2013 GT STX-ESP autocross build

Hi all, I'm one of those long-time lurkers. Just thought I'd transplant my autocross build thread from Modded Mustangs. Enjoy!

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So I finally decided to make a thread covering my progress with the 5.0 since I started to build it for autocross last year. The intention is to, as much as possible, cover as many events and changes as possible as the season goes on. Just to be clear, even though the car is currently being campaigned in STX, the plan is still to run it in ESP after this year. Let's just call this season a transitional period where I'm trying new things with the suspension setup and getting fully comfortable with the car. In that sense I think running on skinny 265s in STX is actually a great platform to discover all the little nuances that comes with driving a heavy, high powered car.


For most of the events last year I ran the car in FS with a set of Koni Yellows and some throw-away Hoosier A6's. The car was pretty quick but local competition was sparse and the Hoosier's quickly corded from the lack of front camber.

From that point on I decided to throw myself into the local STX fray, which contains multiple national trophy winners and nationally competitive cars, including the 2012 STX winner car and driver. This year the competition is even more fierce and STX has definitely become the healthiest class in the San Francisco region.

Onto the build:
Since moving to STX I have made relatively few changes to the setup.

The Koni Yellows were complemented by some Steeda Sport springs:





I used a Steeda Competition front sway bar for the 2010 and older model. Not sure if it really is much stiffer than the stock FSB since it's about the same diameter, only that it weights more so it probably has thicker tubing or is solid. Middle hole setting felt pretty nice and balanced with the spring/shock setup described above:


A BMR adjustable panhard bar to center the axle after lowering:


And, of course, some decent autocross rubber in the form of 265/40/18 Hankook RS-3's. This was the best choice I could come up with as far as sizing, but the tire is probably still not tall enough since my car came with the optional 3.73 rear end. With the SCT tuner I was able to increase the rev limit to 7500 RPM, but that got the car to top out 2nd at only 65mph.


With the Ford OEM crash bolts and slotted strut hole on the Koni's I was able to get 2.7 degrees camber, far from optimal but pretty good considering the lack of adjustable camber plates:


An Eaton Truetrac was installed earlier this year, before the Evo school, to replace the completely worn out stock clutch diff:


Let me tell ya, if you are thinking about swapping for a T2R or Eaton or another aftermarket diff for autocross or track purposes, DO IT! The Truetrac made a huge difference in the way the car puts down power out of turns, I have to unwind the wheel much sooner now in anticipation of the rotation that the diff provides instead of just pushing and scrubbing away at the exit with the worn out stock diff on right hand turns.

With the car set up as described above I ran the short Fall slush season last year and the first event this year, as well as Phase I and II of the Evo school a month ago. The car was very easy to drive and puts the power down relatively well considering the sub-optimal tire width.

---------- Post added at 12:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 AM ----------

Some details on the Evo school weekend:

I learned a great deal at the school, especially as it pertains to mental focus and discipline with the throttle. As it turns out the biggest gain for me came from being as neat as possible, almost to the point of being extremely boring. As counter-intuitive as it sounds given I drive a 400 hp car, this was the light-bulb moment that made me realize way this car was meant to be driven.

The instructor line-up was SUPERB (I had Heyward Wagner, Bryan Heitkotter, and Mike Maier instruct me, does it get any better than that? ), and by the end of each instruction session I was able to shave 1 to 1.5 seconds off my best time for the initial 3 warm-up. I managed to better the times put down by two of my instructors, but Mike Maier was still quicker than me by 0.4 seconds dirty (albeit with only TWO laps in my car!).

I received a lot of positive feedback on the setup of the car from the instructors as well. Note: this is still the Koni Yellow/Steeda Sport suspension setup, AST 4100s came a few weeks later hehehe... All the instructors though the car was very well balanced and neutral. Mike M. loved the way the car drove and thought it was one of the funnest cars in attendance (not surprising to anybody that knows who he is I guess). As far as STX competitiveness goes, the instructors thought the car could get it done at the national tour level on certain courses, with enough driver and setup development of course. Obviously, huge sweeping corners won't be doing this car any favors, and it's not the easiest car to slalom (though it's surprisingly capable in transition, just that the weight will always delay your moves a bit).

All in all it was a great learning experience, especially since I felt like I didn't know where I could still gain time since before I would always just go out and drive the course as I see fit, come back, be unhappy with the time, and just go out and drive harder. Now I'm approaching the runs with a whole new perspective of focusing on dialing back and focusing on minimizing mistakes:

A few notes I took down for myself from the school, hopefully this is helpful to everyone as well:

1) Focus on hitting all the key points along the course, neat and steady is faster than aggressively attacking an element but making mistakes. Be deliberate with inputs to position the car where you want it to be for the next element on course.

2) You must KNOW what’s coming in order to position the car where it needs to be, to do that you have to LOOK AHEAD. But be careful not to target-lock and end up only focusing on the same element as you come up to it, keep moving your sight up the course.

3) Always backside the slalom, it's more important than you think. If you are slightly behind at the beginning of the slalom, it could add up and by the end of the slalom you're way behind.

4) Many times taking the tighter line to shorten distance traveled will net more time than trying to carry more momentum and going wide

5) Be extremely judicious with throttle application and have patience when applying throttle in the “slow” corners. Modulation is extremely important, what “feels” slow in a 400+ hp car may be all the tires will take, but going over the limit and oversteering doesn’t help you go faster.

6) Autocross is about making the least amount of mistakes, not making NO mistakes – the run is not over until it’s over. Stay focused and continue to execute the next elements

7) THINK about each run taken, focus on fixing the mistakes in the next run but don’t let yourself make mistakes somewhere else.


A few photos from some events in this past season:









Time to sleep! I'll continue with the report on the AST 4100s and this past weekend's racing tomorrow.

A report on converting over to AST 4100 coilovers and the testing results this past weekend:

So I purchased the AST 4100s from SCCAForums for a pretty nice price considering the fronts were recently rebuilt. However the previous owner ran the shocks in F-stock, which presents two obstacles to the task of getting them ready for STX/ESP duty:

1) The set came with the stock-style perches only, so I had to purchase a set of height adjustment rings and the CC plates from Vorshlag as well as coilover springs.
2) Since the fronts were rebuilt, I cannot count on them still retaining off-the-shelf valving over whatever may be more appropriate for FS (might have more compression valving that I'd like for 450lb springs vs. 130ish lb stock springs) - I will probably go back and ask the previous owner about it.

How the AST's came, they were in pristine condition and the seller wrapped them in every bit of protective material that came from the factory. Good stuff!


The Vorshlag plate sure looks pretty!


Front coilover assembled with the plates and 450lb Hyperco springs


One thing to note about my setup is that I retained the 175lb Steeda Sports springs in the rear. The logic is that since they are already at the rate Vorshlag ran their car at and is built by Hyperco, I can spare the $280 for the adjusters and $150 on springs for now. The only bad part I have to do without height adjustment in the rear and as is the car is a bit high in the rear .

Here's my starting point for the camber setting. I ended up backing the camber off a tiny bit because the shaft was rubbing the edge of the strut tower hole when it articulates in a turn.

Finally found the time to do the write-up on this past weekend's autocross and testing the ASTs!

An impression on the AST 4100/Vorshlag CC plate combo:

Installation/setup:
All the parts from Vorshlag came in nicely packaged and fits perfectly on the AST dampers. We eyeballed the ride height and didn't end up re-adjusting it after installation, but in retrospect the front is a bit on the lowside and the car had a noticeable forward rake. I will most likely raise the front ride height a bit. We pushed in the camber adjustment as far as possible, but had to set the caster at the stock position in order to do so. The strut tower hole was simply too small to have both camber and caster - at max caster setting the strut shaft was stuck rubbing against the top of the strut hole and wouldn't have been able to move inward.

I was pretty happy about being able to adjust the pickup point of the stabilizer bracket using the threaded collar, this made it possible to take out some of the pre-load on the swaybar endlinks when the car is at ride height (think of it as the poor man's adjustable end link). The only bad part is that they are not really adjustable once the wheels are installed and since I don't have adjustable endlinks I can only move the stabilizer bracket collar downwards so much before the swaybar arm starts to contact the lower control arm.

Another concern that I have about the setup is how little travel the inverted rear shocks had. Remember that this is with the 175lb Steeda Sport rear springs that only lowers the rear about 1 inch. As is the shock barely has more travel than the distance between the shortened bump stop and chassis. Now I can totally see why Terry quickly moved on to a non-inverted rear shock setup which offered more than an inch of additional travel. I will elaborate a bit more on the implications for autocross later on. Here is the extent of the problem:



Street driving:
I installed the new suspension setup the afternoon before the event so I didn't have much time to spend with the car feeling out how it rode with the ASTs. What I can say is that the ride was beautiful on the 80 mile drive down to the the event venue! I adjusted the front rebound to 3/12 clicks (1/12 being full soft) and 6/24 clicks in the rear (I found it odd that the rears had 24 clicks of adjustment, I thought AST's all had 12 clicks?). The front damping response to small bumps and gaps on the road was excellent, part of it I feel was from taking out a lot of the preload on the swaybar but I was pleasantly surprised at how much better the front felt even with the 450lb springs. I am, however, still trying to figure out the setting for the rear for street driving comfort. I've tried 6/24 clicks, 7/24, back down to 5/24. and now 3/24 clicks from full soft. At 3 clicks from full soft the rear felt "soft" enough to be comfortable for cracks in the road, but actual BUMPS and large undulations in the road surface made the car feel a bit bouncy and nervous. Maybe Conekiller can give some input on setting the rears for comfort!

---------- Post added at 11:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:25 PM ----------

3/10 SCCA San Francisco championship event recap:

I invited four co-drivers this past Sunday to help me dial in the shocks and tire pressures on the car, three of them have trophy'd at tours and at Nationals. The first session in the morning was an exercise in frustration, my co-driver and I had to deal with a loud clunk coming from the front suspension that was quite disconcerting. Turns out that one of the the lower strut bolt worked it's way loose and was slipping along the slotted lower strut hole on the AST strut bracket (that'll teach me to re-use torque-to-yield strut bolts ). I took the wheel off and cranked the bolt as tight as possible between run-groups and fortunately the clunk didn't come back for the day, I will of course install a new bolt as soon as possible.

I LOVED the way the car felt on course with the new suspension setup! The higher spring rate up front definitely settled the car much better in transition and the car put down power more easily as well. I did not re-adjust the toe after adding more camber so I have a bit of toe out right now which helped the car turn in.

I began the day at 6/12 clicks front and 12/24 clicks rear, moved up to 10/12 clicks front and 16/24 clicks rear because my co-driver felt that the car was rotating around slalom cones better with a tighter rear rebound. It was not all smooth sailing, however, as nearly every one of my co-drivers reported a snap oversteer that occurred as the car was powering out of a long-ish sweeper. The event was held at Marina Airport near Monterey on it's grippy concrete airplane storage lot so I was already a bit concerned about loading up the suspension too much at the rear. After observing a few runs I was pretty sure that the car was experiencing "jacking down" in the rear from the high rebound forces the ASTs produced, as the car made it's way around the sweeper the outside rear was probably already very close to if not sitting on the bumpstops, and the throttle application at the exit probably loaded the rear past the maximum travel.

As a quick fix we backed down the rebound to 10/24 clicks and the car did not seem to exhibit the snap oversteer anymore. We also backed down the front rebound to 8/12 clicks because I felt that the front damping was restricting the car's response to inputs a bit too much, the car felt almost sluggish through the slaloms. Loosening up the front rebound made the car feel a bit crisper on turn-in, and I might even try backing it down further to 6/12 at the next event on asphalt.

How did the car do?
Not too hot within the STX class. The Tsang brothers in their 325i was pulled off solid 48.7's (good for 3rd in PAX out of 145, they also happen to be two of my co-drivers ) to my horrible 51.9. After I fixed the loose strut bolt I was able to pull off 51.1 in fun runs for testing but all in all I've actually dropped off compared to how I usually stack up to them. The only comfort I had is that the course was very tight on certain elemnts and frustrated many other seasoned drivers as well. The slalom spacing was definitely physically demanding and it was very difficult to stay ahead of the cones. Charlie Davis' national-winning 325is managed a 50.8 and a pair of very quick local drivers co-driving an STX RX-8 that is usually head to head with the top of the class was also held to 51.0 second runs. The Tsang brothers driving my car managed a 51.0 and a 50.7 with many cones due to their not being used to the house-sized behemoth that is the Mustang, so I know I'm not too far off as a driver. However, it was a bit discouraging to be faced with the inevitable truth that the car simply will not keep up without a course that lets it stretch is long legs.

Here's the video from my best "clean" run of the day:


Some photos, credit goes to Ric Quinonez:










Where do we go from here?
This coming weekend is going to be very exciting! I'm doing a Sat/Sun double-header autocrossing with the American Auto-x Series (a lot of high powered muscle cars on big courses with plenty of straights) as well as Round 3 of the SCCA season on Sunday. This should give me a better picture of where the car is and where my driving is given the (hopefully) healthy mix of higher speed, open courses and more technical courses.

Setup changes planned for the car?

1) I have to raise the front ride height a bit. As it is the car rakes forward quite a bit and I feel that the F/R balance is thrown off enough where it's inhibiting the car from changing directions quickly in transition.

2) The car is toed out as it sits now, though it does track straight as an arrow and is supremely stable on the highway hehehe. I will need to get an alignment to get the toe zeroed out for daily driving and also balance out the left to right camber in case they are a bit off despite identical CC plate positions.

3) I personally feel that the Mustang could use higher rate springs in the rear, 450F/250R sounds pretty good in my head. The car still pushes a bit on concrete, so a bit more rate in the rear could help it rotate better as well as keep it off the bumpstops at the end of long sweepers.

4) NEW. TIRES. My current set of RS-3's have seen quite a bit of abuse with all the co-drivers and schools it's seen in the recent months, they are almost bald. Since neither the Dunlop ZII or the BFG Rival is offering a 265/40/18 size at the moment, I may have to pick up another set of RS-3's.

3/31 Update:

Finally found the time to sit down and do a post about the latest happenings with the car and autocross! Attended three events held by three different clubs between the last post and today so I will try to recall each in sequential order.

3/16 American Autocross Series Round 1:

AAS events are almost always held at the Marina airport on it's concrete lot and is always terrific fun with wide open, fast courses and a lot of National Champions showcasing their skills and high-powered, well-prepped cars, there aways looks to be more trailered cars than not lol! The club caters primarily to Corvettes but other top-level driver/combos are often seen at these events, you may recognize these Tom Ellam and Andy Mckee's rides from their domination of Prepared classes at Nationals :





Not not many fellow STX competitors gathered this time, we've split our time between AAS and BMWCCA events that day. On top of that, I decided to do my runs in the morning to make it home early, but ST classes didn't run till the afternoon, so I missed out on running directly against Bryan H. and Charlie Davis in the STX BMW as well as a well-driven Suby BRZ that's currently underdevelopment but already making a lot of noise in the local STX scene.

The car drove beautifully on this very open course with plenty of room to stretch it's legs. It still doesn't love big sweepers and very tight offsets right after a long straight can be problematic as the car still plows a bit when I'm on the brakes trying to shut it down and turn in at the same time, I need to back up my braking zone a bit more to stay ahead of the tight stuff. Here's the video, you can hear me riding the 7500rpm limiter (already 65mph) from just past the halfway point of the straight before the tight left showcase w/kink, talk about temptation for third gear:



Results-wise I was a bit disappointed given the power advantage this course supposedly granted me. I ran a 42.0 to Bryan Heitkotter's 40.55 in the National's winning 325is, car owner Charlie Davis ran a 41.4, and the BRZ was super impressive doing a 40.8 with barely any development. I heard later on that the sky cleared up and it was a bit warmer than the morning so take it with any amount of salt you like . Btw I heard Bryan pulled a second on 2nd best driver at Day 1 of San Diego National Tour this weekend, hopped on a plane and left right after, skipping Day 2 altogether, that's just how alien's roll I guess !

3/17 SCCA SFR Round 3:

If you thought a 1.5 sec gap against the reigning National Champ was bad, the car's performance at the SCCA event against the rest of the local STX field was a knockout punch for my hopes in STX (minus Charlie's 325is and the BRZ, both decided to stay in Marina for Day 2 of AAS that weekend). Mack and Justin Tsang in their 325i were BLAZING fast - Mack put 3 seconds on me and took 1st PAX out of 174 points entries.

In the mean time, I was struggling to get comfortable in the car on this bumpier, much less grippy asphalt lot. The lack of a proper alignment after the AST installation reared it's ugly head after staying relatively undetectable on concrete, the extra toe-out from the camber gain made the car darty and less than confidence-inspiring on the fast right-hand sweeper into the finish. I also had to back down the rear rebound all the way to 3/24 clicks in order to keep the rear end anywhere near stable, otherwise it skipped across bumps pretty badly. On a positive note I checked out some photos of the run later on and saw that the car was squatting onto the rear tires and putting down power pretty well through the initial set of slaloms, much like the Vorshlag car did, only my car sits quite a bit higher:





Here's the video of the best run, sorry about the blurriness, the focus got kind of thrown off by the brightness outside. You can see me start to bounce up and down a bit in the seat toward the last third of the run, not a great sign considering how little travel the inverted shock already has and the prospects of more stress from the grip of Hoosier's in ESP (hinting at things to come):



3/31 Norcal UFO Round 1:

The local UFO series is a bit of an oddball (who knew? given the name...). It pretty much comprises of a lot of folks in Formula Ford-style CM cars and modified dune buggies on R-comps complemented by car enthusiasts that may not be as serious about autocross as the SCCA membership but like to bring their daily driver's out once in a long while, so TBH the competition isn't quite on the level of SCCA. However the organizers are very cool, friendly folks who put a lot of emphasis on safety so that's pretty nice.

I was the lone-SCCA SFR STX competitor that day and took the class pretty handily. Ended up with 31st raw and 12th pax out of about 120ish people, behind mostly Prepared and B/C/D-Mod type cars, granted none of the STX aliens from SFR showed up. Some might attribute that to the propensity of UFO courses to line the course not with chalk but an ocean of cones, and the general "tight-ness" of their courses, as you'll see in the video. Still, a pretty fun course and a pretty fun day. Tires are just about done though:



Here are a couple of videos from the day to demonstrate something I've been struggling with with regard to engine tune on this car for auto-x.

First run - This is with standard Bama Race tune that I daily-drive on. The car definitely exhibits the very abrupt throttle opening characteristics that Terry had identified on their car when using an off-the-shelf aftermarket tune. You can tell from the video that the car almost catches a second wind on straights and outputs noticeably more power but throws me all over the place:



Third and fastest run - Pulled off the grid and loaded up the "Strategy Tune" offered in the SCT Tuner, set to the proper parameters. This is the tune I've been using for 95% of my autocross runs in the Mustang, it has a much milder power delivery (though still not perfectly linear IMO) but also seems to put out less power overall. On top of that, car would buck for a split second as I come to a stop while in gear using this tune:




Some thoughts on STX:

Do I still think the 5 liter S197 can get it done in STX? I have to admit my faith has been a bit shaken, the lack of tire under this 3500lb car has proven to be a great challenge, but not quite so much so that I think it kills it's chances. What I mean is that IMO, the 5.0 on 265 width street tires is a much less forgiving animal than an RX-8 or 325i/is on similar sized tires but weight as much as 800lb less - this car punishes any over-driving with respect to steering or throttle with a either a harsh plowing understeer or a dramatic oversteering slide that takes you off the proper racing line.

The fast BMW drivers have said as much, they can keep the 190whp car fully floored through a sweeper with only a very neutral, controllable oversteer. Meanwhile, the Mustang has to be driven with extreme prejudice in order to be effective. At the same time you have to deal with the size of the car should you chance upon a very tight, technical course. In other words, the car will punish your mistakes much more readily and frequently before it will reward you with the power to launch out of slow corners and down long straights. This means that in order to do well in STX the Mustang requires an extremely patient throttle foot AND the right course, one that does not overly punish it's size and at the same time have enough shut-down corners leading into long straights to take advantage of it's tremendous power (though most National's style courses aren't designed like this so it may be a lost cause afterall).

That's about it for today, I'll make another post tomorrow about my decision to move to ESP ahead of schedule. Should be fun.

You already wore out the stock trac-lock?

Sky Render said:

You already wore out the stock trac-lock?

Click to expand...

They don't last long... mine made it through a my Novice season and about half of my second season of autocrossing... by the time they were replaced the tech that did the replacement (powertrain warranty!) said the pucks the clutch packs sit on where completely bare of any clutch material... yup, that explains the wheel spin!

One of our local serious CP guys runs a T-Lok and he rebuilds his twice a year. Once at the beginning between our first event and Spring Nationals and once right before nationals. I asked him which set of clutch packs he is using and he said he tried the carbon fiber packs and hated how they locked up so switched back to the organics. I believe he even uses the newer layout rather than some 4 clutch pack set up.

Chilema: Your words pretty much echo exactly my thoughts on the 5.0L in STX. It's simply too much of everything for the wheels and tires allowed. The 05-09 S197's start off lighter, significantly less power and have a slightly better weight distribution and would be better off in STX.

I'd like to ask, how far off were you from the top STU competitor? April 20th, the next FasTrack comes out that has the response to all of the "Move the pony cars to STU" letter. Hopefully we get moved as that would be a HUGE boon to these cars in ST.

Awesome thread! Continue the excellent work!

My stock LSD seems to be fine, but I'm not running super-sticky tires yet. I've heard that's what really does them in.

Sky Render said:

My stock LSD seems to be fine, but I'm not running super-sticky tires yet. I've heard that's what really does them in.

Click to expand...

Mine had about 30,000 on them of street driven miles and probably about 8 autocrosses when they went tits up. I fully expect to have to replace them by the end of this year.

Whiskey11 said:

Mine had about 30,000 on them of street driven miles and probably about 8 autocrosses when they went tits up. I fully expect to have to replace them by the end of this year.

Click to expand...

Are you talking about your tires or the LSD?

Sky Render said:

Are you talking about your tires or the LSD?

Click to expand...

The LSD, in stock form, went about 30k miles and 8 autocrosses before I noticed that it was slipping. It was probably long dead before that.

Whiskey11 said:

The LSD, in stock form, went about 30k miles and 8 autocrosses before I noticed that it was slipping. It was probably long dead before that.

Click to expand...

Hm, I'm on my third season with the stock track-lock. Just under 30,000 miles. I haven't noticed slipping yet, but I've been on 300-treadwear tires the whole time.

Guess I'm going to start saving up for the T2 Torsen...

My track-lock was gone I'm sure well before I noticed it with around 12k miles and 15 events on it. Didn't really notice it until I went to the stickier RS3 tires and started getting enough body roll to make the inside rear tire light. All my autocrossing up to that point had been on the stock pirelli summer tires and a short lived run on Ventus V12s.

I wouldn't be surprised if you're track-lock is worn out SkyRender, but its just not as noticeable with the lower grip tires and upgraded suspension keeping some weight on the inside rear tire.

Fuck. I can't afford that Torsen right now. It's around $1,200 out the door to get it installed.

Whiskey11 said:

They don't last long... mine made it through a my Novice season and about half of my second season of autocrossing... by the time they were replaced the tech that did the replacement (powertrain warranty!) said the pucks the clutch packs sit on where completely bare of any clutch material... yup, that explains the wheel spin!

One of our local serious CP guys runs a T-Lok and he rebuilds his twice a year. Once at the beginning between our first event and Spring Nationals and once right before nationals. I asked him which set of clutch packs he is using and he said he tried the carbon fiber packs and hated how they locked up so switched back to the organics. I believe he even uses the newer layout rather than some 4 clutch pack set up.

Chilema: Your words pretty much echo exactly my thoughts on the 5.0L in STX. It's simply too much of everything for the wheels and tires allowed. The 05-09 S197's start off lighter, significantly less power and have a slightly better weight distribution and would be better off in STX.

I'd like to ask, how far off were you from the top STU competitor? April 20th, the next FasTrack comes out that has the response to all of the "Move the pony cars to STU" letter. Hopefully we get moved as that would be a HUGE boon to these cars in ST.

Click to expand...

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=9291

I have been considering one of these, has those two extra bolts on there to hold the carrier bearings in there to help the clutch packs last longer.

Anyone know what Watts-Link this diff cover works with?

jayel579 said:

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=9291

I have been considering one of these, has those two extra bolts on there to hold the carrier bearings in there to help the clutch packs last longer.

Anyone know what Watts-Link this diff cover works with?

Click to expand...

None. All diff-mounted watts links come with their own cover.

jayel579 said:

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=9291

I have been considering one of these, has those two extra bolts on there to hold the carrier bearings in there to help the clutch packs last longer.

Anyone know what Watts-Link this diff cover works with?

Click to expand...

I don't think the bearing cap bolts are going to do much of anything to help with the clutch pack wear and tear since the bearings for the carrier don't contact or deal with the clutch packs in any way. It's also not legal (yet) until SM (and only under a "tortured interpretation" of their rules at that). Hopefully come April 20th we will know both if the S197 gets reclassed and if alternate diff covers for Live Axle cars will be legal.

Sky Render said:

None. All diff-mounted watts links come with their own cover.

Click to expand...

Whiskey11 said:

I don't think the bearing cap bolts are going to do much of anything to help with the clutch pack wear and tear since the bearings for the carrier don't contact or deal with the clutch packs in any way. It's also not legal (yet) until SM (and only under a "tortured interpretation" of their rules at that). Hopefully come April 20th we will know both if the S197 gets reclassed and if alternate diff covers for Live Axle cars will be legal.

Click to expand...

Ah thank you.

I really dont care about SCCA autocross legal, until you are beating a national champ, i.e. Strano or Madarash or Krauss no one is going to care what you are running. Local events, you'll be fine. I am not going to Lincoln. Solo rules are ridiculous anymore IMO but that is a completely different conversation and off topic of this thread.

jayel579 said:

Ah thank you.

I really dont care about SCCA autocross legal, until you are beating a national champ, i.e. Strano or Madarash or Krauss no one is going to care what you are running. Local events, you'll be fine. I am not going to Lincoln. Solo rules are ridiculous anymore IMO but that is a completely different conversation and off topic of this thread.

Click to expand...

That diff cover may work with the Fays2 or Steeda units but there isn't any real easy way to tell. It's a pretty tight fit with the bolt on the Fays2 unit to the stock cover, maybe an inch and a half tops.

As for competing locally, yeah, maybe. I guess I prefer to be on the correct side of the rules even at the local level since it means less swapping out parts when you do get that good at driving and want to go to a National event. Hopefully come April 20th this will all be a moot point anyway for 2014 at which point I'm sure most local regions wont care if you are already set for the 2014 rules.

Sadly for some of us (really just me here), going to Lincoln is our only choice for autocross in their region... because... well... my region only hosts event at the Nationals site now since the Nebraska Region has lost all of the remaining good sites and we have a few postage stamp lots that rarely see any action. I may or may not be spoiled though, and I do like to brag about it because it's just cool.

Whiskey11 said:

They don't last long... mine made it through a my Novice season and about half of my second season of autocrossing... by the time they were replaced the tech that did the replacement (powertrain warranty!) said the pucks the clutch packs sit on where completely bare of any clutch material... yup, that explains the wheel spin!

One of our local serious CP guys runs a T-Lok and he rebuilds his twice a year. Once at the beginning between our first event and Spring Nationals and once right before nationals. I asked him which set of clutch packs he is using and he said he tried the carbon fiber packs and hated how they locked up so switched back to the organics. I believe he even uses the newer layout rather than some 4 clutch pack set up.

Chilema: Your words pretty much echo exactly my thoughts on the 5.0L in STX. It's simply too much of everything for the wheels and tires allowed. The 05-09 S197's start off lighter, significantly less power and have a slightly better weight distribution and would be better off in STX.

I'd like to ask, how far off were you from the top STU competitor? April 20th, the next FasTrack comes out that has the response to all of the "Move the pony cars to STU" letter. Hopefully we get moved as that would be a HUGE boon to these cars in ST.

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I have been on the look out for such. Anxiously awaiting what will be said about moving to STU.

I was going to do STX myself, but after reading about all the other's attempts, I decided to skip out and go bigger in tire. I will be running to run in a street tire SM regional class and go with 285 RE-11's. Really looking forward to what a better tire (wider and stickier) will be like in comparison to the 255 Michelin SS tires I ran last season in FS RTR. I'm already noticing I can use more throttle and sooner on the street.