F/R S197 Sway-Bar Rates
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zeroescape
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I would love it if manufacturers actually posted this kind of info for their sway bars. At least i can never find it.
Instead of them being rated at force lbs/in. Id rather see the force required for say 5 degrees of deflection at each hole in the arm vs the distance from the center of bushing to each hole.
Its hard to compare apples when manufacturer A and B have same sway bar diameter (not even considering wall thickness yet) but the effective arm length differs.
Ex.
Force lbs required to achieve 5 degrees of twist.
Instead of them being rated at force lbs/in. Id rather see the force required for say 5 degrees of deflection at each hole in the arm vs the distance from the center of bushing to each hole.
Its hard to compare apples when manufacturer A and B have same sway bar diameter (not even considering wall thickness yet) but the effective arm length differs.
Ex.
Force lbs required to achieve 5 degrees of twist.
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Correct.
I share our Sway Bar and spring rates all of the time.
I am almost done finishing up the final design of our new bars, and they have some pretty stiff rates at the shortest lever lengths.....so I was just wanting to see if anyone out there is actually utilizing anything in the same range.
Our front bar has 5 positions, and the rear bar has 4.
We went pretty stiff on the rear bar due to coming in-board on the mounting points.
I actually figured that this thread would not be very popular, since no one seems to know their rates - and many companies do not advertise them, nor share them.
I wonder if anyone ever figured out what their WL bar rates are. I know there was a thread a while back where people were wanting to know.
I share our Sway Bar and spring rates all of the time.
I am almost done finishing up the final design of our new bars, and they have some pretty stiff rates at the shortest lever lengths.....so I was just wanting to see if anyone out there is actually utilizing anything in the same range.
Our front bar has 5 positions, and the rear bar has 4.
We went pretty stiff on the rear bar due to coming in-board on the mounting points.
I actually figured that this thread would not be very popular, since no one seems to know their rates - and many companies do not advertise them, nor share them.
I wonder if anyone ever figured out what their WL bar rates are. I know there was a thread a while back where people were wanting to know.
Since you're designing bars for production, do you have the equipment to measure the rates, or know someone who does?
Someone presented these as correct; for a starting point but no "rates":
Front Sway Rear Sway Front Springs Rear Springs
Base GT
34.6 mm 24mm 123 lbs. 156 lbs.
Brembo
34.6 mm 24mm 131 lbs. 167 lbs.
Boss 302
34.6 mm 25mm 148 lbs. 186 lbs.
Lag Sec
34.6 mm 26mm 137 lbs. 191 lbs.
-------------------------------------
Someone else, I disremember who (but thanks) else:
I got this from Sam Strano's site. He sells whiteline, but didn't list the stiffness of them. Might not have the data...
Can Whiteline and BMR and others pipe in here? Maybe stuff like this can be posted in a sticky...
Sam, I hope it's ok to publish this from your site.
Comparison vs. Ford OEM:
FRONT:
Strano Performance 35mm hollow: 472, 547, 642 lbs/in
Ford 34mm hollow (2005-2010 GT): 385 lbs/in
Ford 34.6mm hollow (2011+ GT, Brembo, Boss): 436 lbs/in
REAR:
Strano Performance Parts 8419 1" tubular: 162, 185, 225 lbs/in
Ford 20mm Solid (2005-2010 GT): 96 lbs/in
Ford 22mm Solid (2011+ V-6 standard): 147 lbs/in
Ford 24mm Solid (2011+ 5.0, GT500): 193 lbs/in
Ford 25mm Solid (Boss 302): 250 lbs/in
Ford 26mm Solid (Boss 302 Laguna Seca): 275 lbs/in
...
The BMR-SB023 Rear Sway-Bar is: 146lbs/in
The BMR-SB022 Front Sway-Bar is: 441lbs/in - 506lbs/in - 587lbs/in
I am curious to know the dimensions of the Strano Front bar. Ours is 35mm....with a wall thickness of .219". The lever arms (torsion bars) are 13", 14" and 15" in length.So...what's the range of the Whiteline and others?
...
My bar is stiffer.... I use a .250" wall on front. Rear bar I use a .156" wall. Both are 3-way adjustable.
__________________
Sam Strano
Strano Performance Parts
www.stranoparts.com
814-849-3450
9 of 14 SCCA National Championships in S197 Mustangs! We race, we win... and we drive our cars on the roads in Western PA, even in the snow.
...
Nobody asked, but here are the specs (sort of) on the Hotchkis bars
Quote:
Specs:
1.5" (38.1mm) Tubular Front Bar, 4 Way Adjustable.
1" (25.4mm) Tubular, 3 Way Adjustable
Weights (Bar Only) Front 13lbs Rear 9 lbs
Specs vs GT 500 Stock
Hotchkis Front:
Hole 1: 45% stiffer than GT500
Hole 2: 65% stiffer than GT500
Hole 3: 85% stiffer than GT500
Hole 4: 105% stiffer than GT500
Hotchkis Rear:
Hole 1: 5% stiffer than GT500
Hole 2: 25% stiffer than GT500
Hole 3: 45% stiffer than GT500
Specs vs 2011 5.0L
Hotchkis Front:
Hole 1: 45% stiffer than 5.0L
Hole 2: 65% stiffer than 5.0L
Hole 3: 85% stiffer than 5.0L
Hole 4: 105% stiffer than 5.0L
Hotchkis Rear:
HP setting 1 = 120% stiffer than 20mm rear
HP setting 2 = 160% stiffer than 20mm rear
HP setting 3 = 200% stiffer than 20mm rear
---------------------------------------------
I have to guess my H&R rear bar at 26mm can't be too much different from the Laguna Seca bar.
Front Sway Rear Sway Front Springs Rear Springs
Base GT
34.6 mm 24mm 123 lbs. 156 lbs.
Brembo
34.6 mm 24mm 131 lbs. 167 lbs.
Boss 302
34.6 mm 25mm 148 lbs. 186 lbs.
Lag Sec
34.6 mm 26mm 137 lbs. 191 lbs.
-------------------------------------
Someone else, I disremember who (but thanks) else:
I got this from Sam Strano's site. He sells whiteline, but didn't list the stiffness of them. Might not have the data...
Can Whiteline and BMR and others pipe in here? Maybe stuff like this can be posted in a sticky...
Sam, I hope it's ok to publish this from your site.
Comparison vs. Ford OEM:
FRONT:
Strano Performance 35mm hollow: 472, 547, 642 lbs/in
Ford 34mm hollow (2005-2010 GT): 385 lbs/in
Ford 34.6mm hollow (2011+ GT, Brembo, Boss): 436 lbs/in
REAR:
Strano Performance Parts 8419 1" tubular: 162, 185, 225 lbs/in
Ford 20mm Solid (2005-2010 GT): 96 lbs/in
Ford 22mm Solid (2011+ V-6 standard): 147 lbs/in
Ford 24mm Solid (2011+ 5.0, GT500): 193 lbs/in
Ford 25mm Solid (Boss 302): 250 lbs/in
Ford 26mm Solid (Boss 302 Laguna Seca): 275 lbs/in
...
The BMR-SB023 Rear Sway-Bar is: 146lbs/in
The BMR-SB022 Front Sway-Bar is: 441lbs/in - 506lbs/in - 587lbs/in
I am curious to know the dimensions of the Strano Front bar. Ours is 35mm....with a wall thickness of .219". The lever arms (torsion bars) are 13", 14" and 15" in length.So...what's the range of the Whiteline and others?
...
My bar is stiffer.... I use a .250" wall on front. Rear bar I use a .156" wall. Both are 3-way adjustable.
__________________
Sam Strano
Strano Performance Parts
www.stranoparts.com
814-849-3450
9 of 14 SCCA National Championships in S197 Mustangs! We race, we win... and we drive our cars on the roads in Western PA, even in the snow.
...
Nobody asked, but here are the specs (sort of) on the Hotchkis bars
Quote:
Specs:
1.5" (38.1mm) Tubular Front Bar, 4 Way Adjustable.
1" (25.4mm) Tubular, 3 Way Adjustable
Weights (Bar Only) Front 13lbs Rear 9 lbs
Specs vs GT 500 Stock
Hotchkis Front:
Hole 1: 45% stiffer than GT500
Hole 2: 65% stiffer than GT500
Hole 3: 85% stiffer than GT500
Hole 4: 105% stiffer than GT500
Hotchkis Rear:
Hole 1: 5% stiffer than GT500
Hole 2: 25% stiffer than GT500
Hole 3: 45% stiffer than GT500
Specs vs 2011 5.0L
Hotchkis Front:
Hole 1: 45% stiffer than 5.0L
Hole 2: 65% stiffer than 5.0L
Hole 3: 85% stiffer than 5.0L
Hole 4: 105% stiffer than 5.0L
Hotchkis Rear:
HP setting 1 = 120% stiffer than 20mm rear
HP setting 2 = 160% stiffer than 20mm rear
HP setting 3 = 200% stiffer than 20mm rear
---------------------------------------------
I have to guess my H&R rear bar at 26mm can't be too much different from the Laguna Seca bar.
I'll share some updated info tomorrow in regards to our bar rates, and also provide a solid works snap shot of the rear bar we will be releasing here soon. We've been testing bars and springs for quite some time now. Fun stuff.
kcbrown, I'll reply to your question a little more in depth tomorrow.
kcbrown, I'll reply to your question a little more in depth tomorrow.
Whiskey11
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Ooo this could be interesting.
So has your S197 front radiator support with swaybar brackets been tweaked to withstand the added stresses of a heavier swaybar? The added bar rate might work well with softer springs for those looking for more of a compromise. I'll be interested to see what becomes of your front and rear bars and how you guys pair your whole suspension setup together.
zeroescape
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They revised the front radiator support like 5 to 6 months ago.
You can find it here. http://bmrsuspension.com/?page=products&productid=1053
I really like BMR's radiator support. How much weight does that save over the factory piece?
So, anyways, I was going to post up a solid works shot of our rear bar, but found a prototype laying in the R&D facility - so I grabbed it and snapped a quick shot.
This is a very solid example of K.I.S.S - except it's hollow
Hole 1 - 272lb/in
Hole 2 - 319lb/in
Hole 3 - 378lb/in
Hole 4 - 457lb/in
This is a very solid example of K.I.S.S - except it's hollow
Hole 1 - 272lb/in
Hole 2 - 319lb/in
Hole 3 - 378lb/in
Hole 4 - 457lb/in
[strike]Based on the above, I now know what my ask of BMR is as regards sway bar rates: could you make the rear bar so that its lower rate setting is less than that of the Ford 24mm bar and its higher rate setting is greater than that of the Ford 26mm bar?
Which is to say, make its rate range overlap and extend, at both ends, the range covered by the Ford rear bars? It seems that none of the other aftermarket rear bars do that.[/strike]
ETA: nevermind. Looks like that decision has already been made, and the rates start at the Laguna Seca rate and go much higher. I like!
Last edited:
It is definitely possible.
We went slightly below the 26mm bar, and well above.
To be honest - if someone tells me they want a "soft" or "softer" rear bar, I would tell them to use a variety of bars from the 2005-2010 Mustangs, or the 22mm bar on a 2011+ V6.
Why the hell would you want a rear bar softer than the stock one?!
Oh - forgot to mention, that bar pictured above is 7lbs lighter than the factory bar. 
It really depends on the set-up. I have quite a few customers running some pretty soft bars out back. Once you get to a certain roll stiffness - trying to add additional resistance, provides diminishing returns.
The majority of our customer base, will benefit from stiffer F/R bars.
We have a few sets of different springs coming soon (various rates) where people can basically "build" their springs through us....and those rates are not going to go high enough to disable a factory style (aftermarket) damper from working with it, nor will they be stiff enough to ignore aggressive bar rates.
It really depends on the set-up. I have quite a few customers running some pretty soft bars out back. Once you get to a certain roll stiffness - trying to add additional resistance, provides diminishing returns.
The majority of our customer base, will benefit from stiffer F/R bars.
We have a few sets of different springs coming soon (various rates) where people can basically "build" their springs through us....and those rates are not going to go high enough to disable a factory style (aftermarket) damper from working with it, nor will they be stiff enough to ignore aggressive bar rates.
sheizasosay
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Kelly is it my imagination or is your front roll bar target range very low? That info FrankS put up:
Ford 34mm hollow (2005-2010 GT): 385 lbs/in
Ford 34.6mm hollow (2011+ GT, Brembo, Boss): 436 lbs/in
which is factory
vs
your new front bar rates of:
Hole 1 - 272lb/in
Hole 2 - 319lb/in
Hole 3 - 378lb/in
Hole 4 - 457lb/in
In my opinion, those rates would be suitable for someone who is running coilovers who has access to high spring rates and set their car up with the hard spring/soft bar combo.
For those on struts, with less rate, I think your old bars would be more viable for the front. The old BMR bars have decent rate on them for non-coilover folks, so that move makes sense for BMR's lineup.
Ford 34mm hollow (2005-2010 GT): 385 lbs/in
Ford 34.6mm hollow (2011+ GT, Brembo, Boss): 436 lbs/in
which is factory
vs
your new front bar rates of:
Hole 1 - 272lb/in
Hole 2 - 319lb/in
Hole 3 - 378lb/in
Hole 4 - 457lb/in
In my opinion, those rates would be suitable for someone who is running coilovers who has access to high spring rates and set their car up with the hard spring/soft bar combo.
For those on struts, with less rate, I think your old bars would be more viable for the front. The old BMR bars have decent rate on them for non-coilover folks, so that move makes sense for BMR's lineup.
sheizasosay
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