2V vs. 3V 4.6

[Renesis07]

I've been seeing '05 GTs in the local craigslist for between 8-10k. That's a helluva car for the money.

Yep, they're plummeting in price. My 06 will probably be listed around $13,995 after the used car inspection and prep.

 

[d3vst8r96gt]

There is a guy running 12s with a stock motor.... Key is suspension

 

[tjm73]

I saw a magazine article in 5.0 a few months ago about swapping a 3V into a New Edge. It actually looked pretty easy, and there are kits to make everything bolt up and plug in. I think if you install limiters in the 3V, you can actually use the stock 2V's computer to control it.

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/te...mance_logan_motorsports_swap_kit/viewall.html

Just over 310 hp and 345 ft-lbs at the wheels with Hot Rods. The engine is stock spec otherwise.

 

[s8v4o]

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/te...mance_logan_motorsports_swap_kit/viewall.html

Just over 310 hp and 345 ft-lbs at the wheels with Hot Rods. The engine is stock spec otherwise.

Sort of otherwise stock , seems like they did a little more than just a cam swap.

"The combination of the CMRC delete plates, our high-flow air intake, a better combustion chamber, and larger intake-valve area with the Three-Valve heads also allowed us to be more aggressive on air and fuel in the tune," Keith says. "DeWayne has spent countless hours with cars on the dyno and the street developing a tune that incorporates driveability and performance."

 

[tjm73]

Sort of otherwise stock , seems like they did a little more than just a cam swap.

"The combination of the CMRC delete plates, our high-flow air intake, a better combustion chamber, and larger intake-valve area with the Three-Valve heads also allowed us to be more aggressive on air and fuel in the tune," Keith says. "DeWayne has spent countless hours with cars on the dyno and the street developing a tune that incorporates driveability and performance."

Hmmmm...

In the photo captions it says it's the now unavailable 4.6 Hot Rod crate engine.

 

[weather man]

Hmmmm...

In the photo captions it says it's the now unavailable 4.6 Hot Rod crate engine.

I think that engine still had the crappy stock rods in it.

 

[s8v4o]

Hmmmm...

In the photo captions it says it's the now unavailable 4.6 Hot Rod crate engine.

They even show picture of longtubes so I'm not sure what all is included for the kit/advertised numbers.

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/te...mance_logan_motorsports_swap_kit/viewall.html

 

[tjm73]

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=10584

• Look no further for the ultimate Ford "hot rod" engine, perfect for your street rod or kit car!
• 350 hp @ 6200 rpm, 330 lb-ft @ 4500 rpm on 93 octane fuel
• Complete 4.6L-3V Mustang engine assembly
• Aluminum block and cylinder heads
• Composite intake manifold for light weight and intake charge temp reduction
• Features:
  • Throaty Mustang GT High Lift Hot Rod Cam SetM-6550-3V
  • Blue Powder Coated 3V Cam Covers M-6582-3VB
• Includes manual transmission engine harness and flywheel
• Includes power steering pump and pulley, A/C Delete, accessory drive belt
• Weighs in at only 435 lbs dressed!
• Vehicle harnesses and PCM not included
• Use our NEW wiring, PCM, and installation kit M-6017-463V for easy install in any body style

 

[Sky Render]

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/te...mance_logan_motorsports_swap_kit/viewall.html

Just over 310 hp and 345 ft-lbs at the wheels with Hot Rods. The engine is stock spec otherwise.

That's the one!

I would totally do that to a New Edge.

 

[s8v4o]

That's the one!

I would totally do that to a New Edge.

It's no longer available though.

 

[Sky Render]

It's no longer available though.

The conversion kit isn't available? What?

 

[s8v4o]

The conversion kit isn't available? What?

Not sure about a conversion kit but the 350HP package from Ford Motorsports isn't that was in that link he provided.

 

[Sky Render]

Not sure about a conversion kit but the 350HP package from Ford Motorsports isn't that was in that link he provided.

I was talking about the conversion kit in the magazine article that was linked. Who cares if you can't get the crate motor from Ford. You get the conversion kit and a 3V out of a wrecked S197 or from one of the many engine builders here. Boom, done.

 

[2001GT3v]

There is a conversion kit still available. It's with Logan motorsports. You can use the 2v ecu and harness. Very easy to do and he sends you all the instructions. If you do a search here you can find my old thread on the swap.
Here is a link to Logan motorsports 3v swap.
http://www.loganmotorsports.com/2V_to_3V_conversion.html

 

[702GT]

There is a conversion kit still available. It's with Logan motorsports. You can use the 2v ecu and harness. Very easy to do and he sends you all the instructions. If you do a search here you can find my old thread on the swap.
Here is a link to Logan motorsports 3v swap.
http://www.loganmotorsports.com/2V_to_3V_conversion.html

Lets not forget the 3v cam run on a 2v ecu. No VCT. Locking out a 3v cam that has advance built into the grind really hurts peak power. Unless you degree the cams you are stuck with an over-advanced cam. Seeing my 127020's make 270whp made me want to blow chunks!

 

[Five Oh Brian]

The 2V's (99+) only made 260 hp, but they also made 300+ lb ft torque (almost as much torque as the 3V's). And, the New Edge GT's only weighed about 3200 lbs (my '00 GT coupe, man trans, weighed 3,180, for example). My '00 GT completely 100% bone stock on street tires ran a best 1/4 mile of 13.85 @ 99 with several 13.9's for back up. I never modded that car, but it would have taken 100 more hp to drop a second off its ET's.

 

[d3vst8r96gt]

The 2V's (99+) only made 260 hp, but they also made 300+ lb ft torque (almost as much torque as the 3V's). And, the New Edge GT's only weighed about 3200 lbs (my '00 GT coupe, man trans, weighed 3,180, for example). My '00 GT completely 100% bone stock on street tires ran a best 1/4 mile of 13.85 @ 99 with several 13.9's for back up. I never modded that car, but it would have taken 100 more hp to drop a second off its ET's.

Not true.... suspension work gears and some tire alone can do that

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[05yellowgt]

Not true.... suspension work gears and some tire alone can do that

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And weight reduction, weight reduction, weight reduction. Another buddy had a mid 12 2v that was all about suspension, gearing and weight reduction. It also helped that he launched that fucker off the rev limiter too.

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[Mr. WHO]

Heres what you can with a simple stock rebuild with forged internals, then go alittle more after with a 2v. This is sleeper so drool carefully.
http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483097

This is something I read awhile ago, but still works with most cars.

Five Components to a 12 second NA GT

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Before reading on I just want to say that this is basically geared towards drag racers not your average enthusiast looking for 12s on street tires with no real changes to the car. Not that it cant be applied to someone looking for that but this is geared more towards the people out there looking for 12s and willing to work for it.

1.) Power - If you listen to some old school drag racers they may say you need at least 300+RWHP to hit 12s in most cars. In some heavier cars that may be true but fact is suspension are more refined these days and cars dont weight 4,000 lbs. Most PI headed cars will hit the 245-255RWHP mark with basic mods (Pulleys, Timing Adjuster or chip, O/R H or X, K&N or other type of high flow filter and although not a power mod, gears 4.10s or 4.30s). For a bolt on GT this is enough power to get the car into the 12s after you follow the other steps. Keep in mind more power will make it easier to reach your goal or help offset more weight (see next section) but it can be done with less.


2.) Weight - You basic 5 speed coupe without driver weights 3250lbs. So with an average driver weighing about 180lbs that puts your race weight at 3430lbs. At that weight and a power to weight ratio of .075 you would need 258RWHP to hit 12s. Power to weight is the power of your car (rear wheel) divided by race weight of the car. Using my car when I broke into the 12s first time I was making 246RWHP and had a race weight of 3250lb, which worked out to a .075 power to weight ratio or .075RWHP per pound of the car. From what Ive seen a car can get into the 12s with a .075 to .080 P/W ratio. So if your race weight is 3430lbs then 3430 * .075 = 257.25RWHP. As long as you keep this ratio in the .075 to .080 range you are fine plus keep in mind you can drop weight instead of adding power. An example of this is a car with a 3000lb race weight could break into the 12s with 225RWHP (close to stock power on a GT).

Now Im sure some of you are asking about weight reduction. Basic weight reduction would be rear seat delete, removal of spare tire, jack, tire iron, these would knock a good 70-80lbs from the car. Add a set of welds or light weight race wheels and you are looking at another 60 - 80 pounds.

3.) Suspension - I feel that this component has the most leeway so to speak. Ive seen near stock suspension cars get good weight transfer. I honestly believe a car that meets the other requirements could hit 12s on the stock suspension. However those of you that want to get an edge should read on. First thing I would do is look at springs since most of us want a better stance but still want weight transfer. For that look at fox body 4cyl front springs I usually look to the junkyards for these but most buy stock replacements at a local shop (avoid Moog brand though they are taller than stock specs). For the rear end I go with fox body V8 rear springs cut anywhere from a 1/4 to 1 coil to level out the car. Just keep in mind that its easier to cut too little than too much spring.

Next I would highly recommend a pair of sub-frame connectors welded in to tie the chassis together. Hard launches on slicks will twist the body and this will help keep it straight. Last piece to really help out is struts I went with Lakewoods because they are readily available and affordable but adjustables can be used as well if you have the budget for them. 70/30s and 90/10s both work well and I stick with fox body specific struts since the car is lowered. Fox body specific springs are 3/4 shorter than stock SN-95 springs so the lower fox body specific struts are shorter.

4.) Traction - Ill cut to the chase here and just skip over street tires and drag radials and go right to slicks. Not that it cant be done on these tires but it will take more power, more patience and much more writing on my part so well stick to slicks. Cars in this weight range and power level only need a 26x8.5x15 ET Drag for traction. Its close to stock tire height and is more than enough to make our cars hook on the track. A better suspension will result in better 60 foot times but even on stock suspension a good burnout on slicks will not spin unless the track is poorly prepped or fluids are on the track. Some people opt for cheap steel wheels which I dont necessarily recommend since you are keeping extra weight on the axles. This opens you up for possible breakage so I would go with a Weld Wheel instead even if its a pair of used ones for track only purposes. Regardless a 15x8 with 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern and 5.5 backspacing will fit perfect, or if you insist on a wider tire like a 10 then a 15x10 with 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern and 6.5 backspacing will also work on our cars.

5.) Practice - This is one component that you cant buy at any store, you cant learn it from a text book and you cant ask your friends about you simply have to get out there. Im not saying everyone should be like me and hit every test and tune but dont expect to make one trip and bingo your in the 12s. I race on slicks for 3 months before hitting my first 12 second pass. Going to slicks alone was a big change that I had to adjust to before I got the hang of and learned to shift better, etc.. Take your time, get comfortable in the car and have fun with it. Do that and youll achieve your goal.

Now that you know the key components to get into the 12s you have to keep it all together. In the above situation I would highly recommend an aftermarket shifter just to help keep the transmission alive longer. The biggest weakness in the above is the differential and axles. Not to say they cant take some abuse because they can, mine went almost a full year of launches on slicks before breaking. I would look at a set of 31 spline axles and an Eaton or Ford 31 spline differential beefed up to keep the back end in one piece.

This write up was done by Bill Putnam.