Old school pushrod in an 05 mustang...

jymontoya said:

Surprised to see the Fays2 watts link on a race car. Let us know how that works out for you...

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Curious, what is so surprising about? Honest question here and not me trying to pick a fight. You couldn't pay me to go back to a PHB but my car is no race car.

Fishstyx said:

Ouch. Too bad Steve K didn't find this source. He mentioned that he paid some astronomical sum to get Boss stripes (from Ford) for his 12 GT AI car.

What heads do you have on the 342? I've got Z304DA heads on my 347 and am having a hell so a time finding LT headers that will fit.

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These are Canfield 195 heads, they have raised exhaust ports similar to the Z heads (at least I think the Z heads have raised ports?) or the TW high port heads. These are the 3rd pair of headers I tried, and they actually fit pretty well. They may be a bit restrictive, but they fit.... Depending on what the car weighs when done, and the HP/torque curve of the engine, I may decide to go the full custom route... Other specs on the engine: zero balance forged scat crank, H-beam rods, SRP pistons, very small solid roller cam (our race class is limited HP to weight so I needed a good flat torque curve and somewhat restricted rwhp - the cam looks like an RV cam!), Morel solid lifters, RPM air-gap intake, 1" spacer with adjustable inserts, and a mighty demon 650 carb. Dead nuts simple, reliable build....

Here's a more recent pic with the radiator, fan, and all plumbing done (except for the fuel line and fire system)... Looks like I'm going to have to do some type of custom air filter setup as the carb is pretty close to the cowl...

ohh this looks nice.
might as well say it we need a vid of it running when its finished

I want to do this sooooo bad when my car is paid off. Looks good but as stated we need vids. Lol

Any recent weights with the new drivetrain, before ballast?? Curious to see how the 347+TKO stacks up against the 4.6 4V and 5-spd. Did you happen to weigh the 4.6 motor when it was out, or anything else?

As for Fays2 Watts link question, well... it looks a bit heavier than many other Watts designs for the S197. Maybe that was what the comment was about? Just a guess.

Fair said:

Any recent weights with the new drivetrain, before ballast?? Curious to see how the 347+TKO stacks up against the 4.6 4V and 5-spd. Did you happen to weigh the 4.6 motor when it was out, or anything else?

As for Fays2 Watts link question, well... it looks a bit heavier than many other Watts designs for the S197. Maybe that was what the comment was about? Just a guess.

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28lbs and mostly sprung weight at that. Fair did you happen to weigh the Whiteline before you guys installed it? I figured it was more of a Corner-Carvers "It isn't double sheer!" style comment.

Looks awesome, I'll have to check it out whenever you all get to VIR, my friend's father was one of the head guys with Nasa Mid-Atlantic. He got me hooked when he took me up there.

This is turning out to be a pretty sweet build Ed!

I sent a goody package out to ya about 10 minutes ago sir.

Crazy how small that motor looks in there... and how low it sits.

I'm digging it man...

Whiskey11 said:

28lbs and mostly sprung weight at that. Fair did you happen to weigh the Whiteline before you guys installed it?

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Heh... you;d think we would have weighed all of this before we put it on our car, right? Well, you'd be wrong. In the haste to take the pre-production Whiteline Watts link kit and get it on the car, one day before a test, which was 3 days before the 2012 Solo Nationals, we.... forgot to weigh it all (facepalm!)



I suspect its lighter than 28 pounds, but probably not by much. (edit: this kit is 29 pounds according to Whiteline; you remove 13.3 pounds of OEM bits when you install it)

Whiskey11 said:

I figured it was more of a Corner-Carvers "It isn't double sheer!" style comment.

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Heh, yea I don't think this forum has jackholes that do that here, thankfully. The world doesn't need two corner-carvers!

Fair said:

Any recent weights with the new drivetrain, before ballast?? Curious to see how the 347+TKO stacks up against the 4.6 4V and 5-spd. Did you happen to weigh the 4.6 motor when it was out, or anything else?

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Terry, I'm thinking a stock 4.6 w/ the 3650 trans will be heavier than the pushrod engine and tko600. Unfortunately my scales were not working when I took the 4.6 out. But I sold it, and when I weighed the shipping crate it weighed 810 lbs. That was for a palletized crate, the fully dressed engine, the trans, flywheel/clutch, and the wiring harness. No headers. I doubt my crate weighed much over 100lbs, it was pretty basic. I weighed my boss block 342, fully dressed except for the carb, with the tko600 attached, and LT headers, and it was right at 605lbs. So I'm hoping to be some 100lbs+ lighter with the changes...
The stupid wiring harness weighed 35lbs by itself...



I scaled the car right after I bought it, and it weighed ~3400 with 1/2 tank of fuel and me in it.

Stock 4.6 as driven at VIR 5/12

962 856 53%
834 743 47%

53% 47%

As soon as the new front lower control arms come in (the package from BMR Tech) I'll be able to assembly the front suspension and get it on the scales. Really interested to see what she scales out at...


Then I'll add ballast to get the weight where I want it, depending on how the engine dyno's with the new exhaust...

I've got a set of Moton ClubSports going on the front. Did you drive your car with your shocks on it before you sent them to Moton for the new pistons, etc?? I spoke to one of the guys at Moton a couple of months ago and he said run the struts "as is" for now, then rebuild down the road. I bought them 2nd hand this spring, looking forward to trying them out. Plan to start w/ 600lb springs then go from there. The car came with Ground Control struts and 700's on it, which worked fairly well the one time I had the car out at VIR...

Oh, one pleasant surprise on the build... by swapping out my 05 pinion flange for the one off the fox 8.8 I was able to use my already shortened aluminum driveshaft off the fox. The length was perfect as is... One less thing I had to spend $$ on...

The entire watts link kit is 29 lbs, which includes 8.4 lbs from the differential cover and the associated hardware.

Red_Devil said:

The entire watts link kit is 29 lbs, which includes 8.4 lbs from the differential cover and the associated hardware.

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Wow, so it's actually about the same as the Fays2. It looks like an outstanding bit of kit for a diff mounted Watts.

What does the rear bar weigh do you know off hand?

Hunter the build looks great and I can't wait for the first videos of the final product! I hope you don't mind the minor derailing on my part!

Rear bar weights about 15 lbs as it is a solid spring steel design.

Nice build, 351w is pretty small looking in that engine bay. I'm swapping a coyote into a 1970 mach and it looks the exact oppsite..

On engine weights... we've done a lot of research and the Ford 4.6 3V weighs almost the same as a new 5.0L 4V motor

• 5.0 Coyote motor weight - Fully dressed (minus the A/C compressor) and filled with oil, the new engine weighs in at 430 pounds.
• http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/28/deep-dive-fords-all-new-5-0-v8/
• 5.0 Coyote motor weight - Shipping Weight 430 pounds, includes water pump
• http://www.mustang50magazine.com/te...stang_gt_50_coyote_engine/5_0_tech_specs.html
• That website works in Google Chrome, but not Firefox for some reason.
• 2005 Mustang Spec PDF - 3V 4.6L MOD motor weight - 421lbs dressed engine weight (dry) We found this on a Ford PDF but the link no longer works.

We will get an actual weight + picture the 5.0L in my 2013 GT when we pull it out over the winter.

hunterwiley said:

I've got a set of Moton ClubSports going on the front. Did you drive your car with your shocks on it before you sent them to Moton for the new pistons, etc?? I spoke to one of the guys at Moton a couple of months ago and he said run the struts "as is" for now, then rebuild down the road. I bought them 2nd hand this spring, looking forward to trying them out. Plan to start w/ 600lb springs then go from there. The car came with Ground Control struts and 700's on it, which worked fairly well the one time I had the car out at VIR...

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Nope, we never ran them in the off-the-shelf form. We had the Double Digressive Pistons in the ASTs on our 2011 GT and really liked the improved rebound forces for autocross and track use so the guys at Moton/AST put the Moton version of the DDPs into our Moton Club Sports on day one.



These DDPs make big rebound forces at low velocities if they are turned up a bit, but at full soft still ride pretty well on the street.

The 600# spring you chose for up front sounds like a good starting point. Several of the GRAND AM teams use 450/150 rates, and we really liked 450F/175R for track/autocross/street use.



After we added the Whiteline Watts link kit the car was a lot more hooked up than before. With the Watts, 315 Hoosier A6s, the Motons and the 450/175 rates we saw a LOT of lean in our car at the 2012 SCCA Solo Nationals. Based on that event and the pictures of the body roll we're upping the rates this week to 550F/250R Hypercos. We will run these at the Global Time Attack event this Friday-Saturday and at an autocross on Sunday and see how it feels and how much roll we can see in pics. Also running the Whiteline LCAs and relocation brackets. Check our build thread for the results and analysis next week.

Thanks,

Whiskey11 said:

Curious, what is so surprising about? Honest question here and not me trying to pick a fight. You couldn't pay me to go back to a PHB but my car is no race car.

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No No! No C-C Bullshit here!

I agree on the Watts. I was just surprised to see the more 'street' oriented Fays2 be used on an all out race car when there are other options out there a bit more track oriented. I'm sure it will work great when properly installed. I just personally 'shrug' at the idea of axle clamps, when you're going through the effort to put an old pushrod in the car. But there's many ways to skin a cat! Look forward to seeing the car in action!


Oh wait! BMR front control arms?! Did you see the recent track failure here?

http://s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90711

WARstang said:

Nice build, 351w is pretty small looking in that engine bay. I'm swapping a coyote into a 1970 mach and it looks the exact oppsite..

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Yeah believe it or not, the 3V is just a 1/2 inch wider then the 460 (385 series) motors with a standard wedge head (not Boss or A460). The coyote in a 1970 mach one is going to be a tight fit I believe, as it lists the width of a DOHC as 30 inches.

Fair said:

On engine weights... we've done a lot of research and the Ford 4.6 3V weighs almost the same as a new 5.0L 4V motor

• 5.0 Coyote motor weight - Fully dressed (minus the A/C compressor) and filled with oil, the new engine weighs in at 430 pounds.
• http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/28/deep-dive-fords-all-new-5-0-v8/
• 5.0 Coyote motor weight - Shipping Weight 430 pounds, includes water pump
• http://www.mustang50magazine.com/te...stang_gt_50_coyote_engine/5_0_tech_specs.html
• That website works in Google Chrome, but not Firefox for some reason.
• 2005 Mustang Spec PDF - 3V 4.6L MOD motor weight - 421lbs dressed engine weight (dry) We found this on a Ford PDF but the link no longer works.

We will get an actual weight + picture the 5.0L in my 2013 GT when we pull it out over the winter.

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Here is the page, I scanned it a long time ago while working on my swap. Fully dressed Ford Racing listed the 3V at 435lbs.

jymontoya said:

No No! No C-C Bullshit here!

I agree on the Watts. I was just surprised to see the more 'street' oriented Fays2 be used on an all out race car when there are other options out there a bit more track oriented. I'm sure it will work great when properly installed. I just personally 'shrug' at the idea of axle clamps, when you're going through the effort to put an old pushrod in the car. But there's many ways to skin a cat! Look forward to seeing the car in action!


Oh wait! BMR front control arms?! Did you see the recent track failure here?

http://s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90711

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There are more than a few people pulling good lateral g numbers with the Fays2 units. I am at 1.3ish with no issues (number subject to accuracy of cell phone accelerometers). Reading the reviews on Jim's page there was also a guy that spun his S197 at 90mph and the spin terminated in grass. They said (claimed? ) that the only damage to the Watts unit was a 10° bend in the center bolt and mentioned nothing about the axle clamps. I understand the cautious nature about mounting anything to pinned on axle tubes in these cars but it is safe enough to mount all the control arm mounting points it is safe enough to attach the massive axle clamps used by the Fays2 unit. Just my non professional and worthless opinion!

jymontoya said:

Oh wait! BMR front control arms?! Did you see the recent track failure here?

http://s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90711

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Yep, Steve was kind enough to email me yesterday about the failure. In light of this I am not going to run them on the car, will use the stock ones or the FR500 arms....