179F IAT, is this bad?

[Hatchman]

Running home yesterday in 95F, sunny weather, the IATs where running in the high 170s. I was like... WTF? Cylinder heat temp (CHT) and water temperature were both around 188F, like they usually are.

I can hear the intercooler water pump (IWP) running, since it is a loud little sucker. It's the original pump that came with the Kenne Bell kit, and it's always been louder than any water pump I've heard. Well, it has apparantly given up the ghost, because it's not so loud any more, and it's not pumping a bit of water. After all cooled down, took of the intercooler tank cap, started her up, and nothing is moving, dead calm. Checked the hoses, nothing seems to be kinked.

So, time to "upgrade". I've searched/read about putting on a Lightning water pump, but before I pull the trigger, anybody have any other suggestions?

I wonder how much timing the ECM is pulling with IATs that high?

UPDATE: Had an air bubble in the intercooler pump. Gave the heater hoses a couple of "pumps" / hand squeezes in a few spots and the bubble moved enough to prime the pump with water. All flows smoothly again.

 

[Brezick]

I thought the KB pump was the lightning pump...and mine looks like it pulls timing starting at 140. I have the afco dual H/E, larger IC tank, and stock IC pump, but i was thinking of changing the pump to a 20 GPM pump.

 

[Hatchman]

I thought the KB pump was the lightning pump...and mine looks like it pulls timing starting at 140. I have the afco dual H/E, larger IC tank, and stock IC pump, but i was thinking of changing the pump to a 20 GPM pump.

I remember reading back on 06-07 that some KB guys upgraded their KB kit pump with a Lightning pump and it was bigger/better/more flow. Maybe since then, KB has starting throwing the Lightning pump in the kit instead?

I had a 2004 Lightning, and the water pump looked similar, but was much, much quieter than the KB kit pump .

I'll find out soon, though, when I replace it.

 

[Hatchman]

I did a search from a forum that shall not be named.

They look a little different, at least back in 2008.

 

[dysan]

When I first put my e-force blower on and had the stock heat exchanger along with the pump shown on the left in your picture my IAT's would hit 180 at the end of a 1/4 run with 15psi of boost. Now with the Afco and a trunk tank with a 35gpm rule 2000 bilge pump I'll see 150-160 without ice in the tank.

You should be running little to no antifreeze this time of the year since water cools much better than antifreeze but of course you'll need to put some additive such as water wetter, royal purple ice or the Amsoil coolant boost.

Definitely upgrade to a better pump, flush the system out good and try running straight water with one of the treatments I listed above.

 

[Department Of Boost]

If your getting a new pump spend the extra few bucks to get one of these. They work a LOT better than any of the GT500, Lightning, Bosch pumps do.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEZ-WP136S/

You can never have too much pump. I was running the KB pump, then the 20gpm Meziere and now a 55gpm Meziere. Every step was an improvement.

I went completely overboard and had a custom heat exchanger made which is just over 3x bigger than the Afco Pro series, “fenced” everything in so the air going through the grills is forced through the coolers, sealed the HE to the radiator so not only does the 16” pusher fan move some serious air the stock radiator fan pulls all the way through the HE aiding in cooling. And if I could have fit more HE up front I would have gone bigger.

You can’t run em too cool. Screw blowers don’t make a lot of heat when at WOT compared to roots stuff. But they do make a lot of heat under normal driving conditions. They are hard to keep cool.

 

[Brezick]

If your getting a new pump spend the extra few bucks to get one of these. They work a LOT better than any of the GT500, Lightning, Bosch pumps do.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEZ-WP136S/

You can never have too much pump. I was running the KB pump, then the 20gpm Meziere and now a 55gpm Meziere. Every step was an improvement.

I was under the impression that too much was just as bad as too little, with the 20gpm pump being a happy medium.

 

[Hatchman]

I wonder if you can pump the water through the heat exchanger too fast, so it doesn't get a chance to cool down?

If your getting a new pump spend the extra few bucks to get one of these. They work a LOT better than any of the GT500, Lightning, Bosch pumps do.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEZ-WP136S/

You can never have too much pump. I was running the KB pump, then the 20gpm Meziere and now a 55gpm Meziere. Every step was an improvement.

I went completely overboard and had a custom heat exchanger made which is just over 3x bigger than the Afco Pro series, “fenced” everything in so the air going through the grills is forced through the coolers, sealed the HE to the radiator so not only does the 16” pusher fan move some serious air the stock radiator fan pulls all the way through the HE aiding in cooling. And if I could have fit more HE up front I would have gone bigger.

You can’t run em too cool. Screw blowers don’t make a lot of heat when at WOT compared to roots stuff. But they do make a lot of heat under normal driving conditions. They are hard to keep cool.

Wow, that is a serious heat exchanger! Makes the KB kit one look like a toy.

 

[Hatchman]

Might be a good time to go with the AFCO. Looks huge compared to the KB.

 

[S197gt07]

I was under the impression that too much was just as bad as too little, with the 20gpm pump being a happy medium.

You cant get too much pump because the restriction in the system is always going to be the intercooler of the actual blower.

Although the pump may be rated at 20gpm or 55gpm, the flow through the system won't be anywhere near that.

Go big or go home!

 

[Department Of Boost]

I was under the impression that too much was just as bad as too little, with the 20gpm pump being a happy medium.

I wonder if you can pump the water through the heat exchanger too fast, so it doesn't get a chance to cool down?

That is an urban myth. I had the Bell intercooler and Griffin radiator guys both confirm that it is complete BS.

And my own testing has backed it up. Every time I stepped up in pump size I pulled more heat out of the IC and IAT’s went down. I’m taking data post IC, post HE and IAT’s. I have a very clear picture of what is performing and what isn’t.

Now I will grant you that if you do not look at things as a system, set up accordingly and are only sampling IAT’s you will not see the improvements you are looking for. For example, if you run a bigger pump but don’t upgrade the heat exchanger you will not see a huge improvement in IAT’s. The bigger pump will strip more heat out of the IC and then dump it too the “too small” HE. The HE will not be able to keep up with the new “heat load” and the entire system will only perform as well as it’s weakest link, which most of the time is the HE. Hence the reason I went with such a large HE and a ton of cfm in fans.

I went through 4 heat exchangers to get to the one I am running now. The last 2 custom ones. IMO The Afco Pro, Raven Racing, etc dual fan HE’s are a bare minimum, especially on a screw blown car. When running HE’s that size my IAT’s were stupid high and once heat soaked the system could not be saved, short of parking the car you couldn’t get it to cool back down. Only now having gone over the top have the IAT’s been acceptable and the system will “recover” once heat soaked.

Making HP is easy. Keeping it cool under normal driving conditions (I would like the option of sitting through a few lights when it’s 80+deg out without the car going into a IAT death spiral) on the other hand is a completely different matter.

 

[Hatchman]

You cant get too much pump because the restriction in the system is always going to be the intercooler of the actual blower.

Although the pump may be rated at 20gpm or 55gpm, the flow through the system won't be anywhere near that.

Go big or go home!

That is an urban myth. I had the Bell intercooler and Griffin radiator guys both confirm that it is complete BS.

And my own testing has backed it up. Every time I stepped up in pump size I pulled more heat out of the IC and IAT’s went down. I’m taking data post IC, post HE and IAT’s. I have a very clear picture of what is performing and what isn’t.

Now I will grant you that if you do not look at things as a system, set up accordingly and are only sampling IAT’s you will not see the improvements you are looking for. For example, if you run a bigger pump but don’t upgrade the heat exchanger you will not see a huge improvement in IAT’s. The bigger pump will strip more heat out of the IC and then dump it too the “too small” HE. The HE will not be able to keep up with the new “heat load” and the entire system will only perform as well as it’s weakest link, which most of the time is the HE. Hence the reason I went with such a large HE and a ton of cfm in fans.

I went through 4 heat exchangers to get to the one I am running now. The last 2 custom ones. IMO The Afco Pro, Raven Racing, etc dual fan HE’s are a bare minimum, especially on a screw blown car. When running HE’s that size my IAT’s were stupid high and once heat soaked the system could not be saved, short of parking the car you couldn’t get it to cool back down. Only now having gone over the top have the IAT’s been acceptable and the system will “recover” once heat soaked.

Making HP is easy. Keeping it cool under normal driving conditions (I would like the option of sitting through a few lights when it’s 80+deg out without the car going into a IAT death spiral) on the other hand is a completely different matter.

Good info. Thank you! Go big, keep it cool.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Might be a good time to go with the AFCO. Looks huge compared to the KB.

That's not a bad HE at all, and they are priced pretty good right now. But having fans is HUGE if you want to drive your car like a normal car. For anything under 50-60mph you gotta have them (I've tested the speed threshold). The HE's don't radiate much heat when there is no air moving through them.

Even my big stupid HE wouldn't work well under normal driving conditions without the fans.

 

[JeremyH]

Move this to tech! lol

Gmitch thats an awesome setup you built there!

 

[Department Of Boost]

Move this to tech! lol

Gmitch thats an awesome setup you built there!

Thanks, I'm pretty happy with it at this point. When I drop the 3.4L Whipple on there and can lower the blower speeds it should be good enough to do some open track events and 200+mph runs without eating itself.

I have to give 908SSP his due though. He was more than a big part of the whole fabrication process. And he put a lot of hours in on it.

 

[crownaviation]

"Cool".. LOL!

 

[YoungPony]

Is there a lager heat exchanger on the market then the Afco with twin fans?

 

[Department Of Boost]

Is there a lager heat exchanger on the market then the Afco with twin fans?

Nope, not yet. Maybe by the first of the year. Its in prototype right now.

 

[stkjock]

Is there a lager heat exchanger on the market then the Afco with twin fans?

Nope, not yet. Maybe by the first of the year. Its in prototype right now.

Isn't the C&R/Shelby unit larger?

 

[19COBRA93]

I'd just like to add, or confirm, that you cannot have too much flow. The more flow, the better the cooling. Simple fact.

Also, fans. Absolutely fans. I have my fans (Afco dual pass/dual fan) and pump wired to a switch so I can turn them on while sitting in the staging lanes with the engine off. It cools the whole system down to near ambient by my next run.

The Afco and C&R/Shelby units are similar in size, but according to C&R, their cores are better.