the Brembos, then left the craptasic stock pads and fluid on there, then over-drove it; I have to blame myself for not having the forethought to replace these critical OEM bits + the extra abuse I was laying on the car.

    So in TT session 2 on Saturday I went WAY off the end of the back straight, still doing about 80 mph, even though the entry speed is about 50 mph (according to the data I was doing 123 mph and slowing down to 51 mph in the '11 GT - lots of braking). The corner workers had a good laugh at lunch. "We thought that car would never stop!" I was a good 100 yards off in the dirt, but the tall and soft 4x4 stock suspension at least soaked the off-roading up well enough. Only evidence was a little stalk of grass in the grill, and otherwise zero damage. I got off lucky.

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    Turns out the front brake pads were done by the end of TT session 3, as shown above. Went from brand new full depth OEM pads to a hair off the backing plates in three sessions. Half of the pad material seems to be sitting there inside the front wheels, where I parked after coming off track! Since we had no times in TT session 1, and I earned a big fat DSQ for TT session 2, I had to go out and nail down something in TT session 3. Surprisingly, with much attention paid to the quickly fading brakes, I nailed down three laps in the 2:07s with a best of 2:07.33. By then my nerves were as shot as the brakes and I changed my role for the rest of the day to "Amy's support crew". I finished 3rd out of 4 in class, well behind KenO's 1:58.678. Oh well, not very shocking... since the car had no shocks! :p

    I am glad I got to experience the nearly bone stock '13 on track, so I can be better informed when I talk about how important suspension upgrades are for this S197 chassis. After running in the beautifully handling '11 GT all day, Amy had zero desire to drive the '13 on track for Sunday, so we drove it back to the shop, following the truck and trailer pulling the '11 in for rear rotor replacement.

    NASA @ ECR, Sunday Oct 7

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    Sunday TT Results: http://www.nasatx.com/resultspoints/2012Results/ECR_Oct_7_Sunday_TT.pdf

    Sunday we pulled up back at the track and quickly unloaded the '11 GT. I was driving it that day and Amy was support for the day - but secretly she hoped for a session or two in the car. She was still REALLY pumped after tracking it all day Saturday. We put in a little fuel and got to grid in time. The weather was again 47°F and warmed up to a balmy 50, with a little less wind than the day before - but still plenty cold. The schedule showed the same cars entered, with Michael Perkins TTS C5 Z06 the biggest threat, who won Saturday's TTS class with a best lap of 1:57.5. TTA was a good 2 seconds quicker that day, so I was worried that a certain EVO might jump up to TTS to reset the track record in this class - but they weren't listed in TTS (yet).

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    I went out and pushed hard in Sunday's TT Session 1 and got a best lap of 1:57.354, and was the quickest TT car in the session. Out again in TT Session 2 and ran two nearly identical 1:57.14 laps, only a couple of tenths faster. Mike Perkins took his TTS Z06 to a 1:57.390, so it was close! I didn't know at the time (they didn't get his class right until session 3 results were posted) but Josh Dunn's TTA classed gutted EVO had jumped to TTS for Sunday and was already running a 1:56.471.

    For TT Session 3 I pushed a bit harder in a few spots and managed two more 1:57.11's, with one of those watching the AIM having a Forecasted 1:55.8 lap, right until I put two tires off exiting corner 11 onto the front straight. GRR! I knew the car had a high 1:58 in it but I couldn't even break the 1:56s in three sessions, which was very frustrating. It was in this session that Josh Dunn had cinched the TTS class with a 1:55.326, and the results finally showed him in TTS, so I knew I was out of contention for the day. Oh well, I took to TT session 4 with a vengeance, determined to get that 1:56 lap, just to make that personal milestone.

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    Click the image above to see in-car video of Terry's best lap of 1:56.33

    So the two hot laps from TT session 4 in the video above were hectic. I passed 3 cars in traffic to a 1:56.9 lap, then had a semi-clear lap of a 1:56.343, with a car spinning off track in front of me (I lifted a bit there to make sure he wasn't coming back on track). I talked to the driver of the black TTS S197 Mustang, and it is a soon-to-be-AI car but he was running on Hoosiers, makes 400 whp with a 351W, and the car was about 200 pounds lighter than our '11. It looks like I was only catching him under braking, and most of that into turn 7.

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    By the end of the weekend on Sunday Amy and I were both utterly exhausted, but we both felt really good about our lap times. She wanted one more shot at the car on Sunday but after seeing how close to a 1:56 I was she let me take all 4 sessions. For Sunday I finished 2nd place to the EVO, a full second back, oh well. I beat the old TTS track record by 2 full seconds, so damn the new record! :D A 1:56.3 is still pretty darned quick for a full weight street car with good suspension, some aero, and two engine bolt-ons, I feel. We have had a lot of racers tell us the same thing in the past week, too. Mark Smith reset the American Iron track record at ECR with a 1:59.848, in a Boss 302-S, for comparison. The best ECR lap I had run prior to this was way back in 2008 in the E36 LS1 Alpha car, with a 1:57.2 in a gutted 2500 pound BMW with the same 315mm R compounds. We discussed our lap times and any ways to improve them in this car over excellent TexMex food from Fuzzy's Taco Shop in Sanger, TX, located at the interstate outside of ECR. This is the perfect post-race meal!

    Explain The Gains

    What made the 2 second improvement in this car since June 23rd? That is a BIG jump in time for a car that is otherwise unchanged, and one that we have driven so much at this track (I am not really "learning to drive the track better", having made many hundreds of laps here in the past five years). The only changes to the 2011 GT since our 1:58 laps were the slight bump in spring rates (which I detailed in my last post) and the addition of the full suite of Whiteline S197 components. I might sound like a broken record but this Whiteline stuff really has transformed the car, which we have noted at the Solo Nationals, GTA at TMS, and at NASA at ECR this past weekend. The Watts Link is the big game changer, but their swaybars, LCAs and rear relocation brackets helped, too. This stuff works, and more importantly, it doesn't make any racket on the street.

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    I am very, very impressed with the Whiteline parts and apparently you guys are responding to our positive results, with a lot of Whiteline S197 (and BRZ!) sales in the past few weeks. Thanks.... because in the end, that helps us keep doing what we're doing: trying new products, designing our own parts, and racing on them to prove what works and what doesn't. :)

    Dyno Testing

    So on Wednesday of this week we took three of Vorshlag's project cars to True Street Motorsports in McKinney for some dyno testing.

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    Nothing earth shattering here, just a routine "check-up" dyno pull on the 2011 GT and a first "Baseline" pull on the still stock 2013 GT and Matt's 2013 BRZ. Weather kind of sucked, with 100% humidity plus spitting rain, and even with SAE standardized corrections the 2011 tested a tick lower than the 430 whp pull on the same dyno back in Spring, but still pretty close at 424 whp.

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    The 2013 also made exactly what I thought it would make at 376.9 whp - within 1 hp of the 2011 GT when it was in stock form (378.5 whp). Ford re-rated the Coyote 5.0 in 2012 with an additional 8 hp (412 -> 420) but it didn't show up on our dyno test. Me thinks it was marketing fluff.

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    Still, 377 whp is nothing to sneeze at, and most of the reason why the 2013 was able to knock down that 2:07.3 lap at ECR. Like I stated above, the only thing it had on track was horsepower, as the brakes and handling were pretty much crap in stock form, in my view. It was a big floaty missile, that once you got it pointed in the right direction would gobble up straight-aways, but sometimes fly off the end of them. We were a solid 4 seconds faster on the exact same set of 295mm street tires with just better suspension/brakes in the '11 GT, and the 47 hp difference between these cars wasn't where we made up 4 seconds. Then we were fully 11 seconds faster with the tweaked '11 GT on slightly wider R compounds. And driving the '11 GT was much easier and confidence inspiring.

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    The overlay dyno chart above is showing all three cars: the 2011 GT with headers and a cold air (plus a custom tune by True Street), the bone stock 2013 GT, and the bone stock 2013 Subaru BRZ. Look at the shapes of the dyno curves for the stock vs modded 5.0 GTs - they are remarkably similar. The big 1-7/8" Long Tube ARH headers and the Steeda cold air added torque and horsepower EVERYWHERE, with zero loss of torque at any RPM. In fact there is an extra "torque hump" on the '11 at the extreme low end (2500-3200), which is very noticeable street driving both cars back-to-back. For the 2013 GT's headers I am again going with the bigger of the two primary options on the ARH long tubes, as it is simply a win-win over the 1-3/4" primaries (as ARH told me, the 1-7/8" full length units "make more power everywhere" than the smaller primary option).

    The little BRZ made 167 whp, which was more than I thought it would. About right for a car rated at 200 hp (meh, so it is about a 16% drivetrain loss). And yes, our 2013 GT stickered ($31K) almost the same as the BRZ ($27K), but the GT was actually purchased for several thousand dollars less (with that $1500 rebate, + it is domestic and therefor they deal). But you don't buy a BRZ or FR-S for horsepower, you get one because it is a nimble RWD chassis that weighs almost 800 pounds less than the solid axle GT. Completely different animal. You can read more about our exploits with the "FT86" chassis in this thread on VoMo forums, also located on NASIOC, 'Carvers, RRAX, and SCCAForums.

    What's Next

    I swear the 2013 is getting it's own thread very soon. We have been removing parts, weighing things and gathering all sorts of interesting data on this car, so the new thread will have some new information worth reading. Our 2011 GT project thread here will continue, as we plan to keep tracking and street driving the red car.

    The next event for the '11 is the Five Star Ford track day on Nov 17th at ECR. Vorshlag will be there with our trailer and some of our race crew to help support the many Mustang drivers likely to attend. We can help check your alignment, help set tire pressures, and will be giving ride-alongs in the red car with me or Amy driving. That should be fun! :D

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The 2011 was back to street duty on Monday after a wheel swap. After we leaned on Wednesday that the SCCA PDX event was cancelled the crew here at Vorshlag swapped back to the stock trunk, too. The 2013 GT is badly in need of a bunch of suspension parts, to rid it of the 4x4 look and parade float handling. The uber-light brakes we will use are another three grand, and there's the LS back seat delete kit that is only another $900 more. Another set of custom Forgestars would be help, then we can get to cutting the fenders to make the big tires fit. I really need about five grand to build or buy what we need to get started. Hopefully my 2001 BMW E46 330 will sell for good money in the next couple of weeks (it just came back from the painter yesterday and looks flawless!) and I can use some of that cash to throw at the 2013.

    I am almost done writing our "How To Build your 2011-2013+ Mustang for Track Use" article, too. Our entire crew is helping contribute to that one. We have had customers asking us for "the wish list" so we finally put it down on paper. Err... electronically. In that article we will finally list out which modifications we think help lower your track times the most, and in which order we recommend doing them in, with some budgetary numbers along the way. We also will list out what options to look for when ordering or buying a 2011-13 Mustang as well - "How to Buy a Mustang The Right Way".

    More soon,
     
  4. Red_Devil

    Red_Devil Quality.Power.Sound

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    Awesome post Terry! Always love seeing you guys showing what a Mustang with some awesome chassis tuning can do!
     
  5. Sky Render

    Sky Render Stig's Retarded Cousin

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    Whiteline FTW.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. OkieSnuffBox

    OkieSnuffBox forum member

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    Don't care about how to buy a Mustang the right way, I picked up my Track Pack GT 2 days ago, buy I am interested in the Track Use article.

    Terry, will you also differentiate between say a mostly DD car that sees a few HPDE events, to an HPDE/Weekend toy, or just a hardcore build?
     
  7. martin_nj

    martin_nj czesc!

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    great stuff, good read and i don't think it was too "buy our stuff" sounding at all.

    my experience with the '13 base 13" brakes was fade on lap 1 corner 1 at NJMP

    I took it 100% stock 235 all seasons and all to lightning just to feel it out and see how goofy it would be.

    two laps under double yellow with the org i ran under to get everyone's brains sorted in the right direction and then green. ran it up to 125mph and then attempted to brake. nearly put my foot through the floor - the pedal was a complete sloppy mess

    since then i did fluid and pads but that didn't work out very well so i'll try again for next year

    i'm not going to give up on the 13" just yet! (even though 100% of forum members agree i should)
     
  8. 5.0_SD

    5.0_SD forum member

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    Terry, we spoke by email the other day...very much looking forward to hearing how you will solve the AST "dilemma" and the solution you will come up with for it. All of this is a very nice and informative read.

    Bill

    PS to all...no I will not divulge what the "AST dilemma" is...if Terry wants to tell you, I'll let him...it is NOT that big a deal IMHO.
     
  9. DRock

    DRock Senior Member

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    sweet guys look forward to seeing more here
     
  10. Mike K

    Mike K WANNA BE FAST

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    Very nice write up. Good luck fine tuning it and whatever else you plan to do with it.
     
  11. Vorshlag-Fair

    Vorshlag-Fair Official Site Vendor

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    Yes, in that Track Build-up article (a separate thread) we will give some tips on various levels of track worthy mods, from casual track day dual-purpose cars to all-out dedicated track cars, as that covers our array of S197 customers.

    [​IMG]

    Our upcoming 2013 GT thread will focus more on a dedicated ESP classed autocross build, which has its own rules, conditions and needs. That car is going to lose every ounce we can find, and will be cut up a bit to fit wider wheels and tires than the 18x11/18x12" wheels and 315mm tires our 2011 GT runs under stock fenders.

    [​IMG]

    If you like these detailed type of build threads we also have ongoing project build threads on a '13 BRZ autocross build, a Pikes Peak STi, our first LS1 V8 Miata, our GRM $2011 Challenge winning BMW E30 LSx, our first BMW Z3M LS1, our first BMW E46 LS1, a '95 Impreza STi AWD swap, a ChumpCar build me and two buddies are doing for fun, and more.

    Thanks,
     
  12. claudermilk

    claudermilk forum member

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    Love your threads and I can't wait to see what you do with the '13.
     
  13. Surfergeek

    Surfergeek forum member

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    Love the threads you have put up elsewhere and glad to see you here. Keep up the good work.
     
  14. speedform

    speedform Junior Member

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    Terry, so glad to see you here posting to S197. After moving from my old Mitsu. Evo TT car to my current '11 GT track rat, having your teams insight into what works and what doesn't is extremely helpful and welcome. I'm still hoping to make the 'stang quicker than my 'old' car. Thinking your r&d can help get there. Thanks!
     
  15. FR500GT

    FR500GT forum member

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    I've read about a few past builds on other forums and its great to finally see you guys over here! Tuned in for more builds/info
     
  16. foolio2k4

    foolio2k4 forum member

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    great thread!

    about that black GT500 front end....who makes the front dive planes. I would love to get a set for my car.
     
  17. OkieSnuffBox

    OkieSnuffBox forum member

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    Terry, maybe I missed it in the C-C.com thread, with you lowering the car approx 2.5" did you do taller balljoints or a bumpsteer kit?
     
  18. Whiskey11

    Whiskey11 SCCA Autoscrosser #23 STU

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    Neither are legal for ESP last I checked. :)
     
  19. Morris

    Morris forum member

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    Good stuff, looking forward to the future posts and articles.
     
  20. OkieSnuffBox

    OkieSnuffBox forum member

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    Ahh good to know.

    I keep reading so much about them and going lower than 1.5" it's a "necessity" I'm curious about his experience with them.

    I want to avoid that particular hassle and that's what is pushing me away from coilovers and really setting the ride height where I want it vs just getting some springs/Konis and calling it good.
     
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