need stereo help

GI Joe · Feb 9, 2010

OK my sons mustang has stock 500 head unit all door speakes and we added to the rear a treo 12"SS and Class D (801 D) amp with a sealed box we made ....and he is not happy. He want a screen and more LOUD...more bass
Where do I go from here. The head unit will be replaced withthe screen. Do I need to replace all door speakers? Should I. Can I use the existing wiring wiring? How many subs? Is there a sub/box that fits well in our mustangs? Is his 800w amp good enough.
Help me build a nice system. Budget is $2000 with screen included. Probaly looking at about $500 in the screen like the pioneer. ...so like $1500 for the rest. Put me a package together
Thanks
GI Joe

LAK3RS · Feb 10, 2010

Treo is an unfamiliar brand that most don't know about, but they make some pretty nice products. With the money you have, you will not be able to give him the best system possible.

Treo makes some amazing coax speakers that will work perfect for what you are doing. To stay cheap, just get the front two. The rear aren't that important anyway. Prices will start jumping little by little if you go with some components front and rear, and upgrade the wiring. To be honest, one sub should be perfectly fine if you put the proper wattage on it. I'll have to find out, as I haven't messed with Treo in a few months, but it's either the SSX or RSX models, I think. The thing is that the 800w on the 12" you have should be pleasing him, then again my friend had 4 12's, and that didn't even satisfy him.

With the whole loudness aspect of things, he is wanting more bass, but are the stock speakers not up to par with him? The stock speakers these come with are quite "loud", and a lot of aftermarket speakers offer better sound quality over loudness. Now with boxes/enclosures, generally custom boxes can offer the best opportunity for bass quality, and give it the proper air space needed. Of course that's if it is done right. For a pre made enclosure, you'll need to stick with JL. They make a mean Stealthbox that includes a 13w6. The thing about that is the fact the money talks, and it gets expensive real quick.

I'm rambling on for no reason, and it's probably getting you no where. I'll figure something out, and put something together for you. Do you prefer it to be Treo, or can it be what ever will get the job done?

For quick measure, I'm thinking this right now...

- Treo coax speakers for the front
- 2 or 4 channel amp for the speakers

To be honest, the damn 800w amp should make that 12" go boom boom to please the average person....figure out what he's really wanting from this.

Charlie Sheen · Feb 10, 2010

Shaker 1k FTMFW.

LAK3RS · Feb 10, 2010

Mister Roper said:
Shaker 1k FTMFW.

LOL. With the acception of my car having a spoiler when I got it, I was fortunate enough to not have to put up with the 500 or 1000 and get everything else on it as I wanted it from the factory! BTW, the 1000 is probably the best factory sound system......EVER!!!! :lol2:

GI Joe · Feb 10, 2010

LAK3RS said:
Treo is an unfamiliar brand that most don't know about, but they make some pretty nice products. With the money you have, you will not be able to give him the best system possible.

Treo makes some amazing coax speakers that will work perfect for what you are doing. To stay cheap, just get the front two. The rear aren't that important anyway. Prices will start jumping little by little if you go with some components front and rear, and upgrade the wiring. To be honest, one sub should be perfectly fine if you put the proper wattage on it. I'll have to find out, as I haven't messed with Treo in a few months, but it's either the SSX or RSX models, I think. The thing is that the 800w on the 12" you have should be pleasing him, then again my friend had 4 12's, and that didn't even satisfy him.

With the whole loudness aspect of things, he is wanting more bass, but are the stock speakers not up to par with him? The stock speakers these come with are quite "loud", and a lot of aftermarket speakers offer better sound quality over loudness. Now with boxes/enclosures, generally custom boxes can offer the best opportunity for bass quality, and give it the proper air space needed. Of course that's if it is done right. For a pre made enclosure, you'll need to stick with JL. They make a mean Stealthbox that includes a 13w6. The thing about that is the fact the money talks, and it gets expensive real quick.

I'm rambling on for no reason, and it's probably getting you no where. I'll figure something out, and put something together for you. Do you prefer it to be Treo, or can it be what ever will get the job done?

For quick measure, I'm thinking this right now...

- Treo coax speakers for the front
- 2 or 4 channel amp for the speakers

To be honest, the damn 800w amp should make that 12" go boom boom to please the average person....figure out what he's really wanting from this.

OK what we were thinking was the fronts are subs right? So maybe the rear is cancelling the bass some as the intersect. We too thought remove the front door bass speakers. The amp is clipping at 75 volume...which may be normal or may be due to how I wired it. I used the PAC adapter to make the rear speaker work. That basically took the rear deck speaker inputs and converted them to a pre amp out put for the big 12" and amp. ( I think I said that right) lol
We made the box. So a better box would be a good investment. He said its not so much loud volume but MORE BASS is the issue. He ask "How can you get a box to fit two 12's in the back of a mustang". I think thats where we are headed. The budget is not fixed...can do a little more.
He also think he needs another amp. Could he keep this one and get another MTX amp? One driving each sub?
He is considering kicker L5, alpine type R's, R/E, SSX, and elemental design. What ever he gets he probably will get 2 alike and sell the treo.
So let look at this idea...
front tweeters ( if needed replace, Thoughts?)
front coaxles
2 amps
box
2 subs
screen
So what will that cost. Thats a little beter direction..

GI Joe · Feb 10, 2010

for example heres a promotion for amp and sub X 2 = $1000

good? Bad?

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_21&products_id=759

LAK3RS · Feb 10, 2010

GI Joe said:
OK what we were thinking was the fronts are subs right? So maybe the rear is cancelling the bass some as the intersect. We too thought remove the front door bass speakers. The amp is clipping at 75 volume...which may be normal or may be due to how I wired it. I used the PAC adapter to make the rear speaker work. That basically took the rear deck speaker inputs and converted them to a pre amp out put for the big 12" and amp. ( I think I said that right) lol
We made the box. So a better box would be a good investment. He said its not so much loud volume but MORE BASS is the issue. He ask "How can you get a box to fit two 12's in the back of a mustang". I think thats where we are headed. The budget is not fixed...can do a little more.
He also think he needs another amp. Could he keep this one and get another MTX amp? One driving each sub?
He is considering kicker L5, alpine type R's, R/E, SSX, and elemental design. What ever he gets he probably will get 2 alike and sell the treo.
So let look at this idea...
front tweeters ( if needed replace, Thoughts?)
front coaxles
2 amps
box
2 subs
screen
So what will that cost. Thats a little beter direction..

I forgot all about this man. I just got home! I'll head up to the shop in the morning and see what I can find for you that will work perfect. I'm tired, and ready for bed.

GI Joe · Feb 10, 2010

LAK3RS said:
I forgot all about this man. I just got home! I'll head up to the shop in the morning and see what I can find for you that will work perfect. I'm tired, and ready for bed.

He's telling me these 13" E/Designs special price each will take 2.29 cu ft ( 2 cu ft for 12s) and I just cant find a box that will fit that in this car. I found some on ebay that have about 1.27 total ft but that nowhere near enough for these 2 speakers. He seems to have given up on being able to put anything in his trunk and is willing to make the entire trunk a damned speaker box..lol

asilver2001gt · Feb 10, 2010

ok...do i need to talk with him this weekend??? we can sell the mustang and the 20's (i got dibs) buy an old cutlass with the money from the 20's. get some 24's and a stereo with the money from the mustang...haha

LAK3RS · Feb 11, 2010

GI Joe said:
for example heres a promotion for amp and sub X 2 = $1000

good? Bad?

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_21&products_id=759

I'm just big on products that I'm familiar with personally. So I'd say no, but with car audio the one brand that no one knows about, or is not familiar with could be that damn good. To name a few, Memphis makes some pretty good stuff and it's got an amazing warranty to back it up! Of course, Treo is another that I like.

EagleStroker · Feb 11, 2010

May be out of the budget, but building a box like this would be pretty sick:

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/te...mustang_audio_system/subwoofer_enclosure.html

GI Joe · Feb 11, 2010

EagleStroker said:
May be out of the budget, but building a box like this would be pretty sick:

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/te...mustang_audio_system/subwoofer_enclosure.html

man thats nice

EagleStroker · Feb 11, 2010

GI Joe said:
man thats nice

Your telling me. I called for a price on that box, a mere $800 plus shipping :chainsaw:

I think I'll learn how to use MDF first.

bigwilly43729 · Feb 12, 2010

He could make a spare tire well enclosure and raise the floor a couple of inches to accomodate those subs. That ED sub has a 10" mounting depth (which is absurd by the way). The spare tire well will give you about 7" of mounting depth at it's lowest points and you can raise the floor about 3.5" to make it flush with that hump in the back. Give or take, you would have your 10" of depth and I'm sure that well should give you the airspace you need.

Or if you know how to fiberglass, you can make one hell of a box exactly the way you want it. It's not that difficult; it just takes some patience and effort. For that ED sub, I'd make a box similar to this one, but I'd glass the sides so that it had a nice tight fit. Even if you don't know how to glass, you can find 100 different tutorials on the web.

I'd scour the web for ideas, even if the car isn't a mustang. I have spent hours and hours researching ideas for what I wanted in my car and am very close to completion of my project. I like shops, but I'd rather buy the tools and materials and do it myself. It will be more satisfying and likely cheaper in the long run. $800 for a false floor is insane. You could buy a table saw, jig saw, the MDF and whatever else for $400 or less.

As far as brand, I'm partial to RF. I don't see a lot of audiophiles using them, but I've always been pleased with their product and their stuff doesn't cost an arm and a leg either. But I have heard good things about ED as well. People like what they like, but he might come out better getting a sub with a slightly smaller mounting depth for this car; something around 7" is probably as big as you want to go unless you want the entire trunk to one giant box.

irishpwr46 · Feb 12, 2010

pretty cheap dual 12" box
http://cgi.ebay.com/2005-up-Ford-Mu...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5881430901

these guys will build a custome fiberglass one

http://cgi.ebay.com/CUSTOM-FIBERGLA...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item414ccabf19

GI Joe · Feb 12, 2010

irishpwr46 said:
pretty cheap dual 12" box
http://cgi.ebay.com/2005-up-Ford-Mu...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5881430901

these guys will build a custome fiberglass one

]

that what I would do if I was putting it in my car but he is convinced its not enough air space. They say the need 2.29 cu ft each.

GI Joe · Feb 12, 2010

bigwilly43729 said:
He could make a spare tire well enclosure and raise the floor a couple of inches to accomodate those subs. That ED sub has a 10" mounting depth (which is absurd by the way). The spare tire well will give you about 7" of mounting depth at it's lowest points and you can raise the floor about 3.5" to make it flush with that hump in the back. Give or take, you would have your 10" of depth and I'm sure that well should give you the airspace you need.

Or if you know how to fiberglass, you can make one hell of a box exactly the way you want it. It's not that difficult; it just takes some patience and effort. For that ED sub, I'd make a box similar to this one, but I'd glass the sides so that it had a nice tight fit. Even if you don't know how to glass, you can find 100 different tutorials on the web.

I'd scour the web for ideas, even if the car isn't a mustang. I have spent hours and hours researching ideas for what I wanted in my car and am very close to completion of my project. I like shops, but I'd rather buy the tools and materials and do it myself. It will be more satisfying and likely cheaper in the long run. $800 for a false floor is insane. You could buy a table saw, jig saw, the MDF and whatever else for $400 or less.

As far as brand, I'm partial to RF. I don't see a lot of audiophiles using them, but I've always been pleased with their product and their stuff doesn't cost an arm and a leg either. But I have heard good things about ED as well. People like what they like, but he might come out better getting a sub with a slightly smaller mounting depth for this car; something around 7" is probably as big as you want to go unless you want the entire trunk to one giant box.

Thats exactly what I plan to do..build a floor and use the wheel well. And yes it would be a chance to get a couple new tools..lol actually I have it all but you made a great point on cost...CRAZY. I'll raise it enough to accomodate say two 10's.
Will the wheel well need some material in it?
Do the shallow mount speakers sound as deep as the bigger magnet deeper back speakers?

bigwilly43729 · Feb 12, 2010

GI Joe said:
Thats exactly what I plan to do..build a floor and use the wheel well. And yes it would be a chance to get a couple new tools..lol actually I have it all but you made a great point on cost...CRAZY. I'll raise it enough to accomodate say two 10's.
Will the wheel well need some material in it?
Do the shallow mount speakers sound as deep as the bigger magnet deeper back speakers?

If you are referring to polyfill, I've never seen that in a spare tire well enclosure, but I guess it couldn't hurt anything. Most of the enclosures I've seen were fiberglassed and usually had a MDF baffle; very easy to make and requires next to no bodywork.

The spare tire well idea was going to be my original plans for my sound overhaul, but I ended up going a different direction. Because of that though, I ended up with a couple of RF shallow mount subs; 2 10's and a 12. I had a box built for the 10's and tested them shortly and loved it. The subs require less than 1 cu. ft of airspace and I think they are going to sound great.

I'm not sure if the shallow option is good for what he is shooting for though. Power won't be the number one factor, but when you are shooting for 1000+ Wrms to push through a speaker, you are talking some serious noise. A 'weaker' speaker can sound just as good in a properly designed box.

You guys may want to look into different box designs as well because you are approaching the point where the trunk is going to be absolutely worthless.

warrior86 · Feb 18, 2010

GI Joe said:
that what I would do if I was putting it in my car but he is convinced its not enough air space. They say the need 2.29 cu ft each.

These were good for me, well the 10" inch ones. The quality was AWESOME and it fit like a glove. I was MORE than impressed with it, specially for the price.

what you can do too, if you an OUTPUT RCA on your AMP, you can get a harness that plugs into the sub harness of the factory shaker 500 and then feed a male/female RCA cable back to the AMP and this way you can utilize the subs in the doors which arent that bad. Dont sound bad for me at least.

But if you do change out the subs in the doors if you do go with them, you'll need another AMP for them because the stock amps doubt will push them.

Infamous · Feb 19, 2010

honestly,

- take that PAC junk and crappy stock HU out of the car.

- throw in a decent nav with an equalizer (like you are already planning to).

- put some matting in the interior (i use raammat)

- throw the 8's in the trash, you may be experiencing some cancellation

- set your speakers on high pass crossover through the nav

thatll clean up the sound a LOT and the bass will feel a lot better.

treo is an excellent product. i recommend giving that shot because it wont cost any extra over your current plans ,with the exception of the matting. i think your tuning, the shitty output from the shitty stock headunit, and vibrations from the car may all be problematic currently.

theres no reason to go full retard with a megabox in the back. one strong 12, tuned well, with the rest of the car worked over to match, will sound excellent.

i used to run a resonant engineering SE12 in my old truck, trying to find a good box to use for the current car. that thing got retarded loud when i was feeding it 800 watts RMS. i'm absolutely sure it will be overkill for an s197gt.

sure you can keep cramming woofers in there, but theres only a certain amount of bass you can enjoy before it ruins the rest of the setup.

i wouldnt even mess with polyfill, its not going to bandaid a setup enough to make a noticeable difference.

try the treo first. if redoing the rest of the car and properly tuning the treo isn't enough, save space and buy one higher quality 12 with some ridiculous excursion and depth. a quality 12 in a sealed box can still deliver tight bass while going much lower than a 10 can ever dream of.

at this point, since he wants bass, i wouldnt recommend bothering with spending too much on speakers. get a 100-200 dollar component set for the front (alpine type R's are great for hte money) and run an amp.

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