Walbro DCSS 39/50 405lph vs. 465lph testing

As a continuation to this thread on the Walbro dual channel single stage 39/50 armature turbine pump, as you may know the "465lph" e85 version has now been released.

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74652&highlight=walbro+400


Justin at FORE did some in house testing yesterday on both pumps and here are the results.

Both tests were done at 13.5 volts:
DCSS"405" (#9000262): 433 lph @ 40 psi, 365 lph @ 60 psi
DCSS"465" (#9000267): 435 lph @ 40 psi, 380 lph @ 60 psi

So, two conclusions... the 400lph pump actually flows a bit better than advertised and the 465 version flows quite a bit less than advertised comparetively.

At a retail price of $160 for the pump and $25 for the filter/install kit for the 405 version and $225 for the pump and $25 for the filter/install kit for the 465 version, in Justin's opinion the cost is not quite worth the gain and I personaly agree. Aproximately 35% increase in price for 5% more flow.

Also, dimensions wise the 465 version of the pump is 11mm taller than the 405 version other than that they are the same as far as reliabilty and components go for use in e85. This 465 e85 version is merely a taller and slightly higher flowing version with the one benefit of running a tad cooler than the 405 when pushed hard with e85. Here are the expected pump lifes from walbro:

DCSS405: 10,000 hours in gasoline, 8,500 hours in E85
DCSS"430": 10,000 hours in both fuel types

Thier goal was a pump to match the 405's performance in gasoline, when used in e85.

great info from our buddy Justin at fore

I don't feel so bad now for buying two of the 405s about a month before the 465s were released

Hawgman said:

I don't feel so bad now for buying two of the 405s about a month before the 465s were released

Click to expand...

Exactly. Justin is sticking with the 405's as well and just canceled his stocking order and isn't going to redesign his billet hats to fit the taller 465 pump based on these results.

Very nice info!

We always get the best info from Jeremy

Side by side pic of each pump.

Are the 405's a direct swap for the gt500 guys?

No. Its gonna take a bit of work to fit them. I will post up after I do it.

daigt500 said:

Here are some test data comparing the 405 vs 465 lph pumps from Fore Innovations. The results isn't what I thought.



I was going to sell my 405lph pumps to go 465lph but after reading this I think I'll just keep it and run with 3 of them.

Click to expand...

Here are some test data comparing the 405 vs 465 lph pumps from Fore Innovations. The results isn't what I thought.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fore Innovations
405 vs 465 LPH Pumps...The Real Comparison


Since TI Automotive (owner of Walbro) released the fabulous 405 lph DCSS fuel pump last year, many of us have long awaited the "465 lph" version. The DCSS465 promised higher performance, complete E85 compatibility, same dimensions as the 405, and slightly higher pricing...it sounded almost too good to be true. See for yourself:


E85 COMPATIBILITY
The 405 can expect a 15% shorter life expectancy in E85 compared to the 465. Considering the 465 has an average life expectancy of 10,000 hours in E85, we can expect the 405 to live 8,500 hours in the "corn." If you drive your car an average of 45mph, that is still 382,500 miles. Let's face it, the 405 is absolutely fine in E85.


PERFORMANCE ADVANTAGE
The 465 barely outperforms the 405...to be accurate, the margin is only 5%. Why you ask? The 405's published performance is 405 lph in E85. The 465's rating of 465 lph is rated for gasoline. This is NOT a fair comparison. Let's even the playing field:

In gasoline at 40psi and 13.5 volts:
"405" flows 440 lph
"465" flows 465 lph

In E85 at 40psi and 13.5 volts:
"405" flows 405 lph
"465" flows 430 lph
In the practical sense, the 465 outperforms the 405 by only 5% under most conditions. Here are some pretty graphs if you want a visual:

FORM FACTOR:

The upper and lower diameters are the same at 39mm and 50mm, respectively. The 465 comes with a worthless Delphi connector that you're going to snip off (leaving you with wire ends to splice) whereas the 405 comes with more convenient male quick disconnect terminals. Both have a outlet barb for 3/8" hose. The biggest difference between the two pumps is the inlet to outlet length. The 465 is nearly 1/2 inch longer...not good in the tight confines of a fuel tank.

COST:

DCSS405: $160
DCSS465: $220


The 465 costs 37.5% more than the 405. No need to say more.




BOTTOM LINE:

We pay almost 40% more for the 465 that gives us 5% more performance with no tangible pump life benefit. It doesn't sound very promising...unless you really care about that 5% performance increase. Considering our fuel hats with dual 405s match or outperform nearly every available electric external pump, then we can't see the benefit of offering this pump to our customers

Are both these new pumps compatible with a return set up as well as the returnless?

Edit: Also do the 405s use the same sock as the 255s?

I want to get one of your 405lph setups... just as soon as I offload my GT500 pump.

one eyed willy said:

Are the 405's a direct swap for the gt500 guys?

Click to expand...

Jeremy@S&H Performance said:

No. Its gonna take a bit of work to fit them. I will post up after I do it.

Click to expand...

You need to get busy making them fit as I need more pump, so I can tune for and run E85 at the track.

05stroker said:

Are both these new pumps compatible with a return set up as well as the returnless?

Edit: Also do the 405s use the same sock as the 255s?

Click to expand...

Yes they were designed for pwm but can be used in both.

The part number for the 405 sock is 125-190. But yes they use the traditional style filter mount so you can use different styles.

These pumps are 1mm wider all the way around and arent a direct fit on the exsisting fore hats. I had to make the holes larger on matt's hat to make them fit lol

8306gt said:

You need to get busy making them fit as I need more pump, so I can tune for and run E85 at the track.

Click to expand...

LOL should be giving it a go next week. Greg maxed out his 340's so we are are putting 2 405's on his gt500 hat, soon!

05stroker said:

Are both these new pumps compatible with a return set up as well as the returnless?

Edit: Also do the 405s use the same sock as the 255s?

Click to expand...

Jeremy@S&H Performance said:

Yes they were designed for pwm but can be used in both.

The part number for the 405 sock is 125-190. But yes they use the traditional style filter mount so you can use different styles.

These pumps are 1mm wider all the way around and arent a direct fit on the exsisting fore hats. I had to make the holes larger on matt's hat to make them fit lol

Click to expand...

Billy, I am running a pair of the 405s in a return system. They work fine