latch5
forum member
Found a reasonable deal. Will there be any problems with F/R brake bias if I use my stock rear set up (05 GT). Any other things to think about?
Upgrade to GT500/Brembo Fr brakes
- Thread starter latch5
- Start date
TheKurgan
forum member
The bias is fine. You got wheels to clear 'em right ?
The bias is not fine. It maybe fine for the street or a street tire application. But you put those brakes on your car with a race pad and put a sticky set of tires on it as well and your on a time bomb with your abs system. Your abs system is a v6/gt unit tunned .meaning it's tuned for a certain tire grip , certain brake pad grip and a certain driving enviorment. when pushed it could/will freak out and go into a fault mode which is a bad. when this happens bad shit happens. brakes to the floor etc etc. ask around. to make it right you will need a gt500hcu and module. if going full out race I would suggest the fr500s module "race calibrated"
a 500c or s race module will need a gt500 hcu. it will not fit a gt /v6 hcu.
just trying to help.
when the fr500c first came out they had all sorts of weird brake pedal problems, failures etc etc. I've personally seen a few buried in tire walls from it. the fix was the race calibrated modules.
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latch5
forum member
Using Colbalt XR2 pads and Nitto NT 01s now on stock brake system. Do you see a time bomb with this situation. Only problem I notice is hyper heating my front caliper pistons. Needing to find a low cost fix (if possible) - Was under the impression the the GT500 swap was the proper solution. Open to suggestions.
Sleeper_08
forum member
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Does anyone know if they make these or any other changes when they put the Brembo's on a 2011 GT Brembo Brake Package. In the description of the package they say "Unique Electronic Stability (ESC) Tuning"?
Ive seen guys run combos like that with no problems "yet"
I've also seen guys run that combo and not much left of the car when the brakes fail.
I just bought a wrecked car from a member with brake failure with a combo similar to yours .To this day not certain why it failed ?
you be the judge?
also keep in mind the booster is different as well from a gt500 to a gt. it's different for a reason so ?
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I'd be willing to bet that a brembo brake package comes with a gt500hcu and booster as well.
if they don't I wonder if the module on the hcu is different. different as in calibration.
Gray Ghost GT
Road Racing Fanatic!
Do you have a part number for the GT500 HCU and Module that you're referring to? Is this a common upgrade when people install BBKs, such as Stoptech, Wilwood, etc.? I haven't read where a lot about people were also changing out their GT HCU and Module for the GT500 when upgrading their brakes. Thanks.
TheKurgan
forum member
It's fine for me with Carbotech pads, BFG R1's, and getting into ABS from 150mph so I don't know what you're talking about.
Gold'n'Black
ifu'durgurl
frpp does not say anything about upgrading the HCU, and it is not incuded in the brake kit, they do say the rear pads need to be upgraded that is it. here are the directions from FRPP http://www.fordracingparts.com/download/instructionsheets/FordInstShtM-2300-S.pdf
Do as you wish, but I've talked with enough people around the abs system on this car to have a pretty good grasp of what it's all about and it's function.
these are design/engineer guys at ford and outside of ford that designed the system.Not weekend warriors that say no problems with my car.
he asked for opinions and I gave mine.
Why do you think the fr500c and S car both run these items I mention .
I hope that if and when your brakes fail at 150 mph that you get through it.
TheKurgan
forum member
Are these cars running Brembo calipers on the front and stockers on the rear ? And are you saying that the piston is going to fail eventually due to the ABS taking a crap ? I'm not saying you're wrong but I'd like a little more technical advise other than you've talked to some engineers and seen some cars get jacked up.
What exactly is the point of failure ?
The point of the failure is in the abs unit because your putting information into wheel speed sensors that are not designed to undertand the information your giving it based on pad compund,tire compund etc. etc. etc.
the abs can give up. because of this and it fails. larger pads and different pistons may be the culpret more then upgrading a stock pad but All I'm saying is that when you start changing crap it effects the proper operation of the abs system.
the system has it limits.
as for the gt500 brake upgrade instructions. who knows, maybe the system can handle a 4 piston caliper on a stock pad compund a more agressive tire.
I'm sure when they made those instructions they where not thinking about a guy racing on a road course and burning up race compund tires.
The complete "bleed the brakes" was enough for me to stop reading. You know there is a right and wrong way to bleed a caliper with two bleed screws. They don't even mention that.
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19COBRA93
Ford Racing
GT500 part numbers:
7R3Z-2C219-E ecu
7R3Z-2C215-C hcu
7R3Z-2005-A booster
All are unique to the GT500. However, I have GT500 brakes on my GT with no other changes and it's been working flawlessly for over a year. I drive it daily, drag race, autocross, open track, and drive it in the winter, and I've never had so much as a hickup. My rear rotors do seem to be overworked on open track, but otherwise the system works great. On track I run BFG R1's. But stock pads -which may be the key.
The only difference I can think of for the difference in the ABS parts, is that the GT500 is a heavier car, and the ABS would need to be configured differently for that.
7R3Z-2C219-E ecu
7R3Z-2C215-C hcu
7R3Z-2005-A booster
All are unique to the GT500. However, I have GT500 brakes on my GT with no other changes and it's been working flawlessly for over a year. I drive it daily, drag race, autocross, open track, and drive it in the winter, and I've never had so much as a hickup. My rear rotors do seem to be overworked on open track, but otherwise the system works great. On track I run BFG R1's. But stock pads -which may be the key.
The only difference I can think of for the difference in the ABS parts, is that the GT500 is a heavier car, and the ABS would need to be configured differently for that.
TheKurgan
forum member
Input into wheel speed sensors ? Hmm.
Now if the ABS fails, the tires lock right ? The pedal shouldn't go to the floor. It seems to me this is a MAJOR issue if true which I don't think it is with the Brembo/stock configuration. This combination has been in effect with GT500's and GT's for quite a while now and I haven't seen any failures or revised recommendations from SVT/Ford.
These FR500x cars are not running the brembo/stock combo are they ? I was hoping we could just stick to that combo since that is what the OP asked about and is the same thing I'm running
DusterRT
Defected to Deutsche
Steve speaks the truth...I had my ABS freak out after I put my brakes on during a wet autocross run (wheels locked up, plowed through cones). At the time I wrote it off as a freak incident, but I've heard of a couple other guys running in to this. Never happened again, but I swapped HCU's shortly after. If I can get my shit together and get back out on the track next year I'll be trying out the FR500 module as well.
Most people don't understand just how incredibly complex modern ABS programming is (I will be the first to say I don't know much about it, but I know a little). It can come on even without wheel slip if you're decelerating too quickly; it calculates your rate of deceleration and if it exceeds the parameters that the programming was based on (street tires, pads, etc), it will "think" that all the wheels are locking up, even though your R-comps and race pads are doing just fine. Do something like change up the calipers and you can definitely freak the computers out.
I think the difference between brake boosters, GT vs. GT500, is just feel or assist levels. I think the GT500 booster doesn't give quite as much assist as the GT unit..my pedal got pretty soft feeling after putting the brakes on (that could also be from the increased piston area as well, it's probably a combination of both).
Most people don't understand just how incredibly complex modern ABS programming is (I will be the first to say I don't know much about it, but I know a little). It can come on even without wheel slip if you're decelerating too quickly; it calculates your rate of deceleration and if it exceeds the parameters that the programming was based on (street tires, pads, etc), it will "think" that all the wheels are locking up, even though your R-comps and race pads are doing just fine. Do something like change up the calipers and you can definitely freak the computers out.
I think the difference between brake boosters, GT vs. GT500, is just feel or assist levels. I think the GT500 booster doesn't give quite as much assist as the GT unit..my pedal got pretty soft feeling after putting the brakes on (that could also be from the increased piston area as well, it's probably a combination of both).
You may want to order that fr module real soon. least the s one. The mustang challenge series is done this year after miller in September. I'm already starting to see things like the steering wheel , driveshaft loop become obsolete. I'm guessing the module is not far behind.
DusterRT
Defected to Deutsche
In my experience, yes...the tires locked up.
I'm not sure about anyone else, but being completely stopped, I can put the pedal to the floor with moderate effort. This concerned me, so I bled, re-bled, bled some more, took it to the dealer and had it pressure bled after swapping the HCU, installed SS lines and bled and bled some more. Never went away. While driving though, the ABS will activate before I get to the floor. What I think might have happened in the instances Steve's talking about, is the ABS fails, tires lock and the driver tries to mash the pedal through the floor wondering where the hell his brakes are.
FR500S uses GT500 calipers and the same rear calipers as any other S197. FR500C uses different front brakes (Brembo F40 based I believe). Not sure what the C is doing for its HCU/module, but I think it also uses the same rear calipers.
DusterRT
Defected to Deutsche
Yeah, I've been wondering when things are going to start disappearing; thankfully I got mine back in February and it's waiting patiently for me. I've been thinking about trying to pick up some other FR pieces before they're made of unobtanium...
RedMosesSC
Senior Member
I read about the bias issues on the track before i swapped to the Brembo's on my GT, i looked into getting the module but never did. Ran the GT500 brakes on ther street & Autocross for a year (8k miles) and had no issues, the increase in breaking power is temendous.
BUT whats fine for the street is far from OK on the track, when your pushign your car to the limits for extended periods of time, gremlins and weak links will show their ugly faces in the worst possible time...
BUT whats fine for the street is far from OK on the track, when your pushign your car to the limits for extended periods of time, gremlins and weak links will show their ugly faces in the worst possible time...
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