Bolt in/Weld in Roll bars

[AutoXRacer]

We don't do any cage work here, and we are very particular when working with other shops on building a cage in our drag cars. We have used Carroll's Rod and Racecraft, Rhodes Custom, and Joe Gambino. All top names in the drag racing world.

I was looking into the Watson Racing 4 point bolt in cage as the customer is most likely just doing some track event days and not anything competitive.

http://shop.watsonracing.com/ROLL-BAR-MUSTANG-2005-14-p/wr-boltincage.htm

This is the roll bar I just ordered!!!
I love the fact its totally reversible and minimal damage to the interior.
The designer of this bar has plenty of experience with the MM 4-point bar as he ran it for quite a long time and improved on its design for street part time track duty cars.

It has a cool feature that allows you to remove it to restore the car to 100% street duty in between track days. Although I'll be leaving mine in there permanently; but not welding it in.

I also ordered their custom carpet which makes for a really clean install.

 

[claudermilk]

This is the roll bar I just ordered!!!
I love the fact its totally reversible and minimal damage to the interior.
The designer of this bar has plenty of experience with the MM 4-point bar as he ran it for quite a long time and improved on its design for street part time track duty cars.

It has a cool feature that allows you to remove it to restore the car to 100% street duty in between track days. Although I'll be leaving mine in there permanently; but not welding it in.

I also ordered their custom carpet which makes for a really clean install.

Wait....what?! I swear I looked at their bars and decided to pass as they looked quite permanent & the MM at least looked to leave the rear seats somewhat usable. You have my attention. Post on your install & thoughts. This may be a good solution for me as I get more serious withe the HPDEs.

 

[Whiskey11]

Wait....what?! I swear I looked at their bars and decided to pass as they looked quite permanent & the MM at least looked to leave the rear seats somewhat usable. You have my attention. Post on your install & thoughts. This may be a good solution for me as I get more serious withe the HPDEs.

Having rear passengers with a harness bar, or cage or rollbar, is a horrible, horrible idea. Even padded, hitting the harness bar is going to hurt like an absolute bitch. About the only thing the rear seats are good for after installing a harnessbar, rollbar or a full cage, is putting stuff like your helmet or water bottles on.

 

[modernbeat]

For those comparing the Watson and Maximum bars, I would look at the mounting feet and positions of those different bars before making a decision. I'm not a fan of this Watson part and think that the Maximum bar is a much better safety product with minimal modifications to the car.

It is true that you have to modify the tub and back seat trim panels to install the Maximum bar, but the bar can be removed and the panels replaced, leaving the interior looking unmodified.

But if you only want a rollbar to satisfy the minimum requirements of a rulebook, or to look racy on the street, then safety is not your primary concern.

 

[AutoXRacer]

How is the Watson bar less safe than the MM??

Here are the install directions for WR: http://www.watsonracing.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/WR-4-POINT-ROLL-BAR.pdf

Install directions for MM: http://www.maximummotorsports.com/content/install/pdf/rollbars/Mm5RB-20-1_20-6.pdf

Remember, this is not intended for an all out race car that will see competition racing.
This is meant for your track day enthusiast that just wants to enjoy his car around the track.

Both bars mount in the same exact spot in the front (using the gussets). The difference comes in with the rear legs. MM I believe attaches to the rear wheel wells while WR attaches to the reinforced shelf area right behind the rear seats.

What are the concerns with the WR setup?

 

[claudermilk]

Having rear passengers with a harness bar, or cage or rollbar, is a horrible, horrible idea. Even padded, hitting the harness bar is going to hurt like an absolute bitch. About the only thing the rear seats are good for after installing a harnessbar, rollbar or a full cage, is putting stuff like your helmet or water bottles on.

Yes, exactly. This is why a) I haven't done anything yet, and b) am looking at options where I can throw it in before an event and remove it after.

The main hoop appears to mount in the same place as the MM bar, which all my reading so far and logic tell me is the right place.

I do wonder about the landing point on the rear bars. That said, the main difference in the two seems to be location. MM is out on the wheel wells, the Watson more inboard. Other than that, they appear to be more similar than different. I may be missing something I am just now aware of here. Neither has the issues mentioned elsewhere on the CoolTech design with the bent rear tubes landing on a cross bar.

For me right now, this is all theoretical as I mull my options. I probably won't be getting these parts for a while yet.

 

[csamsh]

The Watson Bar looks like it has much less substantial mounting plates for the main hoop than the MM bar does.

 

[claudermilk]

From looking at the two, the main difference I see in the product shots is the MM bar replaces the entire OEM gusset plate with its own, while the Watson one retains it & simply bolts through.

I did think that the Watson one could extend a bit more down towards the middle of the car & center the bar up on the plate better. However, I didn't get the "holy crap, that looks way too small" reaction like when I first looked at the Autopower bar product shots.

 

[modernbeat]

...Remember, this is not intended for an all out race car that will see competition racing.
This is meant for your track day enthusiast that just wants to enjoy his car around the track...

An all out race car will have a welded in cage.

If you are a track day or time trial enthusiast and want safety, you should evaluate the bar on safety and utility first. Then evaluate it on ease of installation, appearance, and cost.

 

[AutoXRacer]

From looking at the two, the main difference I see in the product shots is the MM bar replaces the entire OEM gusset plate with its own, while the Watson one retains it & simply bolts through.

I did think that the Watson one could extend a bit more down towards the middle of the car & center the bar up on the plate better. However, I didn't get the "holy crap, that looks way too small" reaction like when I first looked at the Autopower bar product shots.

My explanation of the WR setup was that the reason they did not replace the gusset plate was do to the fact that Ford did extensive designing on their gusset plate. I don't recall the load testing I was quoted, but if I remember correctly it was in the 3,000 lb instant load something or other. Anyway, WR felt the OEM gusset was sufficiently engineered to use as a mounting point instead of recreating the wheel.

The reason WR shifted the bar further AFT (rear) was to provide full travel of the front seats as it was designed for a dual purpose vehicle (daily driver).

I have to state I am not an expert on this WR bar. I just ordered it because I was given amazing reviews by owners of this product and I felt comfortable with the design concept from WR when I briefly spoke with them.

 

[AutoXRacer]

An all out race car will have a welded in cage.

If you are a track day or time trial enthusiast and want safety, you should evaluate the bar on safety and utility first. Then evaluate it on ease of installation, appearance, and cost.

Damn, you're now making me doubt my purchase.

 

[modernbeat]

The WR bar definitely has it's selling points. Better safety than competing products is not one of them.

 

[JesseW.]

will the MM bar meet the SCCA Time trial roll bar rule of being 6 inches or less from the back of the helmet? there are a couple of time trials and hill climbs I'd like to try and I'm not sure it does.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

will the MM bar meet the SCCA Time trial roll bar rule of being 6 inches or less from the back of the helmet? there are a couple of time trials and hill climbs I'd like to try and I'm not sure it does.

Yes, the MM roll bar should be as far back as any cage or properly designed 4-point roll bar.

 

[JesseW.]

thanks terry, i talked a local scca tech guy and he was concerned about that when i showed him pictures where the roll bar was in relation to the seat. the rule reads that the helmet must be 2 inches below the top of the hoop and the hoop no more than 6 inches behind the driver.

when are you gonna post the pictures of the new rear flares?