Backroads corner-carving: What kind of setup for fun/safety/performance

[sheizasosay]

That was BEFORE the school zone.

And it was summer.

And I rule.

A man builds a thousand bridges.....

 

[csamsh]

That's a good start! For just a street car, you don't REALLY need camber plates, but if you end up doing any track days or autocross, you'll want some.

Yes, your LCA geometry will be screwed up when you lower, hence the need for relocation brackets. It may not be to bad with the pro kit springs...just wait and see what you think. You honestly may not notice anything at all

 

[Department Of Boost]

you're gonna fly off a mountain

First thing that popped in my head.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Yes, your LCA geometry will be screwed up when you lower, hence the need for relocation brackets. It may not be to bad with the pro kit springs...just wait and see what you think. You honestly may not notice anything at all

I get exactly why drop brackets are a good idea for maximum performance. I have some on the 07'. That said I ran that car for a long time hard before I put them on. Are they better? For sure. Are they a deal killer when smoking down some back roads? Absolutely not. I even had zero issues going fast without them at the track.

IMO Unless racing is part of the equation most suspension stuff falls under " nice to have" and not so much "needed". Even less "needed" on the street.

 

[Boaisy]

This ***** bout to fly off a mountain yo

Fixed.

 

[mrgtx]

I get exactly why drop brackets are a good idea for maximum performance. I have some on the 07'. That said I ran that car for a long time hard before I put them on. Are they better? For sure. Are they a deal killer when smoking down some back roads? Absolutely not. I even had zero issues going fast without them at the track.

IMO Unless racing is part of the equation most suspension stuff falls under " nice to have" and not so much "needed". Even less "needed" on the street.

Interesting.
The brackets are typically not terribly expensive. How does the difference show up?

 

[Sky Render]

Interesting.
The brackets are typically not terribly expensive. How does the difference show up?

Roll steer.

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArtic...ptimizing-Weight-Transfer-and-Roll-Steer.aspx

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk

 

[dontlifttoshift]

Meh......So is your weight transfer and roll steer more optimized with the BMR parts?

OP, you did just fine, you will be happy with those upgrades, now sign up for a track day somewhere and get some seat time.

 

[Sky Render]

Meh......So is your weight transfer and roll steer more optimized with the BMR parts?

OP, you did just fine, you will be happy with those upgrades, now sign up for a track day somewhere and get some seat time.

Yes, because the BMR ones I use have rod ends.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Department Of Boost]

Interesting.
The brackets are typically not terribly expensive. How does the difference show up?

I've found that without the brackets the "cushion" between oversteer and hooked up is a lot wider. It also makes managing oversteer easier. This works well with how I like to drive. I push the front in a little, rotate in the middle and induce slight oversteer on the way out. If I were going for ultimate lap times I would do it differently, but I'm not so I would rather do it more fun. Plus, this is how you ride motorcycles really fast so it fits with how I have been going around the track for years.

My 2007 has brackets on it now.

 

[claudermilk]

This is interesting info just days before my first track day with suspension upgrades installed. I will definitely be taking it easy, feeling out how the car handles now vs the previous day on all stock suspension. Remaining in the beginner group will help (I know I'll be simply cruising down the straights as I'm likely to be among the more powerful/hardest pushed cars in my group).

 

[ExSRT8Guy]

I've done a few track days, but none in this car yet. Also raced motorcycles for a bunch of years. That said, I like having fun in the twisties, keeping it all sane; I don't want to endanger anyone else, or myself, either.

My current setup is P springs, GT500 upper mounts, Tokico D-Specs 5 turns out, BMR front sway bar (on middle setting) and rear poly LCAs and adjustable PHB, FRPP rear sway bar. Toe is set to factory, camber is 1/2 degree negative. 255/45 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S on 18 x 8.5 Enkei Tenjin, 30mm offset.

With this setup, it's a hoot to drive. Corners nice and flat, and it's easy to rotate. Ride is a bit on the harsh side, but I'm OK with it, and squat/dive are minimal.

My $.02 on the Pro-Kit springs: Had 'em in before the P springs, hated 'em. Lower than a street car needs to be; didn't care for the ride/handling (or the stance, which is even more subjective) at all.

Lastly, the sway bars made a huge difference; they were the last suspension mod I added. Money very well spent.

Have fun!

 

[Boaisy]

I've done a few track days, but none in this car yet. Also raced motorcycles for a bunch of years. That said, I like having fun in the twisties, keeping it all sane; I don't want to endanger anyone else, or myself, either.

My current setup is P springs, GT500 upper mounts, Tokico D-Specs 5 turns out, BMR front sway bar (on middle setting) and rear poly LCAs and adjustable PHB, FRPP rear sway bar. Toe is set to factory, camber is 1/2 degree negative. 255/45 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S on 18 x 8.5 Enkei Tenjin, 30mm offset.

With this setup, it's a hoot to drive. Corners nice and flat, and it's easy to rotate. Ride is a bit on the harsh side, but I'm OK with it, and squat/dive are minimal.

My $.02 on the Pro-Kit springs: Had 'em in before the P springs, hated 'em. Lower than a street car needs to be; didn't care for the ride/handling (or the stance, which is even more subjective) at all.

Lastly, the sway bars made a huge difference; they were the last suspension mod I added. Money very well spent.

Have fun!

You sure you aren't talking about the Sportline springs? Pro-Kit only lowers it by 1.50" at the most, and IIRC some of the FRPP spring kits are Eibach anyways.

 

[Sky Render]

You'd be surprised how many vendors' springs are actually made by Eibach...

 

[Department Of Boost]

I've done a few track days, but none in this car yet. Also raced motorcycles for a bunch of years. That said, I like having fun in the twisties, keeping it all sane; I don't want to endanger anyone else, or myself, either.

My current setup is P springs, GT500 upper mounts, Tokico D-Specs 5 turns out, BMR front sway bar (on middle setting) and rear poly LCAs and adjustable PHB, FRPP rear sway bar. Toe is set to factory, camber is 1/2 degree negative. 255/45 Michelin Pilot Sport A/S on 18 x 8.5 Enkei Tenjin, 30mm offset.

With this setup, it's a hoot to drive. Corners nice and flat, and it's easy to rotate. Ride is a bit on the harsh side, but I'm OK with it, and squat/dive are minimal.

My $.02 on the Pro-Kit springs: Had 'em in before the P springs, hated 'em. Lower than a street car needs to be; didn't care for the ride/handling (or the stance, which is even more subjective) at all.

Lastly, the sway bars made a huge difference; they were the last suspension mod I added. Money very well spent.

Have fun!

Those Eibach Pro progressive springs are absolute crap. I put them on.....then pulled them off.

 

[ExSRT8Guy]

You sure you aren't talking about the Sportline springs? Pro-Kit only lowers it by 1.50" at the most, and IIRC some of the FRPP spring kits are Eibach anyways.

Positive. I think the Pro-Kit is similar to - if not the same as - K springs. A stock Shelby GT looks pretty much the same as mine did, and those came with K springs, IIRC.

 

[mrgtx]

So is there a consensus that the Eibach Pro springs are crap?

Thanks to all for the input...I'm going to order the Whiteline relocation brackets. It looks like installation is very simple and they're cheap enough.

 

[Department Of Boost]

So is there a consensus that the Eibach Pro springs are crap?

They're worse than that.

 

[DPE]

In terms of people who live in Kansas, I'm a 1%er as far as driving in the twisties. By that I mean it's tough to find much day to day, but a few guys and I have an annual 'fishing' trip to the Ozarks every year (easier to say fishing than telling people that you and your buddies are going to all take separate sporting cars to southern MO and northern AR to drive on deserted backroads) that we've done since 2002, and every other year or so we'll head to Colorado or Utah etc. to partake in the mountain/canyon roads for a few days. I've done this in everything from an STI (immense speed is easy) to an RX-8 (chassis of the gods) to a modded TSX (better than you'd think) to my current too-stock 5.0 (slightly terrifying). Just so you know where I'm coming from.

In terms of twisties, confidence is your best friend and is something a stock Mustang, Brembo or otherwise, simply doesn't provide. The vast majority of the problem, I believe, is shocks. I believe this because on my 2010 GT I installed Konis on stock springs, along with Steeda upper mounts and a square tire setup with 275/40/18 all around. Even with uninspired but ever cheap and trustworthy Sumitomo HTRZIIIs, the improvement was night and day. Prior to that, I always felt like I was sitting 'on' the chassis, always trying to read through the slop what the car was going to do, and not really being entirely comfortable at an admittedly rapid pace. After the shocks and other tweaks, the car communicated vastly better, and I could just get in and drive and really enjoy myself as a part of the car and not as an interested bystander trying to control a machine.

Also being one to enjoy a few track days, I think a lot of what you want between road and track is the same with a few caveats. (NOTE: If you are COMPETING on track or in autox, I know well and good that the wants/needs become quite a bit more divergent between road and track. However, for those of us who just want to enjoy track days a few times per year AND want to enjoy the car in the twisties, and day to day, and on road trips, etc., you can make a car that works reasonably well everywhere). Generally, you want the car stiffer, more responsive, and more communicative. The difference to me is that on track you need more front camber and generally want the car close to neutral. On the road, in a car like the Mustang, I like to have a whiff of understeer dialed into the chassis and a little more planted rear end under braking to keep things in line if something unexpected happens mid-corner. But you can solve a lot of that with camber adjustability up front. The other factor is how quickly things happen. Generally I like quicker response than my mostly stock 5.0 right now, but if you go too stiff on sways/shocks/springs I think you could get into a car that is a little too twitchy to be comfortable on an unfamiliar (or familiar) twisty.

Anyway, that's more than anyone wanted to read I suspect. Sounds like you're on a similar track to myself OP, in terms of mods, so I think just do what you've got coming and then add a part here or there if you feel there is a deficiency. I've got my square tire setup already, and will be going with P springs, Konis, BMR Poly panhard, FRPP jounce bumpers and Steeda mounts up front. I may start and end there, or I may look at things like LCAs and Relos etc. Maybe even a Watts, in time. But those Bilsteins, I believe, will be the biggest difference-maker for you, and with the other stuff you're putting on will make a pretty huge difference overall. I don't feel like the car needs more swaybar for road and light track use (I think my 2014 could use a little less at the rear, honestly), but there are some who would tell you otherwise.

Also, even with a Brembo car, if you are fairly aggressive on back roads you can get into some brake issues. I have Motul RBF600 fluid in mine, but the OEM pads were showing a bit of fade on our last trip and are about shot in 10k miles (I run race pads on track). So upgraded pads and fluid wouldn't be a bad idea, and certainly can't hurt anything. I also have brake cooling.

And last, the factory tune on my 2010 GT honestly felt good. The motor was responsive and simply did what you told it to. The 2014 GT is less good in that respect. Strong like bull, yes, but the motor feels very 'managed' in stock form. Just did the FRPP power pack with the flash and the K&N filter and GT500 mufflers, and it's MUCH better. I don't even care if it doesn't have any more power or torque (and I think it does), the response and linearity is enough to make it worthwhile. Which also helps confidence in the twisties when you are working with this much power.

 

[mrgtx]

In terms of people who live in Kansas, I'm a 1%er as far as driving in the twisties. By that I mean it's tough to find much day to day, but a few guys and I have an annual 'fishing' trip to the Ozarks every year (easier to say fishing than telling people that you and your buddies are going to all take separate sporting cars to southern MO and northern AR to drive on deserted backroads) that we've done since 2002, and every other year or so we'll head to Colorado or Utah etc. to partake in the mountain/canyon roads for a few days. I've done this in everything from an STI (immense speed is easy) to an RX-8 (chassis of the gods) to a modded TSX (better than you'd think) to my current too-stock 5.0 (slightly terrifying). Just so you know where I'm coming from.

In terms of twisties, confidence is your best friend and is something a stock Mustang, Brembo or otherwise, simply doesn't provide. The vast majority of the problem, I believe, is shocks. I believe this because on my 2010 GT I installed Konis on stock springs, along with Steeda upper mounts and a square tire setup with 275/40/18 all around. Even with uninspired but ever cheap and trustworthy Sumitomo HTRZIIIs, the improvement was night and day. Prior to that, I always felt like I was sitting 'on' the chassis, always trying to read through the slop what the car was going to do, and not really being entirely comfortable at an admittedly rapid pace. After the shocks and other tweaks, the car communicated vastly better, and I could just get in and drive and really enjoy myself as a part of the car and not as an interested bystander trying to control a machine.

Also being one to enjoy a few track days, I think a lot of what you want between road and track is the same with a few caveats. (NOTE: If you are COMPETING on track or in autox, I know well and good that the wants/needs become quite a bit more divergent between road and track. However, for those of us who just want to enjoy track days a few times per year AND want to enjoy the car in the twisties, and day to day, and on road trips, etc., you can make a car that works reasonably well everywhere). Generally, you want the car stiffer, more responsive, and more communicative. The difference to me is that on track you need more front camber and generally want the car close to neutral. On the road, in a car like the Mustang, I like to have a whiff of understeer dialed into the chassis and a little more planted rear end under braking to keep things in line if something unexpected happens mid-corner. But you can solve a lot of that with camber adjustability up front. The other factor is how quickly things happen. Generally I like quicker response than my mostly stock 5.0 right now, but if you go too stiff on sways/shocks/springs I think you could get into a car that is a little too twitchy to be comfortable on an unfamiliar (or familiar) twisty.

Anyway, that's more than anyone wanted to read I suspect. Sounds like you're on a similar track to myself OP, in terms of mods, so I think just do what you've got coming and then add a part here or there if you feel there is a deficiency. I've got my square tire setup already, and will be going with P springs, Konis, BMR Poly panhard, FRPP jounce bumpers and Steeda mounts up front. I may start and end there, or I may look at things like LCAs and Relos etc. Maybe even a Watts, in time. But those Bilsteins, I believe, will be the biggest difference-maker for you, and with the other stuff you're putting on will make a pretty huge difference overall. I don't feel like the car needs more swaybar for road and light track use (I think my 2014 could use a little less at the rear, honestly), but there are some who would tell you otherwise.

Also, even with a Brembo car, if you are fairly aggressive on back roads you can get into some brake issues. I have Motul RBF600 fluid in mine, but the OEM pads were showing a bit of fade on our last trip and are about shot in 10k miles (I run race pads on track). So upgraded pads and fluid wouldn't be a bad idea, and certainly can't hurt anything. I also have brake cooling.

And last, the factory tune on my 2010 GT honestly felt good. The motor was responsive and simply did what you told it to. The 2014 GT is less good in that respect. Strong like bull, yes, but the motor feels very 'managed' in stock form. Just did the FRPP power pack with the flash and the K&N filter and GT500 mufflers, and it's MUCH better. I don't even care if it doesn't have any more power or torque (and I think it does), the response and linearity is enough to make it worthwhile. Which also helps confidence in the twisties when you are working with this much power.

Awesome feedback, Phil! Thanks for that insight...i can only imagine that you guys have a blast on your "fishing trip!"