Cam/Crank codes, please help!

[Alfiedagr8]

Phaser do make knocking noise when they are bad. But low oil pressure makes phaser knock also. Did u notice any phaser with discoloration?


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[michael.konor]

Phaser do make knocking noise when they are bad. But low oil pressure makes phaser knock also. Did u notice any phaser with discoloration?

Got a slight knocking myself that has increased in noise over the last two weeks. Damn...

 

[05stroker]

I'm still working on mine. I replaced the oil pump and solenoids. Now 75+ psi at start up & slowly drops to 35 as it idles down. I can rev it to 2k, and the pressure goes up to 75. However, as the temp gets higher, the pressure continues to drop. It drops to under 10 psi. At 2k rpms, it only goes up to about 50 psi. There is a steady tapping that sounds like it's coming from the front of the head on the passenger's side. After about, 10 minutes or so, the idle gets rough again, knocking & surging.

Oil leaking from the phaser? Please chime in.

Did you check the tensioner o'rings while you had it apart?

 

[300angryhorses]

I didn't notice any discoloration on the phasers or elsewhere in the engine. The gears on the old pump didn't look bad either. There was some sludge in the pan, corners of the top of the heads, and bottom corners of the tensioners.

I replaced the tensioners. The seal on one was torn toward the top. The other looked ok, but I figured that it was better to just replace them.

 

[Alfiedagr8]

Got a slight knocking myself that has increased in noise over the last two weeks. Damn...

To see it the knocking is caused by low oil pressure a quick check is. Have the Rpms were the knock is noticeable te most and then disconnect the solenoid. This will make the phaser go to full advanced since that's it's default position. If the noise goes away then check oil pressure.


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[michael.konor]

To see it the knocking is caused by low oil pressure a quick check is. Have the Rpms were the knock is noticeable te most and then disconnect the solenoid. This will make the phaser go to full advanced since that's it's default position. If the noise goes away then check oil pressure.

Now that's a bit of useful information. Thanks!

 

[Alfiedagr8]

I didn't notice any discoloration on the phasers or elsewhere in the engine. The gears on the old pump didn't look bad either. There was some sludge in the pan, corners of the top of the heads, and bottom corners of the tensioners.

I replaced the tensioners. The seal on one was torn toward the top. The other looked ok, but I figured that it was better to just replace them.

I have seen the oil pressure regulator stick sometimes. Also on Phasers they leak. Depending were they leak they may have signs of leaking. But you saw no discoloration. Does one phaser knock and not the other? Also check for crank endplay. Should have none. Did you pull some cam caps off to inspect?


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[300angryhorses]

I have seen the oil pressure regulator stick sometimes. Also on Phasers they leak. Depending were they leak they may have signs of leaking. But you saw no discoloration. Does one phaser knock and not the other? Also check for crank endplay. Should have none. Did you pull some cam caps off to inspect?
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Thanks again. It seems like the knock is on the passenger side, but no discoloration on either side.

I did notice some crank endplay, when I was pulling off and putting on the sprocket. What might that mean?

I haven't pulled the cam caps.

I did disconnect the solenoids after it was at operating temp, but it didn't change the idle or anything. I haven't gotten the p0021/0022 codes anymore either. I had 0340 once and 0011/0012 after i let it run with the solenoids disconnected.

When the engine really started knocking and banging, it was hard to tell whether it was stronger in one side or the other. I really just listened for a second or two and raced around to shut it down.

 

[300angryhorses]

The crank movement was forward and backward, not up and down. It was noticeable, probably 1/16th of an inch or less, but i'm just guessing at this point.

 

[Alfiedagr8]

If u can measure the movement.


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[300angryhorses]

Yeah, i just read a little about the potential consequences of crank movement, so I'll try to measure it.

 

[300angryhorses]

here are some pics:

I'll try to get some of the backsides of the phasers and the cams/heads.

 

[Alfiedagr8]

On the gerotor. Is the housing scorn? I see some scoring but hard to tell. Can you fell anything with your nail? The housing is as important to be grove free as the pump. I think you said you replaced it right? With housing and all?



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[300angryhorses]

I replaced it with a melling.

 

[300angryhorses]

I'm still working on mine. I replaced the oil pump and solenoids. Now 75+ psi at start up & slowly drops to 35 as it idles down. I can rev it to 2k, and the pressure goes up to 75. However, as the temp gets higher, the pressure continues to drop. It drops to under 10 psi. At 2k rpms, it only goes up to about 50 psi. There is a steady tapping that sounds like it's coming from the front of the head on the passenger's side. After about, 10 minutes or so, the idle gets rough again, knocking & surging.

Oil leaking from the phaser? Please chime in.

Now I've replaced the phasers, but the same issues are present. Again, sounds great for about 10 minutes after startup. Oil pressure then slowly drops to 10 lbs or less, & idle is intermittently rough with knocking/clatter on both sides. Evev at 4k rpms it only got to 60 psi.

 

[Alfiedagr8]

Have u measures your crank play yet?
Have u removed a cam
Cap
Off to inspect on each side?

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[300angryhorses]

Have u measures your crank play yet?
Have u removed a cam
Cap
Off to inspect on each side?

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When I had the chains off replacing the phasers, I pulled & pushed the crankshaft. Unfortunately, I didn't/don't have a dial indicator, but I would say that it was more than the .377 mm Ford spec. However, I need to pick up a dial indicator to test for sure.

I can see how crankshaft movement could lead to damage to many things, the oil pump for one, and I need to make sure that it is within specs. Are you thinking that this might be affecting the oil pressure and timing issue that I've been having?

Are you suggesting the front camshaft bearing cap? Or all of the caps?

 

[Alfiedagr8]

Any cam caps. Just do at least one on each side. See if you have scoring. If u do then that's no good. Also if you have crank movement then you would need to de a tear down of the motor if it's out of specs. Also if you had sludge build up. There could be a sign of wear. Too much wear can also cause low oil
Pressure. Souled lime u eliminated everything but the motor as being the route cause of the low oil pressure. The oil pump was complete right. Not just the gears. But the housing too was replaced ?


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[300angryhorses]

Any cam caps. Just do at least one on each side. See if you have scoring. If u do then that's no good. Also if you have crank movement then you would need to de a tear down of the motor if it's out of specs. Also if you had sludge build up. There could be a sign of wear. Too much wear can also cause low oil
Pressure. Souled lime u eliminated everything but the motor as being the route cause of the low oil pressure. The oil pump was complete right. Not just the gears. But the housing too was replaced ?

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Yeah, I replaced the whole pump with a new Melling 10340.

Alright, I'll check the caps & get a dial indicator for the crankshaft.

 

[300angryhorses]

I'm trying to figure out the oiling system info in the attached diagram and write-up and determine where I might be losing oil pressure when the car gets up to operating temp.

On page 2 of 4.6Engineoiling.pdf, it says that the pressure is reduced as it enters the cylinder head galleries through fixed serviceable orifices located at the upper part of the feed passages.
. Oil at the reduced pressure then feeds the camshaft journals, hydraulic lash adjusters, and primary and secondary timing chain tensioners.
. The VCT solenoids, VCT housings, phasers, & sprockets remain under pressure.
. The lobes and followers are lubricated by splash via valve train operation.

Even if parts are under reduced pressure, could there be excessive oil loss at an orifice etc. cause a substantial loss in pressure to the parts of the system under pressure?

Thanks.