Whipple Supercharger Installation - Major Issues

xvesnfpu · Jun 16, 2007

Look, I know there's other threads on belt slip, but I want to hear the answer to my question as it pertains to my current issue after my Whipple supercharger installation.

What are ALL of the symptoms of belt slip, whether mild or extreme?

Here's the scenario, after about an hour of driving, with a few wide-open-throttle runs, and otherwise normal driving behavior I experience some issues. Specifically, I lose all boost, loss of the audible supercharger whine, and the problem persists and worsen to the point that I may develop engine hesitation, rough idle, stalling (only once), and even a check engine light. If I let the engine cool overnight and disconnect the battery for a short time, the check engine light and symptoms seem to disappear but reoccur within an hour of driving.

I don't know what belt slip sounds like, and trying to describe it is hopeless. Without an audio clip, I just don't feel knowledgeable enough to confirm the noises I hear are belt slip. I did destroy a belt the first couple hundred miles after installation, and am now on my 3rd belt. The current belt was replaced out of desperation. I have one additional belt just in case. The best I can offer is that when the problems become apparent, the audible supercharge whine disappears, and a "noise" of some kind seems to appear. Yes, I have belt dust everywhere, but so do others, and none have complained of the issues I'm experiencing.

I have tried varying the position to the adjustable idling pulley. I've positioned the belt tensioner to its extreme and tightened the adjustable idling pulley to its extrme, and I've positioned the belt tensioner to its midpoint and the adjustable idling pulley to its midpoint as well.

I do not have the capability to verify the code on the engine light just yet. I plan to purchase a Diablo or SPC flash device in the next week.

Originally I thought belt slip only led to an audible noise, but can the problem worsen to the point that the engine experiences the symptoms I've described?

Is there a way I can confirm I'm experiencing belt slip and nothing more?

I'm lost at this point, and without someone more knowledgeable than me, the problem just wont go away.

Sasquatch · Jun 16, 2007

sechmura said:
Look, I know there's other threads on belt slip, but I want to hear the answer to my question as it pertains to my current issue after my Whipple supercharger installation.

What are ALL of the symptoms of belt slip, whether mild or extreme?

Here's the scenario, after about an hour of driving, with a few wide-open-throttle runs, and otherwise normal driving behavior I experience some issues. Specifically, I lose all boost, loss of the audible supercharger whine, and the problem persists and worsen to the point that I may develop engine hesitation, rough idle, stalling (only once), and even a check engine light. If I let the engine cool overnight and disconnect the battery for a short time, the check engine light and symptoms seem to disappear but reoccur within an hour of driving.

I don't know what belt slip sounds like, and trying to describe it is hopeless. Without an audio clip, I just don't feel knowledgeable enough to confirm the noises I hear are belt slip. I did destroy a belt the first couple hundred miles after installation, and am now on my 3rd belt. The current belt was replaced out of desperation. I have one additional belt just in case. The best I can offer is that when the problems become apparent, the audible supercharge whine disappears, and a "noise" of some kind seems to appear. Yes, I have belt dust everywhere, but so do others, and none have complained of the issues I'm experiencing.

I have tried varying the position to the adjustable idling pulley. I've positioned the belt tensioner to its extreme and tightened the adjustable idling pulley to its extrme, and I've positioned the belt tensioner to its midpoint and the adjustable idling pulley to its midpoint as well.

I do not have the capability to verify the code on the engine light just yet. I plan to purchase a Diablo or SPC flash device in the next week.

Originally I thought belt slip only led to an audible noise, but can the problem worsen to the point that the engine experiences the symptoms I've described?

Is there a way I can confirm I'm experiencing belt slip and nothing more?

I'm lost at this point, and without someone more knowledgeable than me, the problem just wont go away.

What year is your car? HO kit or not? Post pics of your belt routing and dust. I have lost a few belts but don't have the dust issues others have had. Look at Kimmers post and describe if your belt dust is as much his.

Sam

xvesnfpu · Jun 16, 2007

What year is your car? HO kit or not? Post pics of your belt routing and dust. I have lost a few belts but don't have the dust issues others have had. Look at Kimmers post and describe if your belt dust is as much his.

2007 Mustang GT, installed the 10 PSI kit with intercooler.

I'll take and post some pictures in the morning when the light is better. As far as routing, I followed the Whipple install manual, but either way I'll include a picture to confirm. I'll also compare my dust with Kimmers. I'd barely know how to operate a camera at this hour, as I've dranken myself into a stupor over this!

Sasquatch · Jun 16, 2007

sechmura said:
2007 Mustang GT, installed the 10 PSI kit with intercooler.

I'll take and post some pictures in the morning when the light is better. As far as routing, I followed the Whipple install manual, but either way I'll include a picture to confirm. I'll also compare my dust with Kimmers. I'd barely know how to operate a camera at this hour, as I've dranken myself into a stupor over this!

I hear ya!! Hang in there we will figure this out. You are now the third 07, that I know of, to have a belt issue. At some point, Whipple will quit telling us they do not have a belt issue. Send the pics tomorrow amd I'll see if I can do anything for you.

Sam

cekim · Jun 17, 2007

while you wait for the tuner to read the codes - you can just stop at Autozone (or others if they do the same) and they will pull the code for you...

All you need is the code number(s) (there may be more than one) and you can fill in the blanks using on-line resources...

Even heavy belt slip shouldn't throw a code until the belt comes off at which point your charging system will start complaining...

light belt slip may make no noise at all - you feell it/see it in the loss of boost and you find dust under the hood.

mild/heavy belt slip may or may not make noise depending on the belt - some types of belts squeel loudly when they slip - others do not...

I have a hunch you have more than one issue - seems the 07's have some issue with belts that is not yet understood and I worry about that code and your temp dependant behavior. When the intake air temp (IAT) gets high, the PCM will pull timing and the car can loose siginficant power depending on how much timing is pulled. With temp dependance and the code, I would pull those codes ASAP and start checking:

1. intercooler pump running?
2. intercooler fluid level alright?
3. IAT wiring ok? (I don't know what whipple does with that - other blowers re-wire the IAT to a sensor after the compressor - I keep reading odd things about what whipple is doing with the IAT sensor)
4. belt dust (black rubber dust particularly around the alternator
5. pulley alignment - creative use of laser pointer pens comes in handy there...

xvesnfpu · Jun 17, 2007

cekim said:
1. intercooler pump running?
2. intercooler fluid level alright?
3. IAT wiring ok? (I don't know what whipple does with that - other blowers re-wire the IAT to a sensor after the compressor - I keep reading odd things about what whipple is doing with the IAT sensor)
4. belt dust (black rubber dust particularly around the alternator
5. pulley alignment - creative use of laser pointer pens comes in handy there...

1. The electric water pump is pumping fluid fine.
2. I keep having to refill my intercooler reservoir every day. There is no apparent leak in the intercooler system. Also, there appears to be brown/black floaties in the coolant. Take a look at the included pictures. I assumed it was powder coating or something from the Whipple heat exchanger, but your guess is as good as mine. I'm pretending it's nothing important, but perhaps others can chime in.
3. Rewiring in the engine bay is limited to splicing and extending cable length. I assume the MAF/IAT are integrated as there is no other sensor located between on the intake tube.
4. Take a look at the included pics for belt dust.
5. I'll have to do a little more research to determine if everything is aligned. I've have little knowledge on the subject.

MrClean · Jun 17, 2007

Can't help with your SC issue, but I gotta say that car looks BAD with the gt500 front fascia, lowered stance, and black bullits!

don_w · Jun 17, 2007

sechmura said:
2. I keep having to refill my intercooler reservoir every day. There is no apparent leak in the intercooler system. Also, there appears to be brown/black floaties in the coolant.

That doesn't sound very good to me. If you have to refill it, it's got to be going somewhere. I don't have a Whipple, but I've never added a drop to mine (almost a year and 13,000 miles).

G.T · Jun 17, 2007

i also have quite a bit of belt dust on the blower pulley and only there.
no noticable belt slip however, she's been running constant 10PSI for a couple months now.

Do NOT ignore your IC leak.
i suggest you hoist up the car, and turn on ignition (enough to get the IC pump going) to see where the coolant is going.
in my case i had a leak in the heat exchanger which i'm glad i noticed in time before i fried my engine :S

p.s: the crap in the IC tank doesn't look good.. the only part i can think of this coming from is the heat exchanger, although i don't think it's painted or powder coated on the inside :S

xvesnfpu · Jun 17, 2007

i had a leak in the heat exchanger

Where precisely was the leak? Was it on the front or back surface? Was it at a weld, in an area encompassing the fins? I know I can't ignore the coolant issue, but it just seems like if it was leaking that it would be obvious. Apparently this isn't the case, and I'll take a more comprehensive look.

i don't think it's painted or powder coated on the inside

I did remove two plugs during installation, one plug at the inlet and another at the outlet, and I assume these are there for the powder coating application.

Does anyone have any pictures of the underside of the compressor? During installation, you separate the compressor from the intake manifold. I was in such a hurry that I didn't bother to investigate the inner workings. I assume the coolant flow is independent of the compressor screws, so even if the intake manifold and compressor weren't mating properly, coolant shouldn't flow into the intake manifold correct?

G.T · Jun 17, 2007

it took me a month to notice the leak, as the wind deflector below the radiator was collecting the leaked coolant so it was always dry under the car

the leak was in bottom driver side of the front surface somewhere between the fins.
as a temporary measure, i sent it to Serck Service, they pressure tested it and found 6 leaks in one row around the same area (less than 1 square inch)
they attributed it to air bubbles in the aluminum which eventually popped i.e manufacturing defect.

xvesnfpu · Jun 17, 2007

G.T said:
as a temporary measure, i sent it to Serck Service, they pressure tested it

I live a 1/4 mile from a radiator repair shop, I should take the intercooler heat exchanger up there and ask if they can offer a pressure test. At this point I'm so uncertain of the problem, I'll pay anything to get things working problem free.

they attributed it to air bubbles in the aluminum which eventually popped i.e manufacturing defect

Did you have the heat exchanger replaced or repaired?

G.T · Jun 17, 2007

i repaired the heat exchanger for the time being.
mind ya, i'm all the way across the globe (Dubai).. sending the faulty H/E to whipple and waiting for the replacement to ship over would have taken ages.

if i was you, i'd remove the lower air deflector (5-7 screws), lift the car, and run the IC pump.. sooner or later you should see coolant dripping, check all hoses, pump, heat exchanger, etc.
if you still don't see it, then there's a slight chance the intercooler core below the compressor is leaking.. i really hope that's not the case, cuz that'd be a pain in the ass

cekim · Jun 17, 2007

sechmura said:
1. The electric water pump is pumping fluid fine.
2. I keep having to refill my intercooler reservoir every day. There is no apparent leak in the intercooler system. Also, there appears to be brown/black floaties in the coolant. Take a look at the included pictures. I assumed it was powder coating or something from the Whipple heat exchanger, but your guess is as good as mine. I'm pretending it's nothing important, but perhaps others can chime in.

As others have said - that is not something to ignore - needs to be addressed ASAP - sounds like you are on the path to doing so...

Stop somewhere and get those PCM DTC's while you are out. They might be a red herring, or they might give you some insight as to what is going on, but don't wait to find out...

Belt slippage shouldn't cause DTC's (anything is possible - but IMO it is something else causing them)

3. Rewiring in the engine bay is limited to splicing and extending cable length. I assume the MAF/IAT are integrated as there is no other sensor located between on the intake tube.

that would be the "funny" thing that I have read about whipple doing with IAT - measuring IAT prior to the compressor is problematic as it assumes a known addition of heat by the compressor (that is if the intercooler isn't functioning correctly, it can't measure that in the form of IAT increases and only the knock sensors are left to pull timing when things heat up unexpectedly).

4. Take a look at the included pics for belt dust.

Looks like Kimmer's situation - rubbing on the alternator - don't have a solution other than check pulley alignment and keep after Whipple on a potential 07 belt issue...

KIMMER · Jun 17, 2007

The black particles in the IC worry me. My fluid is nice and clean with the exception of looking like orange juice from the water wetter...lol. Mine has been staying the same level and I don't have any particles in the fluid. Is is possible the pump is taking a crap and those are parts of the pump plastic/internals?

MrClean · Jun 17, 2007

Could this issue be related to why KB is testing the SC on the newer iteration of the '07 model year? I can't remember if it was this Mustang Source where I read that or on this one...

xvesnfpu · Jun 17, 2007

KIMMER said:
The black particles in the IC worry me?

I should have emphasized that the particles appear more like droplets of some kind as opposed to small/hard particles such as plastic/metal. In a normal cooling system, oil droplets in the coolant would indicate a blow head gasket (for example), but this case is "physically" different as the oil in the engine is not running through/around the supercharger intercooling system?!?! Also, the oil in the supercharger did not drop and remained in the middle of the sight window during all my problems. I did replace the 4" extension that is between the supercharger and pulley because the seal around the pulley hub was popping out, but the problems I'm experiencing in this post have existed before and after I replace the extension.

xvesnfpu · Jun 17, 2007

while you wait for the tuner to read the codes - you can just stop at Autozone

By the way, I did stop at AutoZone after your comment, but apparently their code reader cannot read "stored" codes. Apparently there is a difference between a stored code that is no longer displaying on the dash and an active code displaying on the dash. Whenever the check engine light appears, I unplug the battery and let the engine cool. I will order an SPC device with 24 hour shipping on Monday to help everyone who's looking into my problem.

cekim · Jun 17, 2007

sechmura said:
I unplug the battery and let the engine cool.

Yeah - if you pull the battery it is lost...

Whatever you order (i.e. diablo, SCT, etc...) won't be able to read it either (until it happens again)...

KIMMER · Jun 17, 2007

If they are black droplets, then maybe the cooler inside the intake that is mounted to the underside of the s/c has a hole and you are sucking some engine oil into the system that goes into the incoming airstream from the pcv system. I have a feeling you are going to have to unbolt the s/c from the intake and flip it over to take a look. I hope like hell i'm wrong, but that is the only spot dirty oil can be put into the i/c stream.

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