Catch Can vs. Breathers?

[TzReddy]

What is a better/safer bet running either a catch can or running breathers on the valve covers as well as on the oil fill. I know about the smell and discharge as I have run the breathers but wanted to know if I am doing myself a disadvantage of not running a catch can?

 

[702GT]

I wouldn't say it's a disadvantage using a breather setup, just usually not as clean as an oil separator. Breathers also don't pull the shitty vapors out of the crank case like an oil separator will. But the bottom line is to relieve crank case pressure, and breathers get the job done. If you want the maximum effect, oil separator is the way to go.

 

[Sky Render]

I feel breathers are a sloppy solution, and they don't provide any positive ventilation of the crankcase.

There are a couple vendors that make excellent catch can setups. Check out Bob's Auto Sports.

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

In addition to Bob's autosports, UPR also offers an excellent catch can setup.. I've used UPR's 4 chamber catch can which also includes a one way inline check valve and after 2 years of use, there have been no issues with crankcase vapor oil getting past the PCV barb connectors at the intake manifold whatsoever..

I also used the Bob's autosports catch can in which I still have, but decided to try out the UPR 4 chamber can anyhow.. Although the Bob's can is an excellent oil separator.. IMHO the UPR 4 chamber can offers the better setup in preventing crankcase oil vapors from re-entering the crankcase via the intake manifold to begin with thanks to it's 4 chamber filtering design.. However you really can't go wrong with running either setup and don't think you would be disappointed with either the Bob's can or the UPR 4 chamber oil separator for that matter..

 

[07 Boss]

It's a trade off and subjective in which way people go. Breathers don't allow any of the oil mist or vapors back into your intake lowering octane and displacing proper air/fuel mix. The disadvantage is that many of these vapors may dissolve back into the oil, and thus, degrading it faster. I just change my oil more frequently. I've run breathers for 30+ years and always will.

 

[Juice]

I feel breathers are a sloppy solution, and they don't provide any positive ventilation of the crankcase.

There are a couple vendors that make excellent catch can setups. Check out Bob's Auto Sports.

Not pulling crank case vapors out of the crank case shortens oil life.
Breathers are not emissions legal to run (if that is a concern)

 

[NUTCASE]

Here are some of my thoughts on this:

First off I feel you only need a fancy catch can if you are routing PCV back to the intake. If PCV is vented to atmosphere you only need a basic can and a filter because the filter will catch a lot of the oil vapor then it will just drip back into the can. If your still worried about something put steel wool inside the can.

I also believe that you can run both breather and PCV to the same can. As a matter of fact if you ever see a guy with his breather running to the bottom of the can so it sucks the oil back into the motor I wouldn't jump on him for it. There engines that come from the factory like this that run for well over 100k miles. Its true that catch can oil contains water and is lower quality than what stayed in the crankcase, but I think a lot of people underestimate how tolerant an engine can be.

If you are sticking with a factory type setup I would stick with breather being before the TB and PCV being after. I would also put a sealed can on both sides.

Don't mix closed and open unless you are getting it tuned like that. i.e don't have the breather going to atmosphere and PCV going to the intake mani unless you have a tune to compensate for unmetered air in the intake mani.

Also, if you are running a very octane sensitive setup like nitrous you should really have both sides going to atmosphere and no oil going to intake whatsoever.

I also don't believe that you need breather and PCV on different sides of the motor. stagnant vapors is not that serious of an issue. There is always oil flowing through the motor, and that oil will always seek equilibrium. Further more whats important is the pressure in the crankcase, not the valvecovers.

 

[JeremyH]

What is a better/safer bet running either a catch can or running breathers on the valve covers as well as on the oil fill. I know about the smell and discharge as I have run the breathers but wanted to know if I am doing myself a disadvantage of not running a catch can?

Since I know the op has a turbo setup, the only way I have found to properly vent an oil fed 3v turbo setup properly without having drain issues from pressure backing up the from the oil pan into the drain line is to fully vent the crankcase be it breathers on the oil fill and covers or lines run to a vented can etc. Another key point to keep in mind. Its tricky to get a closed setup to work properly and not have oil back up and blow by in the chra under boost.

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

Here are some of my thoughts on this:

First off I feel you only need a fancy catch can if you are routing PCV back to the intake. If PCV is vented to atmosphere you only need a basic can and a filter because the filter will catch a lot of the oil vapor then it will just drip back into the can. If your still worried about something put steel wool inside the can.

I also believe that you can run both breather and PCV to the same can. As a matter of fact if you ever see a guy with his breather running to the bottom of the can so it sucks the oil back into the motor I wouldn't jump on him for it. There engines that come from the factory like this that run for well over 100k miles. Its true that catch can oil contains water and is lower quality than what stayed in the crankcase, but I think a lot of people underestimate how tolerant an engine can be.

If you are sticking with a factory type setup I would stick with breather being before the TB and PCV being after. I would also put a sealed can on both sides.

Don't mix closed and open unless you are getting it tuned like that. i.e don't have the breather going to atmosphere and PCV going to the intake mani unless you have a tune to compensate for unmetered air in the intake mani.

Also, if you are running a very octane sensitive setup like nitrous you should really have both sides going to atmosphere and no oil going to intake whatsoever.

I also don't believe that you need breather and PCV on different sides of the motor. stagnant vapors is not that serious of an issue. There is always oil flowing through the motor, and that oil will always seek equilibrium. Further more whats important is the pressure in the crankcase, not the valvecovers.

In response to your post.. When it comes to those fancy catch cans in which you refer to.. First off, not all of them route PCV blow by back into the intake, as it all depends on how well the filtering design of the can happens to be..

If the catch can's filtering design is poorly engineered, I don't care how much crankcase oil the can itself catches.. Without proper filtering materials such as stainless steel mesh, perforated SS disks, tubes ect. PCV blow by will still get past the barb connectors at the intake manifold and back into the crankcase itself to where the catch can isn't doing it's job for which it was intended and therefore is considered as completely useless..

As I mentioned in a previous post, the UPR 4 chamber catch can I've been running for over the past 2 years has been very effective in not only catching PCV blow by, but also preventing it from reaching the intake manifold for which a catch can is supposed to be designed for in the first place thanks to proper engineering of it's filtering design..

As for running breathers.. On the older 2005-10 4.6 3 valves, you have to completely disable the closed PCV setup by first cutting out the PCV tube housing inside the driver's side cam cover and then remove the PCV metering valve itself, otherwise the metering valve will not open without vacuum first being pulled from the crankcase via the intake manifold.. Once the valve has been removed, then it's required to cap off both the intake manifold and throttle body ports in order to complete the disabling process of the closed PCV setup..

Perhaps the 4 valve Coyotes are able to run both closed PCV and open breather setups as the Coyote uses a standard size PCV valve that can be easily removed from the passenger side cam cover port.. However on the older 4.6 3 valves, you either have to completely disable the closed PCV system altogether as mentioned in order to run an open breather setup or keep the closed system fully intact by running a sealed oil separator/catch can.. You cannot run both an open breather and closed PCV setup at the same time, it's either one or the other..

Prior to finding the right catch can setup with proper filtering design, I actually considered disabling the factory PCV system in favor of running an open breather setup, but was not willing to go through the hassle of having to cut open the PCV meter from inside the driver's side cam cover just in order to run open breathers.. I also considered the disadvantages of an open breather setup over concerns of shortening the life span of both valve and ring seals plus also having to change oil more often as well..

Therefore in the end, I decided that by keeping the closed PCV system fully intact with a sealed catch can that actually does it's job for which it was intended for to begin with was my best overall option for keeping crankcase blow by from re-entering the intake and combustion chamber..

 

[Riptide]

Running breathers lets you get lines out of the engine bay. They are cheaper. With a breather there is no way any oil whatsoever can make it into the intake.

Of the three on my car only the oil cap breather has ever had to come out for cleaning over easily 3000 miles now. How dirty they get is going to depend somewhat on how you drive the car. Beat the snot out of it all the time and they may need to be cleaned more often.

 

[06StangGT]

Brenspeed recommended the JLT 3 catch can for my Paxton H.O setup.

American muscle says the JLT 3 catch can is not recommended for F/I and they suggest a Moroso unit

What would you do in my case? I run the car kinda hard but only put maybe 3 thousand miles on the car a year.

 

[NUTCASE]

In response to your post.. When it comes to those fancy catch cans in which you refer to.. First off, not all of them route PCV blow by back into the intake, as it all depends on how well the filtering design of the can happens to be..

If the catch can's filtering design is poorly engineered, I don't care how much crankcase oil the can itself catches.. Without proper filtering materials such as stainless steel mesh, perforated SS disks, tubes ect. PCV blow by will still get past the barb connectors at the intake manifold and back into the crankcase itself to where the catch can isn't doing it's job for which it was intended and therefore is considered as completely useless..

As I mentioned in a previous post, the UPR 4 chamber catch can I've been running for over the past 2 years has been very effective in not only catching PCV blow by, but also preventing it from reaching the intake manifold for which a catch can is supposed to be designed for in the first place thanks to proper engineering of it's filtering design..

As for running breathers.. On the older 2005-10 4.6 3 valves, you have to completely disable the closed PCV setup by first cutting out the PCV tube housing inside the driver's side cam cover and then remove the PCV metering valve itself, otherwise the metering valve will not open without vacuum first being pulled from the crankcase via the intake manifold.. Once the valve has been removed, then it's required to cap off both the intake manifold and throttle body ports in order to complete the disabling process of the closed PCV setup..

Perhaps the 4 valve Coyotes are able to run both closed PCV and open breather setups as the Coyote uses a standard size PCV valve that can be easily removed from the passenger side cam cover port.. However on the older 4.6 3 valves, you either have to completely disable the closed PCV system altogether as mentioned in order to run an open breather setup or keep the closed system fully intact by running a sealed oil separator/catch can.. You cannot run both an open breather and closed PCV setup at the same time, it's either one or the other..

Prior to finding the right catch can setup with proper filtering design, I actually considered disabling the factory PCV system in favor of running an open breather setup, but was not willing to go through the hassle of having to cut open the PCV meter from inside the driver's side cam cover just in order to run open breathers.. I also considered the disadvantages of an open breather setup over concerns of shortening the life span of both valve and ring seals plus also having to change oil more often as well..

Therefore in the end, I decided that by keeping the closed PCV system fully intact with a sealed catch can that actually does it's job for which it was intended for to begin with was my best overall option for keeping crankcase blow by from re-entering the intake and combustion chamber..

The setup on my 3v was just a filter on the breather side and a fancy can running PCV back to the intake manifold. I just tuned around it and everything was fine. My next step was going to be to take PCV out of the intake and send it to a can but then I sold the car.

I ran the piss out of that setup with nitrous for a long time to.

The job of a closed PCV system is to be emissions compliant. If thats your goal, kudos. It does nothing to extend the life of your oil. Most people who would over analyze a catch can on a street motor probably change their oil to often anyway. There is a filter on your intake just like there is a filter on a breather. Whether you choose to run metal, cotton, or paper will dictate your actual filtering. Also once those filters get some oil vapor on them they filter better.

I didn't mean for anything to come off as attacking or "your wrong because". I just wanted to dispense some information that was the result of countless project cars and researching.

 

[Heaten m90]

I'm going to run an electric vacuum pump to a racor catch/return with my turbo setup. maintaining 8-11 in WC suction is the difficult part, as excessive suction can cause cylinder wall/piston lubercation issues. However properly setup you can see anywhere from 10-40 HP increases. On a non modular application, i saw a Big block gain 43 HP in the test cell from just adding a vacuum pump. This inspired me to run a similar system on my engine. I dont have it fully worked out though.

 

[NUTCASE]

I have always wanted to do that, but I keep hearing those suction pumps don't live long because they get all gummed up.

 

[Heaten m90]

I have always wanted to do that, but I keep hearing those suction pumps don't live long because they get all gummed up.

This is correct, especially with e85. But with regulator maintenance i think you can stay on top of it. short drive cycles play a part in issues as well.

 

[retfr8flyr]

On a blow through FI setup, either supercharger or turbo, you have an extremely difficult time setting up a PCV/Breather system. I spent a lot of time and trails getting to my current system but it works well now. I run the stock PCV line to a catch can, with the addition of a KrankVent valve http://www.et-performance.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=96 to handle the pressure under boost. I run the Krankvent between the catch can and the intake manifold, set to flow from the cam cover to the intake. This allows the vacuum to pull from the engine but it's clean going into the manifold and keeps boost pressure from entering the cam cover. I have an AN #10 bung welded into the drivers side cam cover and I run a line from this fitting, with the large KrankVent valve in it, to a breather catch can, set to flow from the cam cover. This keeps vacuum from drawing air in but allows excess pressure when under boost to exit. I run the line from the pass side cam cover to the same breather catch can. This setup does allow unmetered air into the engine but with a blow through setup I haven't found any way to prevent this. The umnetered air is very slight and my tuner just tunes around it. This is the only setup that works with my twin turbos. I have tried many other setups and at times had so much crankcase pressure that the dipstick would be blown out the tube.

 

[Riptide]

My setup. Nice and clean.

 

[JeremyH]

I'm going to run an electric vacuum pump to a racor catch/return with my turbo setup. maintaining 8-11 in WC suction is the difficult part, as excessive suction can cause cylinder wall/piston lubercation issues. However properly setup you can see anywhere from 10-40 HP increases. On a non modular application, i saw a Big block gain 43 HP in the test cell from just adding a vacuum pump. This inspired me to run a similar system on my engine. I dont have it fully worked out though.

This isn't an older spec large displacement motor with large case volume and loose tolerances. In short don't even think about trying to put vac with a pump like that on these motors or, you will jack up top end oiling and start toasting stuff in the heads let alone ring issues and your not gonna gain any hp, that's not a thing with modern motor clearances and ring gaps. There is not enough volume in the case its not designed to see vacuum like that. Hence the use of pcv, Positive ventilation. You either vent it to atmosphere or allow the blowby to be pulled back into your intake. The pcv protects the crankcase from vacuum, much like a racor ccv setup that uses a regulator valve to protect the case from excessive vac as well. If the oem designed it for pcv don't use a pump to throw vac in the case.

 

[Heaten m90]

I see what you're saying, i was just concerned because i cant run the PCV with my setup.


Why Negative Crankcase Pressure?

Creating negative pressure in the crankcase has many benefits that help increase horsepower. Moroso’s Hall has a deep understanding of boosted engines, as he races a blown alcohol Top Dragster in the NHRA. Hall believes there’s always power to be made with crankcase vacuum control.

Says Hall, “The vacuum pump has a place on these engines — we have the ability now with better ring packages, hone packages and better blocks, so we can make more vacuum. We now see a 2-4% horsepower gain with vacuum pump systems, and we’ve seen it on everything from a small four cylinders to a 903 cubic inch nitrous Pro Mod motors. It seems like it’s the same number no matter what you do, and no matter which combination, as long as the system is designed properly and maintained.”

One of the major advantages of a crankcase vacuum control system is the ability to run a higher efficiency, lower friction ring stack. Total Seal makes a variety of ring thicknesses and tensions to accommodate every racer’s needs.
One of the major advantages of a crankcase vacuum control system is the ability to run a higher efficiency, lower friction ring stack. Total Seal makes a variety of ring thicknesses and tensions to accommodate every racer’s needs.
So how does crankcase vacuum create horsepower? It’s a combination of many small changes, starting with the rings. A vacuum pump will create negative pressure in the crankcase, and that negative pressure will remove air mass and create less atmosphere on the bottom side of the rings, creating a more stable environment. This environment change has allowed engine builders to reduce the size and tension of the ring stack; creating less friction, less heat, and less power being robbed from the combustion process. Better ring seal is a nice advantage too.

“There’s power in pulling vacuum on the engine, in two ways; it relieves pressure underneath the piston, and it lets you reduce the oil ring tension, and that frees up friction,” says Judson Massingill. “The oil ring itself is one of the major points of friction in an engine.”

We now see a 2-4% horsepower gain with vacuum pump systems, we have seen it on everything from a small 4 cylinder to a 903” Nitrous Promod engine. – Scott Hall
Oil control is an equally important reason to consider crankcase vacuum control as a viable option for boosted engines. Without proper oiling, a boosted engine making seven horsepower per cubic inch would never be possible. Oil, clean of debris and air, is an engine’s first line of defense against heat, friction, and wear. Mike Morton feels strongly about maximizing the oil control of any engine, especially one with as harsh of an environment inside the crankcase as a boosted engine.
“Anything you can do to keep the oil where you want it, near the pump pickup and getting back to the oil tank, is going to help you. De-aerated oil lubricates better than oil that has a ton air whipped into it. A crankcase is theorized to contain hurricane force winds at high engine RPM, so anything that can be done to take the air out of there is going to aid in oil control,” explains Morten.


The Hold Up

Mike Janis, owner of Jan-Cen Racing Engines, is an accomplished NHRA Pro Mod blown alcohol racers. Janis collected 2 NHRA Pro Mod championships with his blown alcohol racecar. He is one of the frontrunners bringing crankcase vacuum control to the ranks of Blown Alcohol drag racing, utilizing a GZ Motorsports Super Pro VP104 vacuum pump to evacuate the crankcase.
Mike Janis, owner of Jan-Cen Racing Engines, is an accomplished NHRA Pro Mod blown alcohol racers. Janis collected 2 NHRA Pro Mod championships with his blown alcohol racecar. He is one of the frontrunners bringing crankcase vacuum control to the ranks of Blown Alcohol drag racing, utilizing a GZ Motorsports Super Pro VP104 vacuum pump to evacuate the crankcase.
With major advantages to running crankcase vacuum in a boosted engine, there’s not been wide-scale adoption within the ranks. Boosted engine racers have made so much more horsepower than their competitors, that finding a little more horsepower hasn’t been on the top of the list. Focusing energy and financial resources on finding a bigger supercharger or turbocharger to make big horsepower gains, or working on the chassis or the drivetrain has been more common in the past and present.

In today’s climate, the chassis are working phenomenally well, supercharger and turbocharger size is being restricted, and nitrous racers have been making big advances in power (and getting to take weight off the cars). Boosted racers are noticing the smaller things are starting to count.

The business end of NHRA Pro Modified racer Mike Janis' supercharged Camaro, with the vacuum pump shown at engine-left.
The business end of NHRA Pro Modified racer Mike Janis’ supercharged Camaro, with the vacuum pump shown at engine-left.
So what’s the hold up?

Total Seal’s Jones lays it on the supercharged culture of ‘more boost can fix it all’. “The blower world today has a tendency to do things as they have for 30 years. There’s no stone unturned in Pro Stock, Competition Eliminator, and Nitrous Pro Mod engine programs. But you have to run a blower program like you’re running a top-tier Comp Eliminator engine.”

It takes a lot of determination and manpower to operate a Pro Stock-like engine program, where vacuum system technology has been advancing for forty plus years. Nitrous engines have benefited a great deal from the Pro Stock technological revolution, taking the R&D of the naturally aspirated teams and applying it to their nitrous gulping mountain motors. Is there a path forward for the boosted racers similar to what the nitrous and naturally aspirated teams have gained from Pro Stock? Or is there even a reason to add the complexity of a vacuum system to a boosted engine?

Data Logging
racepak_sportsman_data_logger_v_net_channels
Using a data acquisition system with crankcase vacuum measuring capabilities, in conjunction with a crankcase vacuum control system, allows the racer or engine tuner to keep an eye on overall engine health. Monitoring vacuum levels throughout a run can shows areas where the tuneup is not correct, looking for jagged areas in the run log can show points where the engine is detonating and fluttering the rings.

Prominent west coast engine builder Jason Pettis has a more unique reason why naturally aspirated and nitrous engines have more broadly adopted crankcase vacuum control systems.
“The major gain with vacuum pumps comes from sealing the top ring better on the intake stroke, pulling more air and fuel in with better ring seal, which allows for a bigger charge to be burned and making more power. Because a boosted engine doesn’t rely as heavily on vacuum to fill the cylinders, the horsepower gains will be smaller.”

Pettis followed up, clarifying the gains: “When every horsepower counts, especially in limited power adder applications, crankcase vacuum will make more horsepower. Even if it’s only a little more, it is more.”

Vacuum Achieved

Making crankcase vacuum on a boosted engine is harder than making crankcase vacuum with a nitrous or naturally aspirated engine. The average cylinder pressure on a boosted engine is much higher, causing more combustion gasses to escape past the rings and into the crankcase (blow-by). When this volume of air is higher, the vacuum system has to work harder to remove all of the combustion gasses from the crankcase. There are two types of pumps used to remove these unwanted combustion gasses: vane-type vacuum pumps and dry sump oil pumps. They each have their pros and cons, and should be used together for best results.

Chris Alston’s Chassisworks innovative supercharger drive system has taken the hassle out of mounting a vacuum pump to a centrifugal supercharged engine, with an almost unlimited amount of ways to belt drive crucial accessories. The Mororo vacuum pump attached to the side of the supercharger drive blends right in.
Chris Alston’s Chassisworks’ innovative supercharger drive system has taken the hassle out of mounting a vacuum pump to a centrifugal supercharged engine, with an almost unlimited amount of ways to belt drive crucial accessories. The Mororo vacuum pump attached to the side of the supercharger drive blends right in.

Inside a GZ Motorsports VP104 Super Pro Vacuum Pump is a unique crankshaft assembly, made up of a billet steel hub, carbon fiber vanes (with some proprietary chemicals that make them yellow and more durable), and Rulon oil wipers; all working in harmony to keep the air moving through the case without the friction of the vanes being forced against the outside walls at high RPM. The design lends itself from many years of OE durability R&D, making this pump near bullet proof and maintenance free.
Inside a GZ Motorsports VP104 Super Pro Vacuum Pump is a unique crankshaft assembly, made up of a billet steel hub, carbon fiber vanes (with some proprietary chemicals that make them yellow and more durable), and Rulon oil wipers; all working in harmony to keep the air moving through the case without the friction of the vanes being forced against the outside walls at high RPM. The design lends itself from many years of OE durability R&D, making this pump near bullet proof and maintenance free.
Vane-type vacuum pumps, like the ones offered by GZ Motorsports or Moroso, use reciprocating flaps (vanes) to paddle the air through a cylindrical body to create a vacuum. Connecting the body to the engine results in combustion gasses being sucked out of the crankcase and forced in to a puke tank. Usually, vacuum pumps are a single stage with three or four vanes. These pumps are efficient at pulling air out of the engine, but have a difficult time pumping oil. Vacuum pumps are more suited to creating negative crankcase vacuum that dry sump pumps.

It’s not just the rings, it’s the whole package; pistons, rings, quality machine work to get the right cylinder finish, and a proper tuneup. – Keith Jones
A dry sump pump’s first priority is engine oil pressure and windage control — acting as a crankcase vacuum control system is an important but secondary operation. With many configurations including size, style, and number of stackable sections, the racer or engine builder can choose exactly what’s right for the combination. One section of the dry sump pump is for engine oil pressure, the other 2-7 sections are scavenge sections, used to pull oil out of the engine and into a holding tank. The scavenge sections are meant to suck oil out of the engine, but also do a decent job at pulling air out of the crankcase. This is especially true for newer design lobe rotor dry sump pumps offered by Moroso, Peterson Fluid Systems, and Dailey Engineering. Older style scavenge sections using a gear rotor or spur gear design do not pump air as effectively as a lobe rotor pump.
The relationship between horsepower, boost and crankcase vacuum is easy to see in a Racepak data acquisition log from our in-house racecar, Blown Z. From the release of the transbrake to start the run, crankcase vacuum (blue line) moves closer to zero as boost (green line) and RPM (red line) start to climb. The vacuum levels off at five inches hg and holds for the remainder of the run as higher boost levels and horsepower is achieved. This 2,000+ HP supercharged small block is asking a lot out of its Daily Engineering 6 stage dry sump oil pump!
The relationship between horsepower, boost and crankcase vacuum is easy to see in a Racepak data acquisition log from our in-house racecar, BlownZ. From the release of the transbrake to start the run, crankcase vacuum (the blue line) moves closer to zero as boost (green line) and RPM (red line) start to climb. The vacuum levels off at five inches hg and holds for the remainder of the run as higher boost levels and horsepower is achieved. This 2,000+ HP supercharged small block is asking a lot out of its Daily Engineering six-stage dry sump oil pump!
An engine that’s sealed well to outside atmosphere and doesn’t produce excessive blow-by can get away with only a dry sump pump to pull negative crankcase pressure. Morten shared the importance of sealing the engine.

“The biggest thing is getting people to understand how important sealing their motor is; using double lips seals, good valvecover gaskets, and overall just trying to keep crankcase vacuum from pulling in outside air,” says Morten.

Zucco followed Morten’s sentiment, “We make a high flow, high suction vacuum pump; we want the pump working to remove unwanted exhaust gaskets from the crankcase. Pulling air past the valve cover gaskets and the china wall at the back of the manifold just makes the whole system inefficient. We recommend quality gaskets and extra attention to installation at all sealing points in the engine. Keeping the engine sealed to outside atmosphere is critical to the vacuum pump working properly.”


Our in-house race car, Project BlownZ, has a Dailey Engineering six-stage dry sump pump and no vacuum pump. BlownZ is making north of 2,000 horsepower and is able to maintain negative crankcase pressure for an entire seven-second ¼ mile pass.

Peterson Fluid Systems wanted to make packaging a vacuum pump into an external wet sump oiling system easier. Enter the Wide-VAC. The Wide-VAC is a 3-stage lobe rotor pump with a dual purpose. A single 1.4” front stage pumps oil from the pan to the engine for lubrication. Dual 2.4” rear stages pull air out of the engine to create a vacuum on the crankcase.
Peterson Fluid Systems wanted to make packaging a vacuum pump into an external wet sump oiling system easier. Enter the Wide-VAC. The Wide-VAC is a 3-stage lobe rotor pump with a dual purpose. A single 1.4” front stage pumps oil from the pan to the engine for lubrication. Dual 2.4” rear stages pull air out of the engine to create a vacuum on the crankcase.
Much thought went into BlownZ’s combination, and at the behest of Total Seal, a high tech low tension ring stack went into the engine, making it critical to evaluate and engineer everything to be better. Jones explains “It’s not just the rings, it’s the whole package; pistons, rings, quality machine work to get the right cylinder finish, and a proper tuneup. Rings: I make them flat, I make them round, I make them from the right material, but I can’t make the tuneup or the combination right.”

The last step is plumbing and packaging, as special care needs to be taken to build the combination with a crankcase vacuum control system in mind. Zucco reminds us of the pitfalls many fall into. “Pushing air through a line is much different than trying to draw it through. It’s much harder to suck the air through the same diameter line. A -10 braided hose is barely a half-inch wide on the inside — do you want to try and expel all those trapped exhaust gasses from the crankcase though a half-inch hose? I recommend a minimum hose and fitting size of -12 with higher flowing vacuum pumps.”

Supercharged racers have to figure out how to drive their supercharger off the crankshaft, as well as the vacuum pump and or dry sump. Turbocharged racer need to find a place to put everything, as it can get really crowded when the turbos are in front of the engine. NHRA-legal blown alcohol racers have an extra hurdle that adds to the complexity, as Hall explains: “to properly plumb up one of these systems, make it functional, and be NHRA-legal for blown alcohol, there’s a lot of plumbing going on. The blown engines have to have burn down tubes on the valve covers with minimum one-inch inside diameter, which have to be separate from the vacuum pump system. When you’re required to run a burn down tube system, you have to have a reliable and high-flowing check valve in the burn down tubes to act as a required safety relief. The vacuum pump can not and will not accept enough air to expel all the gasses from the crank case in the event of a total engine failure.”

Moroso vacuum pump picture caption - Moroso outfitted the 22642 "enhanced design" vacuum pump with a light weight 4 vane architecture and maintenance free precision roller bearings, making it versatile and efficient.
Moroso outfitted the 22642 “enhanced design” vacuum pump with a light weight four-vane architecture and maintenance free precision roller bearings, making it versatile and efficient.
Altogether, it’s nothing smart racers can’t handle. When something is worth doing, because it makes extra horsepower and improves the oiling system, it will eventually become mainstream. Do you really want to leave any power on the table?

If you want to win in 2014, keep doing what you’re doing; if you want to prepare for the evolution of supercharged and turbocharged engine performance, you need to get in front of the pack and start working with a vacuum control system that will help you make more horsepower and keep the oiling system happier.

“Good enough is not good enough; it has to be done right, what was good enough in 1965 is not now. We are in a time where 20 to 40 horsepower is the difference between winning and losing.” Jones could not have said it any better.

We took Keith Jones words to heart - Sneak Peak: We will be detailing GZ Motorsports’ biggest vacuum pump, the VP104 Super pro 33CFM Vacuum Pump. Look for a full technical review and installation on a twin turbocharged methanol burning small block in an upcoming Dragzine.com Tech Story.
We took Keith Jones words to heart – Sneak Peak: We will be detailing GZ Motorsports’ biggest vacuum pump, the VP104 Super pro 33CFM Vacuum Pump. Look for a full technical review and installation on a twin turbocharged methanol burning small block in an upcoming Dragzine.com Tech Story.

SOURCES
Moroso Performance Products
Phone: (203) 453-6571
Total Seal
Phone: (800) 874-2753
Peterson Fluid Systems
Phone: (800) 926-7867
School of Automotive Machinists
Phone: (713) 683-3817
Pettis Performance
Phone: (760) 244-4415
GZ Motorsports
Phone: (209) 296-3793
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[06 T-RED S/C GT]

The setup on my 3v was just a filter on the breather side and a fancy can running PCV back to the intake manifold. I just tuned around it and everything was fine. My next step was going to be to take PCV out of the intake and send it to a can but then I sold the car.

I ran the piss out of that setup with nitrous for a long time to.

The job of a closed PCV system is to be emissions compliant. If thats your goal, kudos. It does nothing to extend the life of your oil. Most people who would over analyze a catch can on a street motor probably change their oil to often anyway. There is a filter on your intake just like there is a filter on a breather. Whether you choose to run metal, cotton, or paper will dictate your actual filtering. Also once those filters get some oil vapor on them they filter better.

I didn't mean for anything to come off as attacking or "your wrong because". I just wanted to dispense some information that was the result of countless project cars and researching.

I never took your post as coming off as attacking or coming across as being wrong.. Personally I have nothing against running breathers at all.. My only concerns with them, is oil needs to be changed more often due to becoming contaminated in a shorter period of time, along with the crankcase smell and also didn't want to go through the hassle of having to uninstall the driver's side cam cover and then having to cut out the PCV meter from the housing tube or whatever it's called and then have to re-solder it back together..

Why Ford didn't just use a standard PCV valve on the 3 valve motors as they did on the pre 2005 models along with the current 5.0 Coyote 4 valves still leaves me scratching my head even to this day lol.

At any rate, there are no right or wrong answers regarding breathers or catch cans, as there's pros and cons to either one.. I will say that it took 2 different catch cans before finally coming across the right one that actually works in preventing crankcase oil vapors from entering the intake and back into the crankcase itself.. On the other hand however, perhaps it would've cost less money by just cutting out and removing the PCV valve meter from the driver's side cam cover over the cost of purchasing 2 catch can/oil separators in favor of running a couple of breather filters.. But after 2 years of running my current oil separator/catch can setup, I haven't any complaints nor negative issues at least so far anyhow