St-xta coil overs? Opinions???

[kcbrown]

In two years I've gone through two sets of Koni yellows. The struts just won't last apparently. So I'm looking for a replacement/upgrade. I was wondering if anyone has real world and track experience with the st-xta coil over kits? How was the daily driving characteristics? How do they hold up? Any posts telling me to buy $3,500 kits will be dismissed, that's definitely not in my budget.

I've got Koni yellows on my car and am wondering if this is what I can expect.

How did you have yours set, and what springs are you using them with? It sounds like yours died just through daily driving, something that actually doesn't surprise me all that much (since I would expect daily driving to work the dampers much harder than track driving because streets are generally much more irregular surfaces than tracks are).

 

[white86hatch]

I've got Koni yellows on my car and am wondering if this is what I can expect.

How did you have yours set, and what springs are you using them with? It sounds like yours died just through daily driving, something that actually doesn't surprise me all that much (since I would expect daily driving to work the dampers much harder than track driving because streets are generally much more irregular surfaces than tracks are).

Steeda sport springs. And set to full soft for daily driving. Anything more was too harsh for my better half to ride with me.

 

[csamsh]

I've got Koni yellows on my car and am wondering if this is what I can expect.

How did you have yours set, and what springs are you using them with? It sounds like yours died just through daily driving, something that actually doesn't surprise me all that much (since I would expect daily driving to work the dampers much harder than track driving because streets are generally much more irregular surfaces than tracks are).

Yeah probably. There is a crowd of Koni Yellow users (myself included) that take a shock off one day, and the shaft just pushes into the body and doesn't come back out, sees a leaky seal...etc....

Maybe they'll warranty it for you?

 

[claudermilk]

As long as my yellows last until I can save up for a set of the MCS coilovers Vorshlag offers I'm happy. I have a couple of sections of my daily commute with terrible washboard and the ride sucks. Otherwise, not bad, and what I am accustomed to with a lowering spring/shock combo.

 

[I am Legend]

I have to add a little commentary here. I first went with Yellows because at the time I got them at a price point that I couldn't say no. I had been autocrossing on stock struts for a while and thought for sure this had to be better. Also, being on forums like this and hearing the "rave" reviews of how these are the go to fix for S197 handling, I thought how could I go wrong.

My initial thoughts of them at my first event was only marginal. Obviously better rebound then the OEM crap but I had to play with adjustments for a while before I got something that "worked" for me.

I ran them for 4-5 months, 2-3 autocross a month, was fairly competitive in my region, but in the back of my mind I knew I needed to move off of this suspension for the long run. So I made the plan to take them off the car after my last event and move them down the road.

Also coinciding with all this the car developed a bunch of noise: bumps, pops, etc. Had guys at Vorshlag ride with me, help me isolate where the noise was coming from. I put the car up on the lifts about 3 times, checked and rechecked all the suspension to make sure everything was tight. The time came to take the yellows off the car, and much to my dismay found that one front, and one rear was toast. 4-5 months. I put the stocks back on. No pops, no noise.

I caught a lot of crap from people on other forums/FB talking bad about the almighty Koni but this was my experience. And answering phone calls all day about suspensions, I'm not the only one.

I always operate under the premise of buy the right part, even if its more expensive, the first time VS the wrong parts multiple times. I didn't follow my own advise and now I've got some shiny yellow parts for garage art. awesome.

I do work at Vorshlag, its no secret what we sell. I'm not going to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't buy, but if you are racing or want a suspension that can withstand "spirited" driving you honestly get what you pay for. Most coilovers on the market are good for getting your car low and look good which doesn't cost much, only a select few are truly performance minded.

 

[sheizasosay]

Any particular reason why your "garage art" can't be sent back to Koni, get repaired per the lifetime warranty and then sold?

 

[I am Legend]

Any particular reason why your "garage art" can't be sent back to Koni, get repaired per the lifetime warranty and then sold?

As mentioned, I bought them at a good price new in box, uninstalled...but from a forum member and not from a Koni dealer or from the manufacture. So unless Koni offers to honor the warranty second hand, I'm kinda stuck with them.

And secondly, even if they did get rebuilt I honestly do not want to sell them to anyone and have them be in the same boat potentially I was in, months/years down the road. I wont sell something that I cant endorse.

 

[kcbrown]

This has me wondering how many people have had their Koni yellow dampers actually last on this platform. People with other cars seem to be getting better reliability than you guys have from what I've been reading.

 

[jmauld]

This has me wondering how many people have had their Koni yellow dampers actually last on this platform. People with other cars seem to be getting better reliability than you guys have from what I've been reading.

All three of my failures were on other cars. One shock on an awd talon, two sets of front struts on a 240sx. I guess that is technically 5 failures.

 

[sheizasosay]

This has me wondering how many people have had their Koni yellow dampers actually last on this platform. People with other cars seem to be getting better reliability than you guys have from what I've been reading.

I went full soft on all four and sat on the trunk and then the front right fender and front left fender and watched the return. Then went firm on 1 damper at a time and did it again. It was blatantly obvious that the damping still worked great. I have about 10 hours of track time with the konis, but only about 6k street miles with fairly decent roads. I keep hearing about all the problems with konis, but the set I have must be put together by unicorns with arms and engineering degrees.

Edit- to be clear, I think Koni's, specifically the ones I have, are fantastic. I would also cover my Koni's in C4, drop them in a 55 gal drum of gasoline and stick a propane tank in front of the 55 gallon drum and shoot the propane tank with an incendiary round for a set of MCS coilovers.

 

[todcp]

I have owned more than six sets of Koni's including my current set over the years. Zero failures. The most mileage was over sixty thousand miles on a car that had been lowered one inch. I also had good luck with Bilsteins on my street cars and Vintage Formula Ford race car.
Koni says their standard sport shocks are good for 30-40 millimeters lowering but to be sure you are not bottoming the shocks nor removing or cutting down the bump stops.
Good points made above regarding too much lowering damaging shocks. That is why ground control has custom made Konis with shorter shafts for their kits.
The only performance shocks I have owned that were a challenge were Penske, remote reservoir, two way adj. They were on my FF race car and were over three thousand dollars and required expensive rebuilds way to often.
I will take my Koni's over spending over three thousand on better ones. I am not racing for trophies these days but rather teaching and enjoying track days.

 

[csamsh]

Edit- to be clear, I think Koni's, specifically the ones I have, are fantastic. I would also cover my Koni's in C4, drop them in a 55 gal drum of gasoline and stick a propane tank in front of the 55 gallon drum and shoot the propane tank with an incendiary round for a set of MCS coilovers.

Be sure to post that video

 

[sheizasosay]

Be sure to post that video

You bet.

 

[todcp]

High end AST shocks. From a BMW forum.
"I spoke to AST on the phone about this briefly in regard to the ASTs on my e36. They told me that they should last about 2 years doing 10 track events per year".
Really?? And we are concerned with Koni??

 

[I am Legend]

High end AST shocks. From a BMW forum.
"I spoke to AST on the phone about this briefly in regard to the ASTs on my e36. They told me that they should last about 2 years doing 10 track events per year".
Really?? And we are concerned with Koni??

Yes. Because koni are meant to be a performance oriented OE replacement. Something that can withstand normal use not needing rebuilds and not failing in short time periods.

AST and other high end suspension pieces are made to be rebuilt. Keeping there performance at the highest level possible. Think of it like funny car, or top fuel racing. Those guys run insanely high performance parts thus the engine rebuilds after 2 runs. Maintaining AST's with routine "rebuilds" keeps those shocks in peak form.

 

[Budwise]

Great post Terry. Got anything for S550's cookin yet?

 

[csamsh]

High end AST shocks. From a BMW forum.
"I spoke to AST on the phone about this briefly in regard to the ASTs on my e36. They told me that they should last about 2 years doing 10 track events per year".
Really?? And we are concerned with Koni??

Racecar parts require racecar maintenance.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Yes. Because koni are meant to be a performance oriented OE replacement. Something that can withstand normal use not needing rebuilds and not failing in short time periods.

AST and other high end suspension pieces are made to be rebuilt. Keeping there performance at the highest level possible. Think of it like funny car, or top fuel racing. Those guys run insanely high performance parts thus the engine rebuilds after 2 runs. Maintaining AST's with routine "rebuilds" keeps those shocks in peak form.

So far, what I'm getting out of this thread combined with my own experience is that Konis are limited in how much lowering they'll tolerate, and that there may not be a huge window of spring rates and amounts of lowering where they'll remain as durable as they seem to be with Ford's OE springs.


Norm

 

[DPE]

Not sure if this is a more recent development due to bad QC, or just more problematic on the S197 chassis when lowered, but as a former vendor I sold over 100 sets of Koni Sports for RX-8s and can only recall two issues being brought to my attention. Both of which were resolved by Koni. We also sold several sets for other cars (inserts for WRXs, a few sets for 350Zs, etc.), and on both stock and lowered cars they simply worked. I also had a set on my 2010 GT, but left it at OEM height, and the improvement in handling on both road and track was dramatic. With no significant ride penalty.

By no means am I cheerleading here, but rather just stating the facts based on my experience. I have no stake in Koni. I'll be trying a set along with Steeda upper mounts, Ford P springs and FRPP bumpstops on my 2014 come Spring, and continue to have no hesitation about doing so. Hopefully my confidence isn't shattered by failing shocks around this time next year .

Back to the original topic, I like the idea of those ST XTA coilovers and was considering them. I spoke with KW about them, and they said due to the spherical bearing upper mount one could expect some noise from time to time (and I'm annoyed by such noises, generally speaking). Additionally, having seen an S197 lowered on V3s at MAX recommended height (XTAs have the same lowering range specs as the V3s), well, it was pretty damned low. Looks great and all that, but for where I drive and my advancing age a car that much lower just looks like a pain in the ass. And get off my lawn, while you're at it! That said, I may end up with V3s if my Koni setup doesn't pan out and will just deal with it. Seems to be about the best setup out there if you don't want to get into 'race car parts with race car maintenance'.

 

[I am Legend]

Seems to be about the best setup out there if you don't want to get into 'race car parts with race car maintenance'.

If you want non "race car parts, no race car maintenance" and can live without having adjustments, but still have something worlds better then stock. I would go Bilsteins. Large inverted monotubes that can handle the weight of the S197, and have a shortened body allowing for for lowered springs with out loosing travel.