ABS and Open Track Tech

mitch

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I did a quick search for ABS in this specific section but didnt come up with much. If its been covered, please point me in the right direction.

The car.
2007 GT

New Parts
Maximum Motorsports Road and Track Grip box
GT500 Brakes, DTC 70 pads.
GT500 Wheels, BFG R1 tires

This will be my third time running this car but the first time with all these parts.

I'm driving around my neighborhood and it feels like the ABS is hitting very early. I would guess about 60-70% braking maybe?

Is this normal? and, I think I recall reading somewhere about guys pulling the ABS fuse?? yes? no?? Just to try it both ways??

Anyone else have ABS hitting very early??

In my 2000 GT, I almost never hit abs, and i brake kinda hard.

tia for any info.

Will be on track all day Thursday :crazy:
 

SoundGuyDave

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Okay, a few things... First, you're running REALLY sticky tires and VERY aggressive race pads (very high initial bite) for the first time, so yes, there will be a recalibration of your foot needed.

Here are the factors that are causing your "early ABS activation:"

1) DOT-R tires. They need heat in them to reach peak grip, and until you get that heat in them, they will act like a fairly slippery tire, and break loose, triggering an ABS event. No, you can't get them hot enough "driving around the neighborhood" unless you're driving like an irresponsible ass-hat. Don't do it.

2) DTC-70 is the most aggressive compound Hawk makes in track-day pads, and even cold, has pretty high initial bite. At "neighborhood" speeds, it's not surprising to me that they may lock up a wheel or two, triggering an ABS event. Also, you may not have an optimized brake package on the car. What rear pads are you running? I run DTC-60 square (GT500 14" fronts, stock rears), and feel that the front/rear balance is almost perfect. I've run DTC-70s up front, and with "only" DTC-60 in back, the bias was a little to far forward for my tastes. Additionally, the DTC compounds need a little bit of heat in them before they really get linear. Cold, the DTC-60 just sucks, with little bite and very high pedal effort. Once you get heat in them, though, they grab HARD. The DTC-70 is just a more aggressive version of that, with a bit more initial bite. Is it possible that when the pads are cold (which they will be when at neighborhood speeds) you're effectively biasing the brake system to the rear, and initiating lockup (and thus ABS) with the unloaded rears? Just asking... When you get your stuff hot, also keep an eye on getting too much front bias in the brakes. If the rear end starts wagging hard under braking, you might want to step up the rear pad, or drop the front pad coefficient of friction.

I think that once you get a half-lap of warmup under your belt and the tires and brakes start to come in, that you'll be a lot happier with the responsiveness of your middle pedal. Easiest way to get heat into them on your out-lap is to sharply accelerate in 2nd gear from around 3000rpm right up to 6000 or so, then mash the brake pedal to drop back down again. Lather, rinse, repeat. And repeat. And repeat... Shoot for 8-12 iterations of that cycle, minimum. After a half-lap or so of that, you'll have plenty of heat in the brakes, and will start to develop heat in the tires, as well.

Oh, and before anybody asks, no, that slow weaving back and forth won't do squat for either warming up your junk or scrubbing the tires clean. Both of those require very sharp control inputs, usually simultaneous brake or gas and steering lock, essentially instigating an understeer or oversteer event. The goal is to slide the tire and let the friction scrub off the crap and build heat. If you're not sliding them, you're doing nothing functional.
 
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Mike Rousch

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Dave,
You are correct with what you are saying, about driving around the neighborhood on track tires/brakes.
However, I've done a couple events since, and I cant brake as hard and late as I normally do with out the ABS hitting.

I figured I'd post this... I think I found the solution.

FR500S ABS Module
http://www.rehagenracingproducts.com/FR500S-ABS-MODULE-M-2353-A.htm

That does help, But you are going to need the GT500 HCU also. Sometimes Rehagen has them used.
 

mitch

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Ooh, Okay.. Did not know that.
Ya, I couldnt brake nearly as hard and late as I'm use do. Have to figure something out.
 

Mike Rousch

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Norm Peterson

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Dave,
You are correct with what you are saying, about driving around the neighborhood on track tires/brakes.
However, I've done a couple events since, and I cant brake as hard and late as I normally do with out the ABS hitting.

I figured I'd post this... I think I found the solution.

FR500S ABS Module
http://www.rehagenracingproducts.com/FR500S-ABS-MODULE-M-2353-A.htm
Which end of the car is the ABS playing with? Sounds like either braking is too aggressive at that end or not aggressive enough at the other.

Has your "muscle memory" fully recalibrated itself to pads with high initial bite in that particular car?

What have temperatures been at these last couple of events? You might still have a tires-not-up-to-full-temperature issue. I'm sure I was getting into this at my last track day with temps in the low to mid 40°s especially on the early laps in each session. Michelin PSS, FWIW.


Norm
 
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mitch

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Dev,
Great information there, Thanks.
However, the ABS Module I'm looking at is the FR500s, not GT500 part.
 

DevGittinJr

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Mitch, just for clarity, the link I posted is both the ecu/hcu. Midway Mustang sells them together for $200, used. You still need the GT500 hcu for the FR500S ecu, and this is the cheapest I've seen it.
 

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