Bridgestone RE-11s feel sloppy?

[noldevin]

Hey everyone. I recently made the switch to my new tire setup and I am not getting the precise feel that everyone says you get out of RE11s. I haven't had the chance to track them yet so this is all street testing.

They feel like a soft sidewall tire like a winter tire or drag radial, and the car seems to lag a half second or so behind the steering wheel on initial turn-in. Once the car settles into the turn it feels very grippy but that initial lag doesn't promote confidence.

I am coming from 275/40/19 MPSS on 19x9.5 wheels. The MPSS felt nimble and precise. I am running BMR handling springs with Koni yellows (about 1/2 stiff in front, 1/4 stiff in rear), as well as bmr control arms and relo brackets.
I am now on 285/35 RE11s on a 19x10 wheel, with a 3mm spacer up front to clear brakes.

I've tried a few different cold tire pressures (30, 32, 35, 38). They seem to like the lower 30s best, but it doesn't solve the lazy feeling.
I don't know if its pressure related, break-in related, body-roll related, or what. Has anyone else noticed this when switching to an RE11 or other extreme summer tire?

 

[Thenorm]

i noticed a little bit of that running RE71R at lower pressures. but i'v crammed a 285 wide on a 9" wheel, so i expected some slop. for autocross i run the pressure higher 38f 34R

 

[noldevin]

You're running 38/34 cold or hot?
I've tried 30, 32, and 35 cold so far and they all feel about the same.

 

[2013DIBGT]

I'm running 275x40x18 RE-11 on a 18x10 rim. I also run the tires at 32psi Cold. I cant say I feel the same sensation you are reporting with the RE-11's and have been very happy with them in all driving situations. My only gripe is that they don't make a wider version for my rim.

Not to state the obvious but the RE-11 is a stickier tire than the PSS so it's possible that you may be now noticing a Spring/Shock setting or Rate that is too soft for your driving style while using the new tire on the car.

 

[noldevin]

So I just tightened up all the Konis to about a half a turn below full stiff in front and a full turn below in back.
The car feels much tighter and better on turn-in but still not quite perfect. But now bumps are significantly harsh

I think I need better shocks to handle the sticky tires and stiffer BMR handling springs.
That or maybe a stiffer front swaybar, or both.

 

[Thenorm]

You're running 38/34 cold or hot?
I've tried 30, 32, and 35 cold so far and they all feel about the same.

38/34 hot

 

[2013DIBGT]

So I just tightened up all the Konis to about a half a turn below full stiff in front and a full turn below in back.
The car feels much tighter and better on turn-in but still not quite perfect. But now bumps are significantly harsh

I think I need better shocks to handle the sticky tires and stiffer BMR handling springs.
That or maybe a stiffer front swaybar, or both.

I would say your shocks are more than adequte but those springs are certainly on the softer side in terms of their Rate. Steeda 200lb/in None Progressive style springs up front along with their 175lb/in rears would be a good alternative IMO.

Shameless Plug... I have an unused pair sitting here I would like to unload if your interested. I ordered them way back when for my 2013GT but went a different route before using them

 

[noldevin]

I would say your shocks are more than adequte but those springs are certainly on the softer side in terms of their Rate. Steeda 200lb/in None Progressive style springs up front along with their 175lb/in rears would be a good alternative IMO.

Shameless Plug... I have an unused pair sitting here I would like to unload if your interested. I ordered them way back when for my 2013GT but went a different route before using them

The BMR handling springs are actually quite a bit stiffer than the Steeda springs. They are 240F/200R

 

[2013DIBGT]

The BMR handling springs are actually quite a bit stiffer than the Steeda springs. They are 240F/200R

I took a look at their springs and see they say they are Linear springs in the front but the shape looks Progressive to me.

Maybe BMR can better explain how this is achieved. If they are indeed Linear and a true 240lb/in Rate at all times then I suppose the Steeda won't help then in this case.

 

[noldevin]

I took a look at their springs and see they say they are Linear springs in the front but the shape looks Progressive to me.

Maybe BMR can better explain how this is achieved. If they are indeed Linear and a true 240lb/in Rate at all times then I suppose the Steeda won't help then in this case.

If they say they're linear i trust it. Spring rate would come mostly from the coil thickness, not shape. And they are uniform thickness as far as i could tell while installing them.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Spring rate is also dependent on mean coil diameter and sort of indirectly on coil spacing.

BMR's site isn't responding at the moment, but at least some of their rear springs - including those billed as "handling springs" - have a few closely spaced coils at one end. That makes them technically a dual-rate spring, which is sometimes advertised as "progressive" because it sounds better that way to those who don't understand anything about springs past "I wanna lower my car".

But when the closely spaced coils are all closed up at the car's ride height at rest and for maybe an inch higher than that, the spring will behave like a single-rate linear spring over most of their working range. BMR's rear springs are like that (I have the slightly stiffer 260f/220r GT500 handling springs on my car), and a few years ago I was told that the Vogtland springs were like that as well. Can't comment about this for anybody else's springs, though.


Norm

 

[Speedboosted]

Spring rate is also dependent on mean coil diameter and sort of indirectly on coil spacing.

BMR's site isn't responding at the moment, but at least some of their rear springs - including those billed as "handling springs" - have a few closely spaced coils at one end. That makes them technically a dual-rate spring, which is sometimes advertised as "progressive" because it sounds better that way to those who don't understand anything about springs past "I wanna lower my car".

But when the closely spaced coils are all closed up at the car's ride height at rest and for maybe an inch higher than that, the spring will behave like a single-rate linear spring over most of their working range. BMR's rear springs are like that (I have the slightly stiffer 260f/220r GT500 handling springs on my car), and a few years ago I was told that the Vogtland springs were like that as well. Can't comment about this for anybody else's springs, though.


Norm

My H&R Race springs seem to be like that as well. I've heard the rates on those are 325/285. The rear certainly feels like it's too stiff but I like the rate up front. Ride is awesome when paired with the Bilsteins.

 

[noldevin]

Well the stiffer settings on the Konis seems to have solved it. I guess it was more body movement due to better tires. But the ride kinda sucks now. So the question is...
Swap to Bilsteins? Or upgrade the front swaybar to stiffen things up some so I can lower the Konis back to where they were more comfortable?

 

[Norm Peterson]

Keep tinkering with the Konis first. You should be noticing eighth-turn changes.

Make yourself one of these things to make adjustments easier and smaller than quarter turns a little more repeatable. Just don't crank the adjusting pins too hard against the stops with the extra leverage.

Norm

 

[Speedboosted]

So the question is...
Swap to Bilsteins?

Yes. Yes. Yes.

 

[2013DIBGT]

Well the stiffer settings on the Konis seems to have solved it. I guess it was more body movement due to better tires. But the ride kinda sucks now. So the question is...
Swap to Bilsteins? Or upgrade the front swaybar to stiffen things up some so I can lower the Konis back to where they were more comfortable?

Which FSB and RSB are you using now?

If stock for both then a good option would be the Eibach adjustable FSB unit. The middle hole on that bar is just slightly stiffer than the factory GT with Brembo Package FSB is. Probably best to leave the RSB alone for now assuming its stock.

Depending on your Front/Rear car balance preference you may need to go full stiff on the Eibach FSB while using the factory RSB, which in my opinion, is way too stiff already and leaves the car as an Oversteering mess.

I myself prefer to keep the swaybar stiffness to a minimum and use stiffer springs instead since overly stiff bars tend to also increase harshness as well as not allowing the car to rotate and move as freely as it needs to which can be the case when both stiff springs and stiff bars are used together.

I was able to find an ideal balance when using the Eibach FSB on its middle hole setting combined with an 18mm RSB off a V6 Mustang Convert. Bare in mind though that this is with 425lb Fr Spings & 225lb Rear Springs.

 

[noldevin]

I have the stock track pack front and rear bars currently. I was and still am generally pretty happy with the balance of the car. But now with the stickier tires with harder sidewalls it feels like the chassis can't keep up with the tire.
Cranking up the konis did wonders for that, but now the ride is awful.

So I guess at this point what I really need to do is figure out where to go with the suspension. I want to maintain decent street ride quality (stiff is fine, jarring and annoying is not). Debating if I should play with the sway bars, upgrade the dampers, or just wait and go for coilovers.

 

[2013DIBGT]

I have the stock track pack front and rear bars currently. I was and still am generally pretty happy with the balance of the car. But now with the stickier tires with harder sidewalls it feels like the chassis can't keep up with the tire.
Cranking up the konis did wonders for that, but now the ride is awful.

So I guess at this point what I really need to do is figure out where to go with the suspension. I want to maintain decent street ride quality (stiff is fine, jarring and annoying is not). Debating if I should play with the sway bars, upgrade the dampers, or just wait and go for coilovers.

I had Koni double adjustable Yellows for a while on my car. The DA struts allowed for softening the impact felt by sharp bumps but I think in this case the 35 sidewall tire isn't doing you any favors in that dept.

At this point it may be best to try and find a happy medium with the current struts and save for better coilovers. I highly recommend a DA coilover setup if you can swing it price wise when the time comes since the car is still street driven. I also much prefer a damper that uses "Clicks" for its adjustments since its easier to dial in small exacting doses of stiffness/softness. With the Koni's DA's when I had them, they still didn't use clicks so adjustment was very much a guessing game and I could never find the ideal setting because of it.

 

[noldevin]

The Konis felt fine near the middle of their adjustment, but the stickier tires overpower them I guess. Sounds like my best bet is just hold out till I can get some real coilovers.